Rein: PC gaming has "shot by" consoles

[celery 8]

Celery you can buy a brand new XBOX360 for US$ 199.00 prices dropped about year and a half, where I can get a netbook for the same price?

Sigh. If you own a console, do you not have a PC in any case? Not buying a console and investing more in the quality of the PC would cost about the same or less.

[jblackrupert 14]

Celery you can buy a brand new XBOX360 for US$ 199.00 prices dropped about year and a half, where I can get a netbook for the same price

Best Buy

Futureshop

London Drugs

Walmart

Craigslist

Ebay

etc...etc....

And again. MS is selling Xbox's for $199 at a LOSS

They have to virtually give them away to get people to buy them.

It's like someone going to a store and buying a PC with foodstamps or mommy and daddy's money.

Edited July 13, 2011 by jblackrupert

[Mr. Charles 22]

What does the consumer care about Microsoft selling consoles at a loss?

[abs 2]

What does the consumer care about Microsoft selling consoles at a loss?

Because in theory they would then sell games at a higher price, because they now have you by the balls.

What has happened instead is that the price of PC games has risen to match their console counterparts. PC games ten to fifteen years ago at $59.99 were unheard of, and console games were more expensive than PC games.

Abs

[Tonci87 163]

Lets agree on this:

someone who spends lots if cash for hardware and likes to tweak his game to get the most FPS=enthusiast

Someone who spends his time playing a game to really master it=gamer

someone whu succeds in becoming realy good at playing a game=hardcoregamer or pro gamer

someone who works on mods or in the Editor instead of playing the game=hardcore modder

[ratoa 10]

Best Buy

Futureshop

London Drugs

Walmart

Craigslist

Ebay

etc...etc....

And again. MS is selling Xbox's for $199 at a LOSS

They have to virtually give them away to get people to buy them.

It's like someone going to a store and buying a PC with foodstamps or mommy and daddy's money.

netbooks at $199???? and I can play games like BBC2 or DAO?? can you point me out where I can get one of those please? please? please?

Edited July 13, 2011 by ratoa

[jblackrupert 14]

You asked about Netbooks for $199 Thats who sells them for $199.

Just because you can't get PC's that can play games at decent resolutions and FPS rates

for decent prices where YOU live doesn't mean they don't exist.

Again..... Xbox360, PS3 are sold BELOW the cost to manufacture, market and ship.

Also. MS is so desperate to get people buying their overpriced shitty console games

MS struck a deal with Best buy to give Xbox360's away for FREE with any purchase

of a Windows PC.

If you have to give your product away for free or below cost to get people to use it

means your product sucks.

[dmarkwick 261]

Because in theory they would then sell games at a higher price, because they now have you by the balls.

What has happened instead is that the price of PC games has risen to match their console counterparts. PC games ten to fifteen years ago at $59.99 were unheard of, and console games were more expensive than PC games.

Abs

I'm not sure that PC games' prices are following any console trend, when I first got my Amiga some 25 years ago I was buying games at £25. Today I get brand new PC games at £30. Brand new console games sell at £40, and the PC variants are almost always superior in content, performance and ability.

I think what we get as PC users is a slightly cut down developer's version. The PC variant games are most probably viewed as minor top-up sales by publishers.

---------- Post added at 11:16 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:25 AM ----------

You asked about Netbooks for $199 Thats who sells them for $199.

Just because you can't get PC's that can play games at decent resolutions and FPS rates

for decent prices where YOU live doesn't mean they don't exist.

I think it's a bit disingenuous to post out-of-context information that doesn't have any bearing. What notebook at $199 can play a game at any kind of performance? You might as well have posted prices of calculators.

If you have to give your product away for free or below cost to get people to use it

means your product sucks.

Hmm, no it doesn't. Doesn't follow at all. I mean, we (almost) all dislike consoles generally, but they're not shitty products.

[ricbar89 0]

You asked about Netbooks for $199 Thats who sells them for $199.

