Problems when trying to fly with Auto Trim Off

[habnor 19]

Guess it dont work, there's the link


Shows on take off how chopper just immediately turns right with excessive
torque...

Things to note when watching this video.

1. I am a newb pilot.. But I have just spent 4-5 hours tweaking my controls to even get this bird off the ground and to stop it from spinning like a top...

I am heavy on the left rudder... When i finally fly straight I had to totally gain forward momentum somehow getting to tip the nose down.. it was pure luck that I got it started, and the first time i ever flu that straight so i guess there is hope...

2. When flying somewhat straight I am 85% left rudder and constantly pushing the nose down

3. My hand is hurting from massive force applied to my stick to counter for feedback from game

4. I have to constantly move rudders back and forth to fool the system i guess and not have my bird rotate totally on its right side.. but maintain 85% left rudder

Dunno what else to say, just want some advice, opinions, feedback, tips,
etc, as I don't want to fly with auto trim on :D

Collective feels very strange, i show you in game when warming up that my collective is setup and working right... Just seems like the feedback takes way to long to register in game, thus maybe why everyone complains they can't land soft... Surprised anyone can land at all, i sure cant...

---------- Post added at 05:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:18 PM ----------

yes i need serious help creating and converting videos too, sorry about the 240p. I record in fraps, and then dunno what to do to make it look good?!?! Edited July 9, 2011 by Foxhound

[Daniel 0]

Might be an idea to master the Arma 2 flight model first. It's very similar but less complex. Also I assume you used 3rd person for the sake of filming? It's much easier to fly from first person, Arma's 3rd person camera is far from ideal.

[sbsmac 0]

It would be worth checking your controller sensitivity (particularly rudder/pedals). Go to Options/Controls/Controller then choose the pedals and choose Customize. Then set the sensitivity on all axes to maximum.

[-DirTyDeeDs--Ziggy- 0]

we have a stickied video thread. please use that instead. thanks.

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=121441

I understand you are seeking help with the manual trim feature, but your thread title says to me - look at my video, and not - help me with this issue. ;)

Edited July 2, 2011 by [DirTyDeeDs]-Ziggy-

[habnor 19]

-Ziggy-;1971814']we have a stickied video thread. please use that instead. thanks.

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=121441

I understand you are seeking help with the manual trim feature' date=' but your thread title says to me - look at my video, and not - help me with this issue. ;)[/quote']

Seriously go away already Ziggy, if you have not noticed, no one likes you, and or so no one is going to listen. Mod consider Ziggy as trolling since he is very aware of what his is stating here and past problems with him trying to moderate this board..

---------- Post added at 06:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:18 PM ----------

It would be worth checking your controller sensitivity (particularly rudder/pedals). Go to Options/Controls/Controller then choose the pedals and choose Customize. Then set the sensitivity on all axes to maximum.

Not sensitivity related, its awesome and responds well in all features including tests.. Not to mention if you actually do edit controller in Arma 2 and have a X65F, you most certainly will crash after hitting OK. I have drivers that can control all that including dead space. The sensativity is easily tested using auto trim on.. So maybe if someone explained what auto trim in this game actually does, might give more insight and provide tips and suggestions :D

Definitely throttle related though...

[Daniel 0]

Auto-trim looks after your anti-torque rotor so you doin't have to worry about it as much. It basically makes flying less realistic but easier. It should definitely stop you spinning as much.

[habnor 19]

Might be an idea to master the Arma 2 flight model first. It's very similar but less complex. Also I assume you used 3rd person for the sake of filming? It's much easier to fly from first person, Arma's 3rd person camera is far from ideal.

I have been playing Since OPFP Days, I am very familiar with Arma 2 and flight.

Well for filming yes, but third person is really the only way you can get off the ground because you have no "REAL BODY FEELING" and can't notice you are tipping over when in cockpit like you can in 3rd person, 9/10 times its a crash and burn most of the time before getting 1" off the ground, although i do notice maybe I wasnt warmed up fully... I'll have to go back and replay as 1st person a few more times.

I wish I had recorded my first videos where i was spinning in circles like seriously 180 times per second... its that crazy of a torque to the right

---------- Post added at 06:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:25 PM ----------

Auto-trim looks after your anti-torque rotor so you doin't have to worry about it as much. It basically makes flying less realistic but easier. It should definitely stop you spinning as much.

Thanks, I mean a little bit more LOW LEVEL in SOFTWARE sort of speak :D

[Daniel 0]

I'd definitely recommend first person.

I am a newb pilot

Sorry, this made me think you hadn't done much Arma 2 flying, along with being a new forum member. In that case though, you should pick it up easily once you sort your torque problems, it's not dissimilar to Arma 2's flight model.

