Classes of A.I.

[Uziyahu--IDF 0]

I think ArmA 3 should have classes of A.I. reflecting Occupation, Skill Level and Training Doctrine.

A highly-skilled Civilian Hunter who has joined the Resistance is going to behave differently than an anti-gun Civilian Peace-activist.

A poorly-trained but deeply indoctrinated Jihadist might use the "Allah-guided-bullets" method of firing his weapon from the hip.

A Cold-War era Soviet who has been trained to use overwhelming volume of fire is going to fight differently than the NATO soldier who was taught to make every bullet count (because he has to kill 20 - 40 soldiers just to hold ground).

I think this should include the potential to make mistakes: dropping hand grenades, not knowing the best way to clear a jam, blowing themselves up setting IED's, failing to lead moving targets (as the OPFOR at Grenada when firing at the C130's dropping U.S. troops), friendly fire.

[avibird 1 141]

I think ArmA 3 should have classes of A.I. reflecting Occupation, Skill Level and Training Doctrine.

A highly-skilled Civilian Hunter who has joined the Resistance is going to behave differently than an anti-gun Civilian Peace-activist.

A poorly-trained but deeply indoctrinated Jihadist might use the "Allah-guided-bullets" method of firing his weapon from the hip.

A Cold-War era Soviet who has been trained to use overwhelming volume of fire is going to fight differently than the NATO soldier who was taught to make every bullet count (because he has to kill 20 - 40 soldiers just to hold ground).

I think this should include the potential to make mistakes: dropping hand grenades, not knowing the best way to clear a jam, blowing themselves up setting IED's, failing to lead moving targets (as the OPFOR at Grenada when firing at the C130's dropping U.S. troops), friendly fire.

What up Uziyahu I do like it but we will not see something like that until ARMA6 OR 7. BOHEMIA still needs to get the AI to drive better and find cover right ect. take care:)

Edited June 17, 2011 by AVIBIRD 1

[PuFu 4591]

in theory, your suggestions are nice and all, but not gonna happen.

but

differently than the NATO soldier who was taught to make every bullet count

That made me LOL hard!!

[Uberduderofdoomer 10]

I think that beyond accuracy, aim speed, reaction times, and simple combat characteristics, they should most definitely not base chance of success on implementable skill level of unit. Or the potential of making mistakes on purpose. The AI makes enough mistakes already when the devs try to make it work flawlessly. Although maybe ammo conservation could also change with skill, that could be interesting. I think that rather than depending on their class it would be more important to base it on their equipment. I do believe shotgunners should behave differently than snipers. On the other hand, I dont think it would much matter which class is good at healing if only medics have medpacks.

Interesting idea, but all in all they should focus on making it actually work before getting too jiggy with it.

Edited June 18, 2011 by Uberduderofdoomer

[Rak 0]

I really like this idea and though this one before. Making different "AI Behaviours" would really add to the gameplay.

[NoRailgunner 0]

Disagree - hardcoded + predefined unit classes are the wrong direction - thought it would make the AI even more predictable and less surprising in game.

Imho it would be better to let the mission maker decide what skills each unit has. Perhaps some more + precise AI skill settings in options + editor would be more welcome?

[Alex72 1]

Like always, would be nice with stock-set values where civilians with weapons are lesser skilled and well trained soldiers have much better aim etc. But(!) it should be tweakable so you could do the opposite.

Some stock values where it feels realistic wouldnt hurt instead of all being of the same skill. Im thinking of course of the stock scenarios and for example for the newcomers when they dab in the editor. So not everything is at "nil" out of the box so to speak.

Agreed though NoRail.

[lugiahua 26]

I just wish trained military fights different than militiamen...

[-ASA-ODEN 0]

use skill in editor or setSkill in code?

[CarlGustaffa 4]

...and allowFleeing for runners and suppressFor for spending ammo. I don't think I want them to behave differently as standard. I mean, currently nobody is able to get the grasp of formation direction (unless fixed, haven't tested in a while), rather than having to deal with specific groups having individual bugs.

[ben_s 11]

ODEN;1959034']use skill in editor or setSkill in code?

Why have guns if you can add them yourselves?

Just because the option is there to manually change something - doesn't mean the user should have to use it to achieve an effect.

It'd be nice to have different classes of units to have different AI styles and skills. But I doubt it's that important.

[Daniel 0]

I agree 100% with the OP, this seems the next logical step to make the whole variety of conflicts more authentic. I really hope BIS have already or are prepared to consider this.

[NeMeSiS 11]

I think they should focus on getting 1 AI routine right before trying to do several others at the same time.

[Tobie 10]

would be nice feature.. but first the AI needs to get smarter.. much smarter^^

[Uziyahu--IDF 0]

That made me LOL hard!!

That's the way I was trained during the Cold War. I'm sure that real combat is a different story.

B.I. got the A.I. right. It was called Operation Flashpoint: Elite. AVIBIRD 1 knows what I'm talking about.

