Automatic Mod Downloading

[Przemek_kondor 13]

By the nature of the game, BIS will not most likely get much larger audience no matter how simple the mod downloading is. The series is tedious to people who are used to fast, simple, easy and arcade games.

I don't care too much about new players. I'm just sick about playing with shourtcuts / launchers whenever I change server.

I'm a professional programmer, linux user and BIS serie player since OFP so it's not a problem from technical point of view. But it's a game. I should focus on playing not on some technical issues like searching of new version of Duala. There are other things (family, other hobbies etc) than following Armaholic's news. After day of work I would like to run arma and play whatever mission with my friends from CTF to Warfare or Coop without looking to rpt file to find missing addons.

Then again I don't play on public servers so my view can be different from many other views but it is still my opinion and you must accept it.

But nobody calls you less valuable player like you do

[rory_pamphilon 16]

Primarks elitist views aside, how many people in here found it easy and straight forward to install a mod the first time you came to do it?

I certainly did not, it took alot of forum searching to eventually work out how to do it. Then once the method was discovered I realised just how large and impressive the mod scene is. One of my first mods I used was the JSRS sound mod, it changed the game, it was like you were suddenly thrown into a war, the immersion increased 5 fold. I truelly beleive arma 1,2 & soon 3 are the single greatest games/simulators ever created for the PC and i feel like I want to share this with a much larger audience and yet i know that the majority of gamers out there that buy arma 3 will only experience the tip of the iceberg in terms of whats really possible with it if it stays the way it is with arma 2.

Unless, something is implement by BI to make mod installing easier.

Preferable ways...

First. All internal, within the game interface, preferably with background downloading possible for the larger mods.

Second. External official BI mod downloaded and updater.

Third. (and least preferable) a third party mod downloader and installer.

If you manage the first BI, your player base will explode!

Edited June 17, 2011 by rory_pamphilon

[dmarkwick 261]

Primarks elitist views aside, how many people in here found it easy and straight forward to install a mod the first time you came to do it?

I certainly did not, it took alot of forum searching to eventually work out how to do it. Then once the method was discovered I realised just how large and impressive the mod scene is. One of my first mods I used was the JSRS sound mod, it changed the game, it was like you were suddenly thrown into a war, the immersion increased 5 fold. I truelly beleive arma 1,2 & soon 3 are the single greatest games/simulators ever created for the PC and i feel like I want to share this with a much larger audience and yet i know that the majority of gamers out there that buy arma 3 will only experience the tip of the iceberg in terms of whats really possible with it.

Unless something is implement by BI to make mod installing easier.

Preferable ways...

First. All internal, within the game interface, preferably with background downloading possible for the larger mods.

Second. External official BI mod downloaded and updater.

Third. (and least preferable) a third party mod downloader and installer.

If you manage the first BI, your player base will explode!

I should prefer the second option. That way, gamers can game, while those who wish to get a little more out of the game can do so reasonably easily. Especially if that launcher app can organise the mods into meaningful directory structures automagically.

[Primarch 10]

tl;dr

Just saying I am sure BIS employees has been notified that some people have problems installing mods, but those are still third party addons and not related to BIS in anyway.

However I would like if they added an automatic patcher while in-game and thus mod creators could release patches with an ease without the need of third party programs such as SixUpdater.

But then again, most of the addons you need to download are large and require the restart of the game since they modify the base files.

[NeMeSiS 11]

Primarks elitist views aside, how many people in here found it easy and straight forward to install a mod the first time you came to do it?

Very easy. Manually dropping files in a folder gives me full control, which means you always know what is going on and you can manage everything yourself.

It should only give you trouble if you are pretty new to PC's in general and never browsed around with explorer before.

However, clicking on a server and not being able to join, then having to hunt some addons by vague description is very annoying, and should definately be improved.

[dmarkwick 261]

Very easy. Manually dropping files in a folder gives me full control, which means you always know what is going on and you can manage everything yourself.

It should only give you trouble if you are pretty new to PC's in general and never browsed around with explorer before.

My experience was that it seemed initially to be quite easy, but I didn't understand about dependencies and conflicts, or about leaving the "official" addons folder alone. There are many pitfalls even for people who know how to manage files.

[rory_pamphilon 16]

My experience was that it seemed initially to be quite easy, but I didn't understand about dependencies and conflicts, or about leaving the "official" addons folder alone. There are many pitfalls even for people who know how to manage files.

My experience also, some work the way they are supposed to but other times I cannot for the life of me work out what I have done wrong and I count myself pretty clued up on games and windows having played (and modded) PC games for 15 years.

I still cant get the B52 mod working :mad: .. But i persist because I love the game, but if that persistance was instead funneled 100% into the actual game itself, it would be even more enjoyable!