Thanks, I mean a little bit more LOW LEVEL in SOFTWARE sort of speak :D

Ah, might be better off waiting for a dev to answer that then. :p

[habnor 19]

No problem, thanks for the feedback, with learning what trim is and how to use it, I may get this bird soaring shortly.. going in to set my trim and see what happens ;D

[-DirTyDeeDs--Ziggy- 0]

Seriously go away already Ziggy, if you have not noticed, no one likes you, and or so no one is going to listen. Mod consider Ziggy as trolling since he is very aware of what his is stating here and past problems with him trying to moderate this board.

If you have something to say to me, take it to PM. Go ahead, cuss me out. your privates message wont be reported.

However, just because you may not agree with someones opinion doesn't mean you should try to shout them down with personal attacks, stating no one likes me, or will listen.

Any future topics or threads that directly attack me will be reported. :j:

[habnor 19]

-Ziggy-;1971871']If you have something to say to me' date=' take it to PM. Go ahead, cuss me out. your privates message wont be reported.

However, just because you may not agree with someones opinion doesn't mean you should try to shout them down with personal attacks, stating no one likes me, or will listen.

Any future topics or threads that directly attack me will be reported. :j:[/quote']

Report em all dude.. seriously you are of no power here and maybe its time you learned that.

---------- Post added at 06:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:46 PM ----------

OK, I figured it OUT!!! And I can tell the developers a tip to help fix it so newbs dont get started on the wrong path... The problem was answered by the guy who was helping explain the slow takeoff, that is the KEY!!! See, the problem was that the game instructed me to go FULL THROTTLE, so i would jam the stick all the way to full throttle... In joystick mode this I guess is EASIER than holding down Q for example.. and go much FASTER.. The text is what made me become a BAD PILOT.. if you slowly work the throttle to full, you will not OVERTORQUE and GO CRAZY.. and with a little bit of trim setting, I was able to actually complete this mission albeit i landed hard as heck... but i completed it with AUTO TRIM OFF.. I'm so excited hehe..

Thanks too all who inputted..

DEVS, i would suggest a change of game output text on the system saying to go "FULL THROTTLE" to something else, as newbs like me follow commands to the exact T :D

Or perhaps some code can alleviate too much generated torque because of the enhanced speed of going full throttle compared to what the arma game expects from its keyboard method

Edited July 2, 2011 by habnor

[sbsmac 0]

DEVS, i would suggest a change of game output text on the system saying to go "FULL THROTTLE" to something else

I think you are confusing _throttle_ with _collective_. The engine _should_ be at full-throttle (ie, producing maximum power) at take off. However. collective should most definitely applied smoothly. You may be confused because if you have a HOTAS, the controller which normally is the 'throttle' for aircraft is actually used to control the collective on helicopters.

[habnor 19]

I think you are confusing _throttle_ with _collective_. The engine _should_ be at full-throttle (ie, producing maximum power) at take off. However. collective should most definitely applied smoothly. You may be confused because if you have a HOTAS, the controller which normally is the 'throttle' for aircraft is actually used to control the collective on helicopters.

Ok, so in short, what I think is a command is just the game telling me I am at full throttle and ready to fly? Then indeed I think it should be better worded. e.g (Helicopter is now at Full Throttle)

In my setup,

I have no stick configured to add/reduce thrust, i only have applied stick to analog thrust and analog break... I assume that is correct way of this?

What about my toe rudders, should they be set to anything?

Edited July 2, 2011 by habnor

[EagleEye-GER- 0]

Ok, so in short, what I think is a command is just the game telling me I am at full throttle and ready to fly? Then indeed I think it should be better worded. e.g (Helicopter is now at Full Throttle)

Yes, could be better worded.

In my setup,

I have no stick configured to add/reduce thrust, i only have applied stick to analog thrust and analog break... I assume that is correct way of this?

Yeah, that`s the way.

What about my toe rudders, should they be set to anything?

Not that I am aware of.

[eddie247 10]

I have problems pitching forwards on the main rotor with my control pad leaving me only able to move forward with the mouse...

Problems being that it won't pitch forwards ( but will pitch backwards).

Manual trim corrects the torque effect from the main rotors if set to the right angle. Engage it when you are travelling forwards at your desired speed.

[4 IN 1 0]

Something tells me that you should understand helichopter as a general first...

[Angle 10]

Now with the latest preview my helicopter is violently rolling and rotating right as well as pitching down.

The only way i can stop it form going nose down in a spin is to push pedals max left and hold my joystick in the bottom left all the time. And that sort of makes it hard do do any other maneuver than going nose down in a spin.

Anyone know what I'm doing wrong. Flew fine last time.

Edited July 8, 2011 by Angle

[habnor 19]

Now with the latest preview my helicopter is violently rolling and rotating right as well as pitching down.

The only way i can stop it form going nose down in a spin is to push pedals max left and hold my joystick in the bottom left all the time. And that sort of makes it hard do do any other maneuver than going nose down in a spin.

Anyone know what I'm doing wrong. Flew fine last time.

From what I have learned Angle, you might be taking the copter to high cyclic too fast, try to find the right amount of thrust increase if using a throttle stick (please don't confuse throttle with in game throttle).. while applying left rudder is key to counter the torque, then set your trim when stable to put your pedals back to "normal" position...