I'm hearing a chorus of the same voices that were around when the first public demo of Operation Flashpoint: Cold War Crisis was in the making. Everybody presuming to determine what B.I. could or could not do.

Let me tell you a story about your kind, how it was a little over 10 years ago.

I said, "You've got open side-doors on helicopters. I want a doorgunner."

"No, impossible. Can't happen. They don't have time for that," they said.

B.I. gave us a doorgunner.

Forests were going to be only about 50 meters deep and then you would run into a wall, like in existing games.

"Awww, that would have been so cool if you could walk through the entire forest," we whined.

B.I. gave us fully-working forests.

Motorcycles and bicycles. Pistols. More women. All shot down by voices like yours. All found in Operation Flashpoint: Resistance.

Don't tell me what B.I. can't do and don't presume to speak for them. Instead, address the idea.

Edited June 19, 2011 by Uziyahu--IDF

[CarlGustaffa 4]

It's a long shot, but... BI can't give us proper rocket ballistics because the engine can't. So, now, hopefully :D

[mrcash2009 0]

The very same question came about with Ivan back for Arma 2 ...

http://www.vimeo.com/1958107

It never got answered :) I think i will get a couple of kegs of beer thrown at me posting that again.

Anyway ....

I think it should be left how it is, especially how things like ASR skills and other mods show how it can be worked on. However, to implement in vanilla (even though you can then override anyway) is interesting. BI will have probably taken into account what such mods have done so far, so if it comes pre defined then I dont think its a killer, as long as its changeable.

Edited June 19, 2011 by mrcash2009

[wipman 1]

Hi, some militia/guerrilla fighters are as trained as special forces, some civilians have been in highly trained (SWAT like) police units or have been in the military; some dirty hippies have a natural skill with firearms, like .22LR pistols and rifles. Some hunters are as good in camo tecnics as shooting their 7.62 (or bigger) hunting rifles many times even better than trained standard infantry units, that are only used to shoot at standing targets and do suppression fire. Is impossible to make all the individual units to behave as true individuals instead as whole sides. They should have all their own personality and background and react/interact based on that. There isn't any computer on the market that can move all that. The AIs must have a side based skill that can be tweaked on the mission editor by the mission maker.

But... what could be made... will be to have various separated skills bars, like Accuracy, Awareness, Stealth and Tactic; for example, i think that add separate slideable skill bars with things like that... may be possible. Let's C ya

[rye1 21]

Some reserve units have been better trained and disciplined than regular units. Skill, class, is dependant on the person but it is a very good idea.

[ben_s 11]

Some reserve units have been better trained and disciplined than regular units. Skill, class, is dependant on the person but it is a very good idea.

Yeah, but in general your spec-op unit will be more skilled than your run-of-the-mill insurgent.

[theblessedpig 10]

Well I wouldn't really bet my left nut on the fact that insurgents are badly trained and undisciplined. If you realize that they live in countries where war has raged for almost a century and that some of these insurgents have received extensive military training from the CIA for instance. Take Afghanistan for example, where first the CIA trained and equipped the Taliban to fight the Ruskies and then when NATO invaded Afghanistan they were afraid of the military training and equipment the CIA gave to the Taliban.

BIS should rather not touch this as this can be highly subjective as already mentioned above. You can still modify it with scripts and mods, remember.

What really needs some reworking is the AI in general. Just 20 minutes ago I was on a server. I shot a 40mm granade at an enemy 400m away from me. Not 5 seconds later 3 different units engaged me from distances beyond 1000m with deadly efficiency. They didn't see me fire the grenade, they didn't hear me.

On the same server, the AI also managed to hit me from 600m with a bullet even though there was smoke between the AI and me and even though I changed position using the basic drill. BIS really need to change the almighty AI.

[Daniel 0]

AI bugs deserve a separate thread. I don't think there's much we can discuss about them until Arma 3 is released, besides the obvious.

I think many issues are being confused here. By classes, do we mean actual AI ability such as accuracy and hearing, or routines such as reaction to contact, fire and maneuverer, etc. Because although an insurgent and a professional soldier may well have comparable shooting skills and bravery, their style of fighting should be noticeably different. This should be definable in the mission editor.

[Uziyahu--IDF 0]

What about check-boxes for various skills, like in an RPG? You would have default settings for a unit type, but an Advanced window where you could customize a unit's skills?

[Daniel 0]

You have to consider what gameplay value you'd actually gain from that, considering it would make things more complex. Personally i'd say an overall weapon accuracy slider per unit would be enough. I can see the realism value of it though, that either someone knows how to use an RPG or they don't. But I think a slider would deal with that better than a binary tickbox option, and then it starts getting complex...

What we have now (correct me if i'm wrong - been a while since I was actively building missions) is an weapon accuracy slider per side, which is dictated by either the player's config file, or the server config if playing multiplayer. This value needs to be definable per unit by the mission editor, separate to the current Skill slider.

Edited June 19, 2011 by Daniel

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Something like setSkill array perhaps? It's currently there, but some of the values aren't broad enough.