Edited June 17, 2011 by rory_pamphilon

[Primarch 10]

My experience also, some work the way they are supposed to but other times I cannot for the life of me work out what I have done wrong and I count myself pretty clued up on games and windows having played (and modded) PC games for 15 years.

I still cant get the B52 mod working :mad: .. But i persist because I love the game, but if that persistance was instead funneled 100% into the actual game itself, it would be even more enjoyable!

Perhaps the problem is within the mod?

Any good mod gives you a readme that will get the thing working.

Although there are a lot of good mods that are dependent on too many things, like ACRE so if something goes wrong, you'll never know what it is.

[NeMeSiS 11]

My experience was that it seemed initially to be quite easy, but I didn't understand about dependencies and conflicts, or about leaving the "official" addons folder alone. There are many pitfalls even for people who know how to manage files.

True, but i dont think that most problems with dependencies and conflicts can be prevented by BI. Morrowind and Oblivion come with a nice mod loader and relatively helpful error messages(compared to ArmA anyway) when loading the game about those problems, yet those games probabably have the most complicated dependancy/conflict problems i have ever seen.

[oktane 0]

Hey guys,

If you LIKE this idea, here's the CIT ticket you can VOTE UP on, it is already pretty popular... http://dev-heaven.net/issues/5520

Supposedly, if it gets enough votes it will be looked at by the team seriously.

Try to keep the discussion here though, the Issue Tracker isn't like a forum so much. :)

Addon synchronization is the only way to bring together new players with the old players that like addons. (read here and here)

Maybe the OP can put this in the first post if he wants, depends on if this thread has legs.

Cheers

Edited June 17, 2011 by oktane

[das attorney 857]

It would seem to me that there should be a central repository of mods (kept synched up on various FTP's) and something like Six-Updater on the client's end to install what's required for the server they want to join. The server's themselves would auto synch with the central repository. That way everyone would be up to date at any given time. If you don't have the right mod (or right version), the game would quit and then auto-launch back up when the required files are installed.

I don't think the server itself should DL the mod direct to the client. What if you then join a different server using the same mod, but the servers are on different versions? There's potential for cock-ups to happen.

Plus, you could have the situation where somebody could maliciously slow up a server by joining, quitting, deleting mod, joining etc.

ALso, rSync distribution has advantages of less bandwidth used by everyone.

This would have some problems though:

• Mod makers would need to submit their completed addon to the network.
  
• Who would pay for hosting the mod repository? (AFAIK Sickboy, KH etc do this now. Would BIS pay for this)?
  

Maybe it would not be practical, but whatever BIS do, they need to be fairly right wing about it. Current situation is unacceptable (for BIS) if they wish to maximise sales as there are too many methods of mod distribution and too many versioning issues. People get confused etc... They need to make people do the same thing (mod wise). Like Ken Livingstone forcing Londoners to use the Oyster Card system for travel. At first there are moaners, but after a while, everyone has a better experience.

IIRC correctly, they did some sort of research on 'featured addons' on arma2.com. Maybe that was research for Arma 3 mod distribution. Not sure what the outcome was though.

These are just my thoughts on the matter though. Not trying to start a flame war or anything :) Enjoying the discussion!

[NoRailgunner 0]

Imho BIS just need to make one real handy mp browser.

Something where people have to see all about (additional to current infos):

+ the mission itself eg daytime, players faction/group

+ required addon/mod versions

+ some download options (user has to agree/confirm before downloading stuff)

+ better error messages for clients (understandable for all, readable/nice design)

+ simple error messages for players ingame eg

"player <name> can't join because of using wrong ArmA3 version/patch/update"

"player <name> can't join because of addon/mod <name> version mismatch!"

"player <name> can't join because of suspicious files!!"

...

Better vote that BIS devs will get some time to try & play with their work/game like a player! Testing is not playing... ;)

[PuFu 4591]

dev-heaven, kellys-heroes and six sense are the primary download location for the six updater network, but NOT the only ones. You can check the amount of servers in the network yourself . Anyone fulfilling six requirements can jump on the bandwagon and put their server space and bandwidth up for community (i know, i know, less and less are doing it).

Anyways, in order for the addons/mod to work from the start-go, right out of the box, without needing additional software, BIS would need to allow clients to synk up easier, we all agree on that.

How i see it going:

1. allow mods/addons to be upload on a some sort of FTP/repro/depository etc, following some simple rules. Each mod should have it's own identification code, similar to the keys, but individual for each file.

2. the server would check needed addons (from the mission head list - which would automatically include the direct link) and allow clients to download the files from within the engine (even if some sort of game restart would be needed) from the main database/repository (files could be downloaded the same way six work, via multiple mirrors, or the way ptp works).