Just because you can't get PC's that can play games at decent resolutions and FPS rates

for decent prices where YOU live doesn't mean they don't exist.

Again..... Xbox360, PS3 are sold BELOW the cost to manufacture, market and ship.

Also. MS is so desperate to get people buying their overpriced shitty console games

MS struck a deal with Best buy to give Xbox360's away for FREE with any purchase

of a Windows PC.

If you have to give your product away for free or below cost to get people to use it

means your product sucks.

The problem is YOU seem to be in the minority here. You've made a claim (the cost of PCs specifically) that few seem to agree with. You've not backed it up and now retreated behind more claims everyone else seems to be living in a land where computers cost much more.

Again i welcome you to find a PC that can run modern games at decent resolutions and FPS rates for less than $280 CAD. I would be really interested to see it.

[jblackrupert 14]

I think it's a bit disingenuous to post out-of-context information that doesn't have any bearing. What notebook at $199 can play a game at any kind of performance? You might as well have posted prices of calculators.

He brought up Netbooks, not me.

He asked where you could get them for $199. I posted a list.

PC's that can handle games like Arma at reasonable framerates

so long as you don't go crazy with the settings can be had for

$500 or less at REAL computer stores and if you dig around places like Craigslist or local used sites.

Even a lowly Sempron with a 8800GT can handle Arma 2/Arrowhead

One of my systems is just that and I use it to play MP quit a lot.

Heavy use of AI in SP batter the CPU into submission but framerates are fine.

If consoles were sold at the prices it cost to make, promote and ship them

+ a little bit of profit on top of that then they would be the same price or more and you would be getting a LOT LESS.

The price argument for consoles is bogus. they are loss leaders.

Hmm, no it doesn't. Doesn't follow at all. I mean, we (almost) all dislike consoles generally, but they're not shitty products

The Atari 2600 was a console.

The Nintendo Wii is a console.

The PS3 and Xbox360 are just stripped down, propriatory hardware PC's.

that don't use Intel or AMD chips.

Remove the charity price of them and they have nothing to offer.

By the time they reach the end of their life and burn out console owners will have spent just as much or more then the guy who bought a decent mid-range PC

unless of course the console owner rented all of his games and stuck to single player to avoid the online fees.

Edited July 14, 2011 by jblackrupert

[maddogx 13]

The price argument for consoles is bogus. they are loss leaders.

A loss which is made up for with overpriced games, one might add. :)

[ricbar89 0]

He brought up Netbooks, not me.

He asked where you could get them for $199. I posted a list.

PC's that can handle games like Arma at reasonable framerates

so long as you don't go crazy with the settings can be had for

$500 or less at REAL computer stores and if you dig around places like Craigslist or local used sites.

Even a lowly Sempron with a 8800GT can handle Arma 2/Arrowhead

One of my systems is just that and I use it to play MP quit a lot.

Heavy use of AI in SP batter the CPU into submission but framerates are fine.

If consoles were sold at the prices it cost to make, promote and ship them

+ a little bit of profit on top of that then they would be the same price or more and you would be getting a LOT LESS.

The price argument for consoles is bogus. they are loss leaders.

Well you've totally backtracked from your original post now.

So there you have it. You cant actually get a decent PC for the same price or cheaper then a console.

[maddogx 13]

Well you've totally backtracked from your original post now.

So there you have it. You cant actually get a decent PC for the same price or cheaper then a console.

Total cost of ownership.

[JdB 151]

Edit: Ninja'ed by MadDogX :mad:

Let's say I just had a fire, and the entire place burned down. I have nothing left. What I personally would be looking for in my system has been taken into account. I can either base my entertainment around a PC or a console. I want to play modern games. I also need to play movies in HD, watch tv, do office work, browse the internet, do graphics work (Photoshop, 3DS Max etc), and download ... "other" content etc. The commonalities between the two are the need for electricity (although I would assume all of the separate appliances for the console would give a higher electricity bill), a digital tv subscription and an internet connection.