Also check your version, to make sure you have the latest one... The older initial release seems to have more trouble than the latest one, unless you apply the weight reduction hack...

Edited July 9, 2011 by habnor

[Contra 10]

Thanks for the tips they helped allot.

Wait you banned him for that ?

WTF ??

Anyhow im my unexperenced opinion its defiantly a problem with the torque, if I understand correctly the tail rotor is supposed to prevent that, not pilot input.

Also id like to make a point, what is with the lift ? (this mod seems allot better), but in Vanilla ARMA the helos are retarded, I have to spend 20 minutes waiting for the aircraft to loose some altitude even with throttle to minimum. I'm trying to get my joystick to bind properly to the seagull up/down commands, but they wont stick.

I learned to fly with project reality for BF2, in that when I cut the throttle the aircraft actually stalls out and tilts backwards. there just seems to be way too much lift, or the aircraft models are way to light, they sway around too much, and don't seem to fall at all with gravity. this is also apparent when I tilt the helo 90' to the right or left, apart from flying somewhat sideways there is no effect on lift. In project reality when you tilt the craft 90' it falls, and fast.

the physics in this are much better, but they still suffer from this problem. Maybe you should look at changing the weight of the aircraft ?

Don't even get me started on the C-130, it must be made of styrofoam or something.

Edited July 11, 2011 by Contra

[Zipper5 74]

Thanks for the tips they helped allot.

Wait you banned him for that ?

WTF ??

Yes, because we ban people for being helpful. :icon_twisted:

More like for breaking the rules *cough*:

§18) No public discussion on how the forum is moderated

If you have questions/complaints/comments about the forum or moderators please PM them to a moderator, we will do our utmost to reply to any that we receive. If you have an issue that you feel cannot be solved by another moderator then please PM the head moderator (Placebo), he will be happy to look into the matter. You may also ask your questions in the "Ask a mod" thread; however that thread is not to be used to attack/rant against specific moderators or about specific rules but more for questions/answers.

[sjaba 19]

Hi there.

I seem to have the same problem ?/ (challenge?) with the chopper banking hard right when trying to fly level. Im using a thrustmaster hotas warthog as inputs and i have tried to customise the controls as best i can. Straigt after take off the chopper will start banking hard right as soon as i pick up speed.

To maintain level flight i need to add atleast 50% left bank to ensure straight flight. I have tried the rudder and setting trim, but that does not seem to be very much related.

Im a noob at TOH( as most would be i guess ;) ), however iv been flying choppers in the bis world since ofp so i assumed that i would get a hang of it rather quickely, but atm im struggeling to even get in the air without crashing..

[kylania 568]

Same here Sjaba! can't fly at all in TKOH anymore. What settings are you using for your Warthog, I have the same and haven't' managed to find a good controller setup for it.

[sjaba 19]

Hey Kylania

I have been fiddling about a bit more now, and firstly i found that changing from veteran mode to recruit kinda sorted the problem as a "hotfix":D. Flying stabile with no right banking at all in this mode (even completed the mission). Surely vetran mode should be harder then recruit, but then there must be a way to "prepare" your chopper for flight before take off or else in my case i have a 50% chance of survival of each flight...

However i also manged to get a slightly more stabile flight in vet mode by applying approx 60 - 70 % ish left rudder and manual set trim..But its very hard to tell what the right amount of trim is as there is no indicator..i wish i could use the trim hat switch on the Hotas :)

I set all my controls to pretty much default and im using the slew button as the rudder, its a bit "short" on the axis but untill i get my pedals that will have to do.

btw..when i have you here..cred goes out for your editing page and forum posts..been using them a lot in mission making..thx..

Edited July 11, 2011 by Sjaba

[twisted 128]

the total amount of trim is controlled by your collective (analogue throttle) as well as your pedals. i've found adjusting collective as well as pedals (i use a twisty joystick) gives me the control i need. it's about finding a balance and constantly adjusting it based on your current collective. but it's a helicopter so don't expect a set it and it stays stable kind of switch (well other than auto-trim on which is what lower difficulty settings give you)

[Tomek2708 10]

It all sounds very reasonable, but I can not imagine that any pilot is constantly pushing the flight stick to the left, because of the effects from the tailrotor.

I have to push my flightstick more than half of the way to the left, in order to keep my bird steady. That can't be that normal. I understand small inputs, but hanging at the flightstick doesn't seem that usual.

And pushing the pedal all the way down to prevent yaw, caused by torque?

The other thing is, that when I try to get in hover-mode with the hover-mode function, my own trimming causes the bird to drift in the direction I trimmed it before, so every time I have to release my trim and re-trim when I exit hover-mode and keep flying.

It feels like the axis are twisted and I can't imagine that this is the real behavour of a helicopter, even when the game is very realistic, and even when the tailrotor cause rolling.