The big addon hosting websites, such as armaholic, armainfo etc etc keep their server by allowing advertisments. Allowing addons to be downloaded directly, means less hits on the servers, hence less money, ending up in these sort of community websites going down.

On the issues, i know dwarden has been linking both moddb its desura around some skype groups. I know how desura works, it still installed a 3rd party software.

we'll see how all this works out, but as said, i am sure BIS is aware of the problem

[rory_pamphilon 16]

I'm glad to hear BI are aware of it, I just hope this issue gets the attention it deserves. If done well it has the potential to make the modding scene even bigger than it already is with a much larger spectrum of players able to enjoy the great mods out there.

Traffic would initially be quite heavy when a new mod is released but you only hav to download it once or when there's an update out. Maybe it could even be that when mod updates come out, the whole thing isn't downloaded again, just an update is downloaded, a mod patch for want of a better description.

There may even be the potential for better security if the mods are all held on a central server that is maintained by BI or trusted third party. You submit your mod, it's checked for any suspicious code and then uploaded for everybody to use.

Servers and clients as you say would always be in sync preventing those frustrating (and confusing for newbies) mod version error messages, where you get into the server but are then spammed with errors.

Any other advantages u guys can think of?

[xMobiusTyrx 10]

Pretty impractical i think considering the file sizes of e.g. ACE2 with more than 1.5 GB data and especially with constant updates etc...

Plus it would stress the servers even more if players download the mod while other players play online. Expect lag spikes, more hardware failures etc etc..

I wish there was a way to do this, but this way wont work, sorry.

Then don't make ACE2 do that, ACE sucks anyways

---------- Post added at 10:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:01 PM ----------

It weeds out the idiots and people with an attention span of a potato. (read: dedicated CoD/Battlefield players)

Hence only 20 people only playing ArmA 2 online right now. It's pathetic. We need attention span of a potato people.

[-=Borz=- 10]

If making mods work would only be "dropping them in a folder", this thread would not exist.

Many mods require much more than dropping stuff in folders.

I have been reading forums for months and momths, something I do everyday, however, there are plenty of mods i still do not know how to install, and even having got feedback from the authors in forums.

I appreciate their effort and help, however many of us do not have enough IT skills to make the addons work properly, even following the instructions from the read me file, where often authors tend to assume everyone understands all concepts; i.e. "open the note pad and type...." (what the hell is that ;)

I do not know if there a possibility to put everything together in a folder and the game organizes all automatically, and when you connect to a server the game activates or inactivates the adequate mods, and if not there downloads and intals them automatically) An automatic system like that would be greatly appreciated and the best improvement Arma could have IMHO. I do not care about amazing graphics, ragdolls, or these crappy stuff. I just want to be able toplay the game without constant barriers.

It might sound sad, but I have never been able to really enjoy 100% a MP game from BI . I wish I could, however I am still here because I believe BI games are amazing, and with the hope that one day they will realize about the problems many customers are experiencing and offer us a solution.

You will have thousands of new players guaranteed, starting by several dozens of my friends who find the arma series unaccesible and never want to play with me :)

As mentioned in another thread, I do not want the game to change to attract the COD players like a magnet, but just to be able to play with my friends.

Anyways, hope at least this thread gets read :)

thanks

Edited June 19, 2011 by -=Borz=-
correction of grammar mistakes

[metalcraze 290]

People complaining about "omg no mod downloader in ArmA" forget that it isn't some game where mods are about modifying soldier skins. There are dozens of mods that change everything coming out all the time, keeping track of all of them even using "central repository" will be impossible.

Not mentioning funds needed to run the central repository.

Don't be lazy, installing mods for ArmA is piss easy. You have Armaholic, you have Six-Updater - what more can you wish for?

In OFP you actually had to edit main game's config written in C to make many work and work together and looking for mods was hard.

[PuFu 4591]

People complaining about "omg no mod downloader in ArmA" forget that it isn't some game where mods are about modifying soldier skins.

Right, so? were's the difference? All mods/addons (small or big) are installed and work in the same way from an engine perspective

There are dozens of mods that change everything coming out all the time, keeping track of all of them even using "central repository" will be impossible.

Why? Because the an addon maker would then be able to upload directly to this sort of central repository instead of the average fileshare or alike?

Not mentioning funds needed to run the central repository.

Don't be lazy, installing mods for ArmA is piss easy. You have Armaholic, you have Six-Updater

Oh, now is a money problem? Do you think hosting armaholic type of servers or mirrors for six updater are free? Really? Just because YOU are not paying for it, it doesn't mean others don't. How about you send me your IP so i can stick it in the "favourite list" on some of SIX mirrors for a change?

what more can you wish for?

How about a built in addon synk, that would make A3 easier to work with, and synk up my mods with servers/mission without needing to actually do it myself manually or via some 3rd party software?

