Automatic Mod Downloading

[rory_pamphilon 16]

Nobody said we'd be making our game servers handle the downloads... that's an issue we have right now with missions as it is. If your mission is over 10mb, the game server chokes when it sends the mission out to new players.

I want an HTTP or an FTP server to handle my requests (FTP would probably be the best route because I could have more control, but HTTP would do as well).

Exactly, nobdy has mentioned using the game server to download mods, the would be stupid and pointless, the lag would cripple the game even if the mod was only 10mb. What I and others are suggesting is for Arma 3 to hook onto a different server (a file server) when it needs to download a mod and then connect to game server when mod downloading is finished and join the game normally.

Ideally you would be able to specify two locations before connection to game server commences, one for mods required & one for the mission file, which if also shifted off game server would reduce lag tremendously over what currently happens with Arma 2.

[kylania 568]

What I and others are suggesting is for Arma 3 to hook onto a different server (a file server) when it needs to download a mod and then connect to game server when mod downloading is finished and join the game normally.

This is exactly how it works now. Of course instead of "ArmA3" doing it, YOU do it, but that's the way it should be.

There's never a case where you'd want all of your mods running and the order that you load mods can have a drastic effect on the game. I also don't want malicious admins pushing unverified code to my computer.

Basically once you understand what you are doing downloading and activating mods is not a problem at all. Even less of a problem when you include something like SIX Updater.

[sbsmac 0]

Basically once you understand what you are doing downloading and activating mods is not a problem at all. Even less of a problem when you include something like SIX Updater.

"Once you understand what you are doing" brain surgery isn't a problem either. The original point was that the current system is not very user-friendly and that people therefore weren't using it. This is undeniably true (admittedly, based on large amounts of anecdotal evidence).

Even if you understand what you are doing the current system has a number of serious problems - no addon versioning, inconsistencies due to load-ordering, and the requirement to restart the game to change the loaded mods. I really can't understand why anyone would think this is still a good system in 2011 when virtually every application on my PC is able to self-update and self-configure itself?

[rory_pamphilon 16]

Guys, looks to me like there might be a little bit of good news coming with regards to the mod scene and the associated headaches that inexperienced people get from simply trying to experience the amazing mod out there...

Have a listen to the three part Buchta interview and tell me what u think they mean when they go over the mod integration part of the conversation.

Sounds like they are gonna try and improve it a little :-)

[gossamersolid 155]

Guys, looks to me like there might be a little bit of good news coming with regards to the mod scene and the associated headaches that inexperienced people get from simply trying to experience the amazing mod out there...

Have a listen to the three part Buchta interview and tell me what u think they mean when they go over the mod integration part of the conversation.

Sounds like they are gonna try and improve it a little :-)

I sure hope so!

At this point in the series it feels like our custom content usage is being held back by this roadblock.

Either people have become less intelligent since OFP, or loading a mod has suddenly become harder to do.

Back in the days of CTI on OFP, you HAD to download a small set of mods to play any edition of it. This didn't stop it from becoming a very popular mode.

[dmarkwick 261]

I sure hope so!

At this point in the series it feels like our custom content usage is being held back by this roadblock.

Either people have become less intelligent since OFP, or loading a mod has suddenly become harder to do.

Back in the days of CTI on OFP, you HAD to download a small set of mods to play any edition of it. This didn't stop it from becoming a very popular mode.

On the other hand it was as much a PITA in OFP days as it is now. If the end result wasn't worth it people wouldn't have bothered :)

[sickboy 13]

On the other hand it was as much a PITA in OFP days as it is now. If the end result wasn't worth it people wouldn't have bothered :)

OFP scene was populated by die-hard men, while these days the arma2 scene is populated by a large bunch of pussies?! :)

Installing a single mod is easy. 5 too, managing 20-50 mods, different servers/versions etc, gets more involving.

At least until A3 (and who knows post A3) - deploy tools like Six Updater to make your and your user's life easier. Deployed in more and more communities, and takes away like 90% pain of managing and keeping mods updated for the servers you wanna play on :)

Edited August 9, 2011 by Sickboy

[rory_pamphilon 16]

OFP scene was populated by die-hard men, while these days the arma2 scene is populated by a large bunch of pussies?! :)

Installing a single mod is easy. 5 too, managing 20-50 mods, different servers/versions etc, gets more involving.

