Future insight ?

[OB1 10]

I hope this is an experiment into broadening the armaverse. As it is I cannot see TOH generating allot of interest as people looking for realistic simulation turn to DCS.. and I don't know many people that strive for just a semi realistic simulation..

Where I can see a place for TOH is in arma2 and future arma3. It would be great to have better modeled aircraft in arma and if they make it difficult enough to be more specialized, rewarding and it would separate the men from the boys instead of having every noob take off and converting near by building into helipads..:rolleyes:

[nethawk 10]

Why does noone see this as a standalone game?

I mean, look at it this way, this is a community preview, most of the features are not included yet, and from what I could gather it will play like SimCopter with a modern and realistic touch.

Now I don't know about you folks, but I know lot's of people (including myself), that would love to play that. Especially, because of Co-Op and Multiplayer, making this a truly one of a kind game.

The premise of flying civilian helicopters in a realistic (semi-realistic) setting and realistic/semi-realistic controls, and doing missions like extinguishing fires, finding lost people, high-sea rescue missions is intriguing and will probably result in a great game.

This said, I hope they include some of the stuff/technologies in Arma2/3. Still I think most people are underestimating the potential that this game has. There are literally dozens of arcade wanna be air-warfare games out there, but lately no-one dared to touch the civilian flight, as it's hard to create content for it.

my $0.02.

[Tonmeister 14]

...and dcs provides how many flight models to users? I hope TKoH finds its feet outside the armaverse. I prefer a more intelligent system in the Armaverse, but a more complex and challenging system of parts in TKoH. (community preview, case in point)

Edited June 27, 2011 by Ebolavirus

[liquidpinky 11]

Why does noone see this as a standalone game?

Also, why does no one see it as a proper sim either, the only thing not in are aircraft's proper names thanks to legal reasons? Whoop de do.

Also, did the DCS Black Shark team actually fly a real Black Shark, I doubt it very much. They probably would have been shot if they got within ten feet of one?

[OB1 10]

Why does noone see this as a standalone game?

I mean, look at it this way, this is a community preview, most of the features are not included yet, and from what I could gather it will play like SimCopter with a modern and realistic touch.

I am very well aware it is a stand alone game, as for realism well I guess time will tell. I do share some of your insights, I myself would most likely buy this game just because I'm curious to see what they can achieve and also to support bis..

...and dcs provides how many flight models to users? I hope TKoH finds its feet outside the armaverse. I prefer a more intelligent system in the Armaverse, but a more complex and challenging system of parts in TKoH. (community preview, case in point)

there is a very good reason why they provide few models.. because to realistically model an aircraft it actually takes a long time... besides they're working hard to input more detailed models as time goes by... I suppose you could argue attention to detail vs quantity but I think in most cases people would choose quality over quantity..

[Tonmeister 14]

hell no, who gets quality these days? Everything is now so mass manufactured I hope component failure and fatigue becomes a huge element of the gameplay. ;)

[OB1 10]

Also, why does no one see it as a proper sim either, the only thing not in are aircraft's proper names thanks to legal reasons? Whoop de do.

Also, did the DCS Black Shark team actually fly a real Black Shark, I doubt it very much. They probably would have been shot if they got within ten feet of one?

Bis provides VBS to the military because they are good at what they do.. I think you shouldn't question DCS's accuracy as they also provide simulators to the military. A lot of DCS's community has ex pilots that comment regularly on the accuracy of the sim. On top of that the game engine they use is at least suited for flight dynamic simulation. As for names like you said.. whoop de do, I never mentioned anything about names...

[liquidpinky 11]

Bis provides VBS to the military because they are good at what they do.. I think you shouldn't question DCS's accuracy as they also provide simulators to the military. A lot of DCS's community has ex pilots that comment regularly on the accuracy of the sim. On top of that the game engine they use is at least suited for flight dynamic simulation. As for names like you said.. whoop de do, I never mentioned anything about names...