I thought that was what the thread was all about, not hearing you fucking rants all over again

In OFP you actually had to edit main game's config written in C to make many work and work together and looking for mods was hard.

Yeah, so, what's your point?

I know how things works for OFP. Mind you OFP was released 10 years ago, when bandwidth and internet connection weren't even a 10th of what they are today. hell, i know i had to work with dial-up back in 2001 when OFP was born, and getting big mods meant i had to go to my father's office for some lame ass DSL...

Edited June 19, 2011 by PuFu

[ProfTournesol 956]

If making mods work would only be "dropping them in a folder", this thread would not exist.

Many mods require much more than dropping stuff in folders.

Well, basically all mods are installed like this, unless using some updaters. Then mod makers may allow player to twick their mods with some more complicated stuff, but it has nothing to do with mod handling by the game. Nothing BIS can do about it.

Making things easier (ie auto-downloading in MP) is always welcomed, of course.

[-=Borz=- 10]

Well, basically all mods are installed like this, unless using some updaters. Then mod makers may allow player to twick their mods with some more complicated stuff, but it has nothing to do with mod handling by the game. Nothing BIS can do about it.

Making things easier (ie auto-downloading in MP) is always welcomed, of course.

Fair enough. I do not understand about different types of mods or how they work. I just mentioned that in addition to dropping files in a folder, some of them require other things, like typing stuff in different places, and that is not easy.

If there is nothing BIS can do about syncronising mods etc, at least we would appreciate some video tutorials about how to install different types of mods, where to write the different stuff, where to add different types of files, etc.

And perhaps BI can consider a system to auto-download in MP and update their own patches, etc automatically.

I think that would facilitate stuff greatly.

Regards

Edited June 19, 2011 by -=Borz=-

[sbsmac 0]

What features would a decent mod-management solution have ?

* It should provide strong versioning capability. (ie, prevent the client and server using different releases of the mod).

* It should force the same load-order for both client and server

* It should allow 'dynamic', ie 'per-mission' mod selection as well as 'static' (per-server) mods. Ie, mission-makers should be able to specify a requirement for a particular version of a mod.

* It should allow clients to automatically fetch and install required mods, either from the server or from a URL supplied by the mod.

* It should allow fetching of mods to be 'queued' to a later time.

* The user should be given some indication of how much data and time the download should take.

* As far as possible, the scheme should be transparent to the user - ie they just join a server and play the mission.

None of the above is technically complicated. The most difficult part from BIS's perspective is probably the idea of rebuilding the configuration dynamically for each mission.

[Scubbo 10]

IMO, just bring back mod packs :) was far easier for server admins and players alike to be in sync and the mod would actually get played... (not the rar'd versions of 100 other mods either) I mean 1 mod running at once, such as ACE2 1.0

Trickling updates out sure, it caters to those hardcore players and organized clans, and gets the community bug testing --- but at the huge expense of making it difficult to find a server running your version and making it difficult for the general user to just play the game :)

(yes I know sixupdater is a sweet program which makes this easier, but still thats not part of the game, people have to know what to search for to find it etc etc)

the modular approach to MODS themselves is a huge step backwards for the actual playing of the mod IMO...

you can all rage now.

[tacticalnuggets 24]

It weeds out the idiots and people with an attention span of a potato. (read: dedicated CoD/Battlefield players)

This is the most ridiculous thought process I continue to encounter here. Not to mention extremely disrespectful.

[Uberduderofdoomer 10]

The sad fact is that mods rarely contribute to a game's popularity. It tends to be a games popularity of the game x it's hardcore factor that = mod popularity.

Whenever I discuss the advatages of the PC version of games over their console counterparts, I always mention mods, and I always recieve one of two responses: either "Oh, but I don't play mods" (as if that were a good reason but I digress) or "even if I play mods, most people don't because they dont know how to install them".

I agree, for a company that almost entirely depends on it's mod popularity, they should take more steps making it easier to implement mods, not just easier to mod. Not that I wish to complain, they are relatively amazing on the modding side, so props to them for that. It's just that they should take it further.

Edited June 20, 2011 by Uberduderofdoomer

[whisper 0]

People complaining about "omg no mod downloader in ArmA" forget that it isn't some game where mods are about modifying soldier skins. There are dozens of mods that change everything coming out all the time, keeping track of all of them even using "central repository" will be impossible.

Not mentioning funds needed to run the central repository.

Don't be lazy, installing mods for ArmA is piss easy. You have Armaholic, you have Six-Updater - what more can you wish for?

In OFP you actually had to edit main game's config written in C to make many work and work together and looking for mods was hard.

And FYI in plenty of other games, mods ALSO modify everything.... Your point being?

You don't need a central repos for this kind of system. It's sure not needed for IDTech mods, and it works fine, go figure