Helicopter flight model from TakeOnHelis

[subs17 9]

ITT: Assuming i'm not in a clan. I already know its potential, i want it in Arma 3. I'm arguing against the case that the same flight model in ToH and A3 would negate ToH's very existence, i am arguing FOR the increased potential in gameplay satisfaction of pilots due to the use of a realistic flight model. I really do not see where you read otherwise in my post.

Just because i don't have a fancy avatar or signature doesn't mean i don't actively take part in dedicated online play.

Ideally if you want the best out of the simulation then you want it to be as flexible as possible and not limited for just one area. I was using the Clan based warfare as an example of where this stuff could lead and how BI could make extra money. I suspect A3 and TOH have quite a similar engine or may even have more in common than that. Gameplay satisfaction is not a problem with this as BI are quite good at putting up immersive missions for both MP and SP. I look at FSX and find that some people are quite put off the by idea of combat in MP and this is just stupid since a Global map opens more possibilitys for gameplay. As it is Tacpac is the only decent mod for FSX that will bring combat to a Global map which extends the combat to intercountry and not just a small block of land somewhere. My own experience with DCS KA50 and comparing it to A2s helicopters I definately miss the 3d 6dof clickable cockpit and all the advantages of its avionics. As it is BI are good at making combat simulators so allowing(not forcing) people to combine TOH with A3 would increase gameplay significantly. Servers could easily have the option on or off and more will buy both to make use of the added features. This way everyone wins, BI can easily evolve the sim as well so it could well wind up matching DCS etc over time.(to early to judge yet how this would compare to DCS KA50 although a large number of flyable aircraft means the aircraft might be less detailed than DCS)

[sethos 2]

Wishlist for improved aircraft realism:

• Settling with power
  
• Dissymmetry of lift
  
• Wind effecting flight
  
• Air speed, not ground speed
  
• Landing gear that absorbs shock properly
  
• Propellers and rotorblades do damage
  
• Propellers and rotorblades can fly off or disintegrate
  
• Crashes do not cause an explosion unless there is a fuel leak and there is fuel left
  
• Turning the engine off gets rid of torque; stops the heli from spinning w/o tail rotor
  
• Planes take engine damage
  
• Accurate instruments, a little extra effort goes a long way
  

Things I like in the current system:

• The controls (what the keys do and how they effect thrust, peddles, etc with keyboard/mouse)
  
• Auto-rotation is spot on, from what a heli pilot told me
  

Things I do not want to see:

• A maze of switches; I play a lot of DCS, but I don't play ArmA for that level of simulation.
  
• The removal of Auto-hover; however, when the engine is turned off and/or a person gets out it should default to off.
  
• An option to dumb things down.
  

Yup, good list :)

[Innomadic 10]

Ideally if you want the best out of the simulation then you want it to be as flexible as possible and not limited for just one area. I was using the Clan based warfare as an example of where this stuff could lead and how BI could make extra money. I suspect A3 and TOH have quite a similar engine or may even have more in common than that. Gameplay satisfaction is not a problem with this as BI are quite good at putting up immersive missions for both MP and SP. I look at FSX and find that some people are quite put off the by idea of combat in MP and this is just stupid since a Global map opens more possibilitys for gameplay. As it is Tacpac is the only decent mod for FSX that will bring combat to a Global map which extends the combat to intercountry and not just a small block of land somewhere. My own experience with DCS KA50 and comparing it to A2s helicopters I definately miss the 3d 6dof clickable cockpit and all the advantages of its avionics. As it is BI are good at making combat simulators so allowing(not forcing) people to combine TOH with A3 would increase gameplay significantly. Servers could easily have the option on or off and more will buy both to make use of the added features. This way everyone wins, BI can easily evolve the sim as well so it could well wind up matching DCS etc over time.(to early to judge yet how this would compare to DCS KA50 although a large number of flyable aircraft means the aircraft might be less detailed than DCS)

I know...i AM arguing for ToH flight model in the game, you do understand that right?

[max power 21]

Didn't need to fully articulate my arguments again.

I think you misunderstood my post. I'm saying that your interpretation of the arguments you disagree with is inaccurate.

[subs17 9]

I know...i AM arguing for ToH flight model in the game, you do understand that right?

Really, my impression from the below comment is that you're against the idea.

So DCS automatically cancels out FSX because they both simulate flying, but DCS theoretically offers more?

I'm really quite dumbfounded at how you could compare A3 with ToH even if the only thing that they actually have in common which affects the gameplay itself is the Helicopter Flight model. I don't know how many times i've said that ToH has different/IMMENSELY bigger maps than A3's one, that it is completely civil focused to appeal to the simmers who DON'T have a boner for blowing stuff up.

Not everyone who buys ToH buys Arma 3 as well. Is it so hard to believe that such people exist?

BTW its not just FM but also would probably involve 3d 6dof clickable pit which adds alot more than whats already in A3. Comparing FSX helos to DCS KA50, with DCS all the important buttons work, FBW autopilot channels work, autopilot, trim etc. FSX very basic cockpit, 60% or less of switches do not work or have no use, no ramp start procedure or full manual for EH101 or the other helicopters. FM for EH101 is non FBW and it handles like a helicopter from WW2. Hoist is good but sling load has bugs. The R22 flys much better though but they are both quite basicly modeled thats just a few differences between FSXs helicopters and DCS.

Is9uWkP_kU8

Yes its me flying and its just a demonstration of some bugs that must have slipped through the beta testing and are still present in FSX.