That is what I am getting at, BIS is doing the exact same thing with ToH. So how can it be inferior to DCS, theoretically speaking of course as we haven't seen the final product yet.

I think BIS may have seen an open market for proper Civil Helicopter simulations and are going for it.

If they implement both flight seats in ToH there is the possibility of real instruction for trainee pilots over the internet.

[OB1 10]

That is what I am getting at, BIS is doing the exact same thing with ToH. So how can it be inferior to DCS, theoretically speaking of course as we haven't seen the final product yet.

I think BIS may have seen an open market for proper Civil Helicopter simulations and are going for it.

If they implement both flight seats in ToH there is the possibility of real instruction for trainee pilots over the internet.

I guess time will tell, If bis is to be on par with DCS - A company solely dedicated and experienced in making flight simulators, they are going to have to put in allot of work.

[subs17 9]

Also, why does no one see it as a proper sim either, the only thing not in are aircraft's proper names thanks to legal reasons? Whoop de do.

Also, did the DCS Black Shark team actually fly a real Black Shark, I doubt it very much. They probably would have been shot if they got within ten feet of one?

Eagle Dynamics building is in close proximity to Kamovs building from what I read they had access to all the aircrafts manuals and some actual KA50 pilots. Yes they did also get to get inside the aircraft otherwise the 6dof pit would not be as accurate as it is.(dude there is buttons behind you in that sim! they are everywhere even in the ceiling) Other teams have also gone the extra mile sick bag included Xsi sent 2 developers up in a T38C to see how the real aircraft performed IRL.

---------- Post added at 03:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:37 PM ----------

I guess time will tell, If bis is to be on par with DCS - A company solely dedicated and experienced in making flight simulators, they are going to have to put in allot of work.

Thats true the FM for all DCS aircraft take a year to make for advanced flight model of the KA50 the calculations are done for each blade on the rotor as well as everything else. Their A-10C is based on the A-10C sim they made for the USAF so they are quite serious about flight simulation. Bis are like ED except they make FPS, I compare DCS to A2 with ACE they are on the same level of complexity and no other FPS is on that same level.

---------- Post added at 04:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:48 PM ----------

That is what I am getting at, BIS is doing the exact same thing with ToH. So how can it be inferior to DCS, theoretically speaking of course as we haven't seen the final product yet.

I think BIS may have seen an open market for proper Civil Helicopter simulations and are going for it.

If they implement both flight seats in ToH there is the possibility of real instruction for trainee pilots over the internet.

DCs is a different market its more comparable to combat helo(the new longbow sim in development). Its inferior probably in detail maybe unless they add hydralics and electrical circuitry to the damage model etc. But TOH has more potential as its target audience does not need to be just civil helicopter sim enthusiasts. If the sim is made MP compatible with A2/3 then it will attract more people to purchase it. The other thing is if it is part of a series for example:

Take on Jets

Take on Tanks

Take on Ships

Take on Trains

You would have more people using it than just the hardcore helicopter gunship sim crowd which we have in DCS KA50/Combat Helo. DCS has the potential to do the opposite as you can already walk once you eject in DCS so ED might one day do that although tanks, trains and ships are more likely as FPS would require a different engine(eventhough you can already walk around the graphics detail is for a flight sim).

[liquidpinky 11]

The other thing is if it is part of a series for example:

Take on Jets

Take on Tanks

Take on Ships

Take on Trains

You would have more people using it than just the hardcore helicopter gunship sim crowd which we have in DCS KA50/Combat Helo. DCS has the potential to do the opposite as you can already walk once you eject in DCS so ED might one day do that although tanks, trains and ships are more likely as FPS would require a different engine(eventhough you can already walk around the graphics detail is for a flight sim).

Pretty much sums up what A3 could be though.

I think they have understood that due to time constraints they have to go do down a single avenue, or to use their own word, focus, on one particular aspect of the Arma universe. It seems the helicopters came up as the favourite and ToH was born.

[Big Dawg KS 6]

Take on Trains

BIS: make this your next project.