At least until A3 (and who knows post A3) - deploy tools like Six Updater to make your and your user's life easier. Deployed in more and more communities, and takes away like 90% pain of managing and keeping mods updated for the servers you wanna play on :)

I believe the die hard men are still there but now the fanbase is just a little larger than with OFP. This inevitably means more fans that aren't particularly IT/Arma/command line literate people become involved. So the percentage of die hard fans goes down and this will probably continue with Arma 3, but this is a good thing, pc gaming needs to expand to survive and i believe Arma 3 is the perfect example of what makes the pc superior and unique, i want console boys to catch a glimpse of Arma 3 somewhere, get interested, try it out, enjoy it and not be put off by unnecessary complexity.

I know you have made many invaluable contributions to the Arma community Sickboy but do you think the community will expand if modded Arma 3 servers still have all the current pitfalls that must expel potential players at a rate of 9 out of ten, u can see this happening when when u play a modded server, the majority don't get in.

Wouldn't it be amazing if everybody got in?

[sickboy 13]

Of course it would be amazing if they could. Im just saying there are quite good solutions out there today - they just need to be deployed.

I think we can all agree it would be great if support was built into the game - yet that does not help anyone today (then again this isn't the A2 forums :P).

Plenty of mod enabled servers with 10's of mods enabled, who get beginners and advanced members alike, joining their games succesfully because of e.g SU or AS.

The OFP/current scene bit was merely a joke, but your assessment is probably correct.

Edited August 10, 2011 by Sickboy

[rory_pamphilon 16]

No i think your right, the Arma 2 scene is not going to change in its implementation of mod anytime soon but Arma 3 is a new chance and a year away so this is why boosting awareness of this issue should be done now so there is time to implement it before release.

Personally i think BIS should hire you and you help develop an internal mod downloader & updater :)

[sickboy 13]

No i think your right, the Arma 2 scene is not going to change in its implementation of mod anytime soon but Arma 3 is a new chance and a year away so this is why boosting awareness of this issue should be done now so there is time to implement it before release.

Personally i think BIS should hire you and you help develop an internal mod downloader & updater :)

:D Thanks :) I don't write C++ though (nor have interest to), and that's probably what they need ;)

I think BIS should add some API's so the game can shell out to external programs to take on the task of downloading/installing/updating, and ability to restart the game with the correct startup parameters (unless we get realtime loadable addons of course, instead of like now have to restart the game).

The server could perhaps specify the update tool requirement / information.

Then me and others who develop update tools can take care of the rest, in whatever language we prefer.

While perhaps some simple addon downloading system could be part of the game, for the smaller addons / servers, and to be able to get going out of the box or so.

That's how I'd prefer it, but let's see what BIS thinks :)

Edited August 10, 2011 by Sickboy

[.kju 3244]

Vote CIT: Feature #17496 - Provide a simple interface to support community addon download tools

[rory_pamphilon 16]

Any chance of a comment from BIS regarding this? what are you guys planning with regards to this? i completely understand its all work in progress but would be nice to hear what you hope to achieve :-)

[sickboy 13]

Check the interview with Ivan Buchta, part 2 :)

All still pretty unclear ;D

[tacticalnuggets 24]

I cant tell people enough how epicly important it is for this to be in ArmA3. Without it the game will spiral into a state of locked servers and confusion regarding joining a server. With this one feature I almost feel like I could guarantee a 50% increase in late sales compared to arma2. Of course no one could make that prediction absolutely, but the universal reason I hear from people online who dont like arma2 tends to be the inability to join servers online, keeping their game up to date, and never having the right mods. At first its always the bugs, but once those get fixed what are peoples excuses for not playing arma2? Its that online community screaming that they cant join a server in arma2 for whatever reason.

Guy buys game, notices MP is barely useable for the casual player.

Guy tells 5 of his friends that there is no point in purchasing the game.

This is the modern world, adapt to it.

Edited August 20, 2011 by tacticalnuggets

[noubernou 77]

Still not sure who is going to host multi-gigabyte mods?

[tacticalnuggets 24]

Still not sure who is going to host multi-gigabyte mods?

Why would the server host the mods it needs? Its hosted from a different source, silly...

[polar bear 10]

Whether it's this guys suggestion or some other suggestion ABSOLUTELY there should be some sort of system to manage/download mods. I don't care if they're hosted centrally, or on individual servers, the process of installing them and keeping them up to date has to be managed either by the game, or by some mod-manager that comes installed with the game.

Exactly how it works I'll leave up to others to debate.

When you connect to a server it should somehow automatically select the mods required to run, and if you don't have those mods, direct you to some screen where you can get them. I know there are a bunch of die-hards who think keeping n00bs out of the game is some sort of benefit, but n00bs pay, and if you really want to be an elitist snob you can always just lock your server. It should be easy for people to get into the game. You should spend your time working out how to play the game, not how to get the damn thing installed.