Edited June 16, 2011 by Sniperwolf572
Fixed youtube link

[CarlGustaffa 4]

@20 sek: So flightsim had a setPos bug too? :D

[Innomadic 10]

First of all: EH101 physics in FSX is relatively broken...its just...crap...get the blackhawk mod, much more satisfying.

Secondly, how is effectively saying both offer something completely different that even if they did share the flight model it wouldn't affect sales because ToH is far more in depth in its field than A3, against having the flight model in A3?

There is a market for both, for those who want to blow shit up, for those who don't, and then those who like both will get both. Share the same flight model nothing changes, because one is civ with civilian orientated aircraft, missions and storyline, and one is military with the above in a military context. Many won't want the military setting, nor be interested in the other aspects of warfare A3 will support.

ToH will have fully working cockpits. This is yet to be confirmed for A3, and its unlikely as they have more to work on than just helicopters. ToH also has the ability to open up different sections of the aircraft to see the detail that the team has been striving towards, this is yet to be confirmed in A3 and is unlikely. ToH has vastly bigger maps, according to the dev vid a good chunk of SE Asia and the Seattle region, 120x120 and therefore 14000+km^2, Chernarus was 225km^2. Arma 3's island we have heard is 427km^2 in real life, which has been toned down by BIS as stated by Ivan in the E3 video. ToH is BIGGER than A3.

I have said from the beginning, they are both reaching out to totally different audiences that sharing the flight model will make no difference, and therefore we should have it in A3. I really do not want to know how you interpreted that as against the idea, i really don't.

I think you misunderstood my post. I'm saying that your interpretation of the arguments you disagree with is inaccurate.

The only argument i've seen from the other side is that the sales of ToH will be affected by the inclusion of the flight model into A3 because A3 is a military simulator. Such assertions are blatantly ignoring the other side of simmers which do not want a military simulator, but do want a decent flight sim. Just like some people buy DCS, and others buy FSX, and then some buy both, because they like both. Not every consumer wants military with his civilian game, and its not even confirmed (and is highly unlikely) that civilian choppers will even be in A3, so how you can say A3 with the flight model is a good enough substitute is an incredibly narrow way of looking at what both games offer.

They do NOT cancel each other out.

Edited June 16, 2011 by Innomadic

[Dwarden 1124]

"get the blackhawk mod"

URL? :)

[subs17 9]

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=116841&page=40

This looks good.

[funnyguy1 0]

...wrecking havoc with Kamovs...

Wrecking havoc with hamoc anyone? Flight model is one thing, and I'd love to see an upgraded version of it in ArmA3, but what's more important to me, or at least equally important, is combat. Futuristic setting aside, they'll probably include some good old helos too, and what I would realy like to have is some sort of decent helo combat simulation out of the box.

[Dwarden 1124]

oh why just A3 what about we show some ARMA: OA love :)

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=120836

[dmarkwick 261]

Oof :)

Pity that as I now use my PC for work, that I don't have my TM Cougar plugged in anymore :(

[max power 21]

The only argument i've seen from the other side is that the sales of ToH will be affected by the inclusion of the flight model into A3 because A3 is a military simulator. Such assertions are blatantly ignoring the other side of simmers which do not want a military simulator, but do want a decent flight sim. Just like some people buy DCS, and others buy FSX, and then some buy both, because they like both. Not every consumer wants military with his civilian game, and its not even confirmed (and is highly unlikely) that civilian choppers will even be in A3, so how you can say A3 with the flight model is a good enough substitute is an incredibly narrow way of looking at what both games offer.

They do NOT cancel each other out.

That's exactly the strawman / false interpretation of the I was talking about. Noone mentioned anything about cancelling each other out. What was said was there is a concern that the sims will effect each others' sales. Instead of maximizing profits by keeping the two separate, you're bleeding one into the other. Instead of buying two products to be satisfied, a certain kind of consumer must only buy one. This is significantly different than what you were talking about. Significantly. Moreover, you're characterizing all consumers as one kind of person, which I think is a false generalization.

Edited June 16, 2011 by Max Power

[b00ce 160]

NICE!

Can't wait!

[sethos 2]

oh why just A3 what about we show some ARMA: OA love :)

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=120836

Now I'm gonna swear; Holy fucking shit, I love you guys.

[papanowel 120]

OMG... it's nice :)

[Haystack15 10]

Man, You guys would do something like this when I don't have my Joystick. Its like Karma is just sleeping at my door.

[Montanaro 0]

oh why just A3 what about we show some ARMA: OA love :)

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=120836

*Bear Hug!*

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Sweet. But, like, what are the requirements (W7/DX11?), and how do you determine Arma2 owners (input valid serial or something)?

[Tonmeister 14]

I sqeeee! OMFG! exclamation mark, exclamation mark.

[5LEvEN 11]

Sounds AMAZING!!!

I just have one question though.

Does arma 2:CO count and/or usable?

[4 IN 1 0]

A2+A2:AO=A2:CO

So what do you think?;)

[subs17 9]

oh why just A3 what about we show some ARMA: OA love :)

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=120836

Awesome, I wonder if we can fly TOH in A2 then could we run around and shoot stuff on TOH maps when it comes out?:D

[maddogx 13]

Awesome, I wonder if we can fly TOH in A2 then could we run around and shoot stuff on TOH maps when it comes out?:D

Judging from what the devs have been saying about the engine, I believe that should be possible. It would be funny if some 3rd party Arma2 mods were ported to TakOH, transforming it into Arma2.5 :D.

[max power 21]

I think we're jumping to conclusions here. Because Take On can read Takistan's island information doesn't necessarily mean Operation Arrowhead and Take On can completely merge.