A PC of, let's say €800 is good enough to run most modern games on medium to high specs (depends a bit on the type of game obviously). I can also do all of the other things I need on it. It does require the purchase of a screen as well, and a basic keyboard and mouse. Let's say €250. Add a basic surround sound set of another €250.

Now I'm going to buy the latest, most advanced X-Box 360. It costs €250, and €350 if I want the Kinect as well. I also need to pay an additional fee besides my normal internet connection to access X-Box Live to be able to play online, it's €37,95 each year. Now I can play games, even online with my friends. Or can I? I still need a tv. I wouldn't buy the most expensive tv out there, €500 (including decent quality cables). Done? Nope. Right now I can't do office work, browse the internet or download "other" content. So I need a laptop, one with decent specs and screensize is €500. Oh, the X-Box 360 doesn't have a BluRay drive, so I need to buy a standalone BD player as well. I'm just getting a basic one, €125.

PC:

€1275

Console:

€1412-€1512 (and I haven't even got a home theater system for that money)

And consider that even if I already had a tv (-€500), or a good enough monitor and surround sound set (-€475), the games for the console would still cost slightly more, and the cost of X-Box Live also adds to the growing cost each year. Consoles are easier to operate, but not cheaper if you're looking at it as your one-appliance-fix for all your entertainment needs (and especially not if you want to do work and hobbies as well).

Edited July 14, 2011 by JdB

[ricbar89 0]

Yeah the problem with all this "total cost" it assumes you buy every game new and want all the crap equal to a PC, which maybe i would just buy a PC if i did. In fact its all based on assumptions. 99.8% (ok thats a guess) of people buying this stuff havent had their house burnt down. Who doesnt already own a TV? Or a PC that can do everything they need. Or even want a blueray. Or need the "most advanced xbox" (they're all about the same apart from HD which is barely an issue for most people).

I have an xbox. I never buy games at full price anyway, just like loads of people i know.

If i was to buy a PC, i would have to be spending more money on upgrades long before i ever recouped my savings from game prices. And more often then upgrading to a new console. So no JDB youre going to have to reduce the cost for consoles a lot more then just the cost of a TV.

The fact is you cant get a PC for the same price as a console or less. And you arent saving anywhere near as much on games unless you're running to the shops and buying every game brand new or buying more games then you healthily should.

[maddogx 13]

I have an xbox. I never buy games at full price anyway, just like loads of people i know.

Just out of curiosity, what are the newest games that you have? Do you only buy old ones or something?

[ricbar89 0]

Just out of curiosity, what are the newest games that you have? Do you only buy old ones or something?

Whats old on a console? Ive got "older" games then ive got never ones. I often get games a few months after they’re out as im rarely in a rush to play them, and im not spending £45 on them.

Plus consoles answer to directdownload services like steam is preowned. You can get games extremely cheaply at the cost of a potentially crappy box (or get lucky and have a perfect condition game) for half price.

[Innomadic 10]

CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo Q6600 2.4GHz

GPU: Nvidia GTS250

RAM: 3.8GB

HDD: 2x500GB

PSU: 800W

Motherboard: Something from 2008

Case: Nothing major, something small, probably under $50AU

That will play all new release multi-platform games equal to or better than any console (BFBC, SC, R6, GR, etc). That is also a 2008 Dell Inspiron with $200AU worth of upgrades (PSU/GPU). Right now that computer today is worth around $500AU or less (Cnet rated it at $525US in 2008), $100AU more than a 360s, cheaper games, no online fees and a better game experience in general. I can play Arma on this on medium to high settings between 20fps-30fps, Crysis on high with a solid 30fps with a few dips to 20fps. I can do all my general computing, video editing, image editing etc. The only thing i don't have is a 64bit version of windows, so i can't play DCS, but thats easy fixed, buy 64bit. I am currently using 32bit Windows XP.