Something like the way plugins work in firefox/chrome/etc?

Manually downloading a file, searching your HD for it, unzipping it, hoping you put it in the right place... that has to end.

Edited August 24, 2011 by Polar Bear

[sickboy 13]

Manually downloading a file, searching your HD for it, unzipping it, hoping you put it in the right place... that has to end.

SU does all you ask for and more: http://www.six-updater.net/p/about.html

Not delivered with the game currently, but im sure you'd agree; installing an external program just once, compared to manually searching and installing mods all the time, has preference :P

Edited August 24, 2011 by Sickboy

[polar bear 10]

SU does all you ask for and more: http://www.six-updater.net/p/about.html

Not delivered with the game currently, but im sure you'd agree; installing an external program just once, compared to manually searching and installing mods all the time, has preference :P

I agree that something like SU is perfect, but that doesn't do much good for someone who just bought ArmA3 and is trying to figure things out... you're literally expecting them to spend hours hunting around in forums to find out about things like SU. As I said, people should be spending their time learning how to play, not hunting through forums to learn about 3rd party packages that are essential to being able to play the game in any reasonable fashion.

Bundle it, or something like it, so it's installed along-side the game, even if it isn't built in, and the problem is solved.

Edited August 24, 2011 by Polar Bear

[sickboy 13]

I don't disagree on that, but until it is, you have options available.

Besides, don't understimate the power of mouth to mouth advertising etc :)

Bundle it, or something like it, so it's installed along-side the game, even if it isn't built in, and the problem is solved.

That would be great indeed.

A bit more integration with the game would be welcome too, so some API availability and bundle with the game could be great.

I should really finish that ticket on API asap :)

Edited August 24, 2011 by Sickboy

[gossamersolid 155]

Still not sure who is going to host multi-gigabyte mods?

Still not sure why we can't have it as an option.

BTW, our server box has 6TB a month of bandwidth. Most we've used is 1TB and we host downloads for multiple large sized mods: I44, PRACs, CSLA, etc

[noubernou 77]

Why would the server host the mods it needs? Its hosted from a different source, silly...

That still does not answer my question. ;)

[rory_pamphilon 16]

That still does not answeI dont thinkr my question. ;)

I dont think finding a file server that can host a 1-2gb mod would be a problem. Ideally a central mod depositry run by BIS would be the way to go as this would elliminate version mismatches but I cant see that happening.

Second after that would be the ability to set up a link in ur game server to a seperate file server so when u connect and are missing mods you connect to the file server first and the mod is downloaded before automatically reconnecting to the game server. Ideally youd be allowed to do that in the background so you can play SP or editor whilst downloading.

The third and in my opinion least favourable option is a third party / external mod downloader as this is what is used sometimes currently and (with greatest respect) is quite a fiddly procedure and still results in 9/10 people connecting getting turned away cos they dont know how to or havnt followed the procedure to the letter.

Yes large mods hosted might require some financial input to pay for the file server traffic but good clan servers run the donation model already and it seems to work. And when servers constantly run amazing stable mods and people notice the difference they will be willing to donate.

Im a little out of my depth here but maybe some clan admins could comment on the feasability of this?

[sickboy 13]

Im running a community powered network (worldwide mirrors) with nearly 200 mods (and growing) http://stats.six-updater.net/mods.

IMO community powered is the way to go. You insert 1 server into the network, but gain access to all the others already in it :)

The third and in my opinion least favourable option is a third party / external mod downloader as this is what is used sometimes currently and (with greatest respect) is quite a fiddly procedure and still results in 9/10 people connecting getting turned away cos they dont know how to or havnt followed the procedure to the letter.

For the player there are very few instructions for using SU with a clan/community server:

Only Once:

- Install SU

- Start SU

- Click sixupdater:// link provided by the clan/community

Forever;

- Use shortcut on desktop, or the sixupdater:// link, or start SU and select the preset for this server.

And everything is handled automatically, even incl ACRE/Jayarma2lib plugins if active, and joining the TeamSpeak server with optional password and default channel.

Try it out! http://www.six-updater.net/p/communities.html

More and more communities are deploying this and are finding that 95% of all their previous issues and gripes with mods and players in MP have subsided and life has again become easy, as it was intended :)

(For server admins, setting this up, shouldn't be much work either; http://six.dev-heaven.net/wagn/Six_Updater+CustomRepos_Setup. Especially if you take mods from the official network)

Edited August 25, 2011 by Sickboy