Trains are extremely underrepresented in all your games. :p

[subs17 9]

There are train simulators out there but how many of them let you get off the train and walk around. Another good idea is a Global map so you could have a whole warfare sim based in a Global map enviroment. A dynamic campaign would fit well on such a map and current PCs can handle a Global map. People could join Virtual units based in their own countrys and virtual wars could be played out between countrys. FSX could support such a mod when the Tacpac is released with its SDK although for a full on MMOG of this type you would want a whole heap of servers linked together.

[Beagle 684]

I guess time will tell, If bis is to be on par with DCS - A company solely dedicated and experienced in making flight simulators, they are going to have to put in allot of work.

I think ToH will be more like the

series. The series was not about buttons and knobs but about fun flying in a living environment..living up to that point that ATC actually yelled at you when you performed aerobatics ... or warned air traffic about you when you did not call in.

The flight model was o.k. but really not that complex, but it was definately more fun compared to the only competitor, MS-FS 98/2000

Edited June 28, 2011 by Beagle

[Big Dawg KS 6]

There are train simulators out there but how many of them let you get off the train and walk around.

None that I know of, which is disappointing considering how significant such a feature would be for a train sim. Add them to RV and imagine blowing the crap out of them (always been a bit of a fantasy of mine) in combat. BIS, the market is calling you... :butbut:

[SWAT_BigBear 0]

Trains in ArmA would be nice, or a "Take on Trains" Sim that is focused on trains used in war time, actually the US civil war trains is what hooked me.

Tunnels thru mountains would have to work properly.. (VBS underground feature?)

BI, think:

I think I can...I think I can...I think I can :D

[Innomadic 10]

There are people who don't want a combat sim with their helo sim. That is why ToH exists.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

I wonder if it will be transparent enough so that in the final version, Arma users can use TKOH terrain (Seattle and Southeast Asia was it?) in OA/A3, and if TKOH can use OA/A3 terrains and units?

I do hope there will be multiplayer, tuned such that performance will be better since we're only dealing with a single chopper. In that case, setup quick scenarios for more detailed practice sounds like fun.

[liquidpinky 11]

I wonder if it will be transparent enough so that in the final version, Arma users can use TKOH terrain (Seattle and Southeast Asia was it?) in OA/A3, and if TKOH can use OA/A3 terrains and units?

I do hope there will be multiplayer, tuned such that performance will be better since we're only dealing with a single chopper. In that case, setup quick scenarios for more detailed practice sounds like fun.

That would be nice, making them like expansions for each other.

It also would give Take On players instant access to community mods right from the get go as well.

They would have to ensure there was no thievery of the official terrains either way I suppose though.

I will miss my flights around all the A2 and OA official and community addon maps if it wasn't possible in the final game.

[subs17 9]

There are people who don't want a combat sim with their helo sim. That is why ToH exists.

But its always good to have the option for those that want it, TOH is standalone so I don't see a problem if they did allow for it to join up with A2/3 for those want to do it.

[OB1 10]

I wonder if it will be transparent enough so that in the final version, Arma users can use TKOH terrain (Seattle and Southeast Asia was it?) in OA/A3, and if TKOH can use OA/A3 terrains and units?

That would be the best thing bis can do for ToH. If they do, their sales would almost be on par with the arma series.. Arma players are always keen for new terrain and content...

[Big Dawg KS 6]

That would be the best thing bis can do for ToH. If they do, their sales would almost be on par with the arma series.. Arma players are always keen for new terrain and content...

I would I want to use the lower-resolution TakOH terrains in ArmA? I'd imagine it'd look pretty terrible...

[Alex72 1]

I think the missions and the nice environments speaks volumes. A serious flight model although not the hardest and with a bunch of realistic button pressing although not over the top. Missions where you advance and get into bigger and bigger action such as heavy transporting to the front or deliver an antenna to a roof etc.

TKOH seems pretty alone in that AFAIK. It can be the one that makes newcomers to the sim world get really interested - in the sim world - by not being overly complicated, but very fun and still challenging.

Sounds good to me personally.