My Console experience has wasted at least $700AU alone in terms of repairing my dodgy 20GB 1st gen 360, buying a slim because i wasn't prepared to take the risk of another RROD, XBL Gold payments and Microsoft points payments for DLC, the extra cost of console games in total when taking into account having to buy the online part of the game through XBL Gold, extra "DLC" that Arma 2 modders provide for free (don't think i don't appreciate it though, you guys are legendary).

Don't even try and convince me the Console option is cheaper. I have NOT got my moneys worth from console, i have from PC, and i don't give a damn of what you say. I spent more money on console and thats final.

-HOWEVER-

I still keep my console for the simple fact that not all games make their way to PC, Devil May Cry, Acecombat and Vanquish to name a few. Therefore my spending on individual games has decreased dramatically.

edit: Not all pre-owned games are cheap. I still see pre-owned 360 copies of OFP: DR for $70AU, almost as much as RR ffs. That is NOT a reliable way of getting cheap games.

Edited July 14, 2011 by Innomadic

[ricbar89 0]

In fairness as an Australian you're probably one of the few who can make that claim. Prices down under are not in line with most countries though, put simply you get screwed...

[Innomadic 10]

Then it should be even cheaper to get those parts elsewhere. Old PC tech that rivals old console tech is vastly superior and cheaper, and that is a fact.

[ricbar89 0]

PC's are not particularly more expensive in Aus/NZ while consoles and games on the other hand are renown there for their over the top prices due to export costs and a fairly small market in comparison in other parts of the world.

[katipo66 94]

Am I hating on consoles if I say that consoles aren't as cheap compared to PC gaming as some might think?

It was just a general observation from this thread and not directed at your comment, so just took the opportunity to comment with my 5c :)

[JdB 151]

99.8% (ok thats a guess) of people buying this stuff havent had their house burnt down. Who doesnt already own a TV? Or a PC that can do everything they need. Or even want a blueray. Or need the "most advanced xbox" (they're all about the same apart from HD which is barely an issue for most people).

You have to factor in that all of the appliances you use for your console to function like the PC cost money, saying not everyone has had their home burned down is just grasping at straws since you know perfectly well that I was using it as an example to refer to the situation where every piece of hardware has to be paid for. Whether you already have that tv (or any other part) or not, it has to be paid for at some point, and while using it, you are shortening the time until it breaks down.

[ricbar89 0]

You have to factor in that all of the appliances you use for your console to function like the PC cost money, saying not everyone has had their home burned down is just grasping at straws since you know perfectly well that I was using it as an example to refer to the situation where every piece of hardware has to be paid for. Whether you already have that tv (or any other part) or not, it has to be paid for at some point, and while using it, you are shortening the time until it breaks down.

Firstly like i already said why do i want my console to function like a PC? I have a PC for that. I just want it to play games.

Secondly ill buy a TV and use it whether i have a console or not, so no matter what or which way you look at it its got to be paid for anyway. You'll pick up appliances like these anyway so its not a real factor. Im not not going to buy a blueray because my PC can play them, nore am i going to have to buy one if i get a console...

Yeah and not thinking the house burnt down is a good example is grasping at straws? We Can disagree but i wouldnt call it grasping at straws.

[ratoa 10]

Even PC games retail prices are above the normal in AU

Anyway in my case I buy new releases maybe 2 months down the road for multiplatform games, amazon usually drop their prices from 10 to 20 bucks for a few days also I know console gaming is not perfect because I have to pay for online and I think that's BS but if you look around (just like PC gamers look through STEAM and buy those crappy and shitty giving away games for 7 bucks because they made a deal with VALVE so PC gaming stays alive) you can find a good deal, my last xbox live subscription cost me 30 bucks a few months ago

MadogX in my case I been slowing down my PC and console game purchases, the last 6 months I been using my mail gaming rental service for console releases I usually go through them in one weekend anyway but I usually get triple A releases 1 or 2 months down the road so I can play MP with my friends......on the PC side of the house I haven't bought anything since VBS2 last year and as you know that cost me quite a penny

btw my STEAM comment above was meant to be a joke but is not far from the true

Edited July 15, 2011 by ratoa