Why aren't they real ?

[Hueyman 10]

Hello, I looking worward to this sim but I've a question and I didn't see the answer anywhere. Why don't you recreate real chopper instead of copying their shapes a lot but not exactly ?

All helis I saw on screenshots looks like Hughes 500 D, Bell 412 etc .. Is it for copyrights reasons ? MSFS, X-Plane, IL2, DCS Series reproduce real Aircrafts with their real names, does they need to pay something to the manufacturer ( example : Boeing, Bell Textron etc .. )

Thanks a lot !!

[samb 15]

Question answered in official FAQ. Don't worry about models- modders will give us everything we need, and more.

Sam

[SWAT_BigBear 0]

You seem to have answered your own question.

Tho, in ArmA some of the vehicle names are funny, like "Coyota, Datzun".

[Hueyman 10]

Ok, I 'm a bit disapointed, since a Long time I expected a Heli sim the more accurate as possible, with , if possible the Huey helicopter aviable .. And if it's fictionnal copters .. Anyway, we'll see when it's out.

[Big Dawg KS 6]

Ok, I 'm a bit disapointed, since a Long time I expected a Heli sim the more accurate as possible, with , if possible the Huey helicopter aviable .. And if it's fictionnal copters .. Anyway, we'll see when it's out.

Technically, even if they were 100% accurate and had the real names, they are still fictional since they are still only digital representations of the real things... :rolleyes:

[PuFu 4591]

Technically, even if they were 100% accurate and had the real names, they are still fictional since they are still only digital representations of the real things... :rolleyes:

i'd call it a political answer right there

[habnor 19]

Ill fly anything, i don't need a brand name

[Hueyman 10]

Men, Ok but I don't know where do you come from ( I mean what sector of video games ). Maybe Battlefield, Armed Assault Operation Flashpoint ..

Armed Assault and OPS Flashpint are really impressive Military simulation, but overall military, so helis are quite good simukated but not accuracy ( it seems normal for me )

But me, I came from very accurate flight sim like X-Plane or DCS : Black Shark.

So please, don't tell that it's just digital representation, it's way more ..

The feeling we have in a real chopper will NEVER get the same on your home. But we can came very close. And it's shame to don't have the real aircrafts..

[Big Dawg KS 6]

The feeling we have in a real chopper will NEVER get the same on your home. But we can came very close. And it's shame to don't have the real aircrafts..

Just because it's slightly different looking from the real deal and named differently you can't enjoy the experience? All you are doing is nitpicking. It's not like they've gone and made something completely up. You can't expect them not to use some creative freedom.

It's not like it's training you to fly the real thing, so absolute perfect authenticity isn't and shouldn't be a goal.

Anyway, my point was that regardless of how accurate you represent it, it's still an abstraction. You're not actual flying a real aircraft, but as long as the experience is close enough that's all that matters. And for most people, close enough is not 100%... If you have some strange mental problem that makes you unable to abstract because of some minute details then that's not the game's fault.

[GepardenK 0]

Ill fly anything, i don't need a brand name

This may sound good on paper but in real life it might just get you killed!

I learned this last week when I tried flying a brick. I started off a cliff and it worked for a few seconds too, but maintaining altitude was a bit harder than expected and I ended up crashing. Now I have no legs, which is a shame because I kinda need them to fly that bulldozer next friday

Also, I`m bored waiting for dinner to warm

[nightsta1ker 10]

Hueyman, I feel your pain and return it with a renewed sense of frustration, but we are going to have to just take what we can get here. And SamB is right, within a few months there will be tons of realistic add ons available from the mod community. As long as the base program allows for realistic simulation, the rest will fall into place.

[Hueyman 10]

Ok Nightstalker. I see you're a Hughes 300 pilot, nice bird !

One is currently building for X-Plane :

http://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?showtopic=47649

Ok for that, I trust in mods, just hope the physical engine core will be as realistic as possible !

[nightsta1ker 10]

Ok Nightstalker. I see you're a Hughes 300 pilot, nice bird !

One is currently building for X-Plane :

http://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?showtopic=47649

Ok for that, I trust in mods, just hope the physical engine core will be as realistic as possible !

You and me both, brother!

[PuFu 4591]

on the subject = why they are not real.

if the models are not 100% exact, but some fictional mix only resembling with some RL choppers, would allow the developers to release those as samples for modders, without fearing that someone sells their models on the 3d market (it is hard to sell something that is not really fictional, innovative, neither exact to the T).

they'll definitely need to put some information and examples on the table in order to boost the devs (it is not like you can use your previous EX for the working nobs for instance)

[subs17 9]

Technically, even if they were 100% accurate and had the real names, they are still fictional since they are still only digital representations of the real things... :rolleyes:

Thats bollocks, its a flight simulation and therefore needs a proper simulation of a real aircraft. For actual sim pilots its a big deal since they are the sort of people that study what they fly. If not then its an arcade game so only worthy of a console release. Theres a unique opportunity here for BI to expand A3/A2 into realistic flight simulation if they decided to which merges the most realistic FPS with a realistic heli sim. I think that since A2 allows multicontroller support its a step in the direction away from consoles and in the direction of people who take flying a little more seriously in MP. They are already talking about it on the FSX forums where 99% simmers hang out. And they are not impressed.

[Big Dawg KS 6]

Cause a closely based fictional version definately makes it completelty unrealistic and arcadey...

Let them be unimpressed. The game will speak for itself.

[Daniel 0]

Thats bollocks, its a flight simulation and therefore needs a proper simulation of a real aircraft. For actual sim pilots its a big deal since they are the sort of people that study what they fly. If not then its an arcade game so only worthy of a console release. Theres a unique opportunity here for BI to expand A3/A2 into realistic flight simulation if they decided to which merges the most realistic FPS with a realistic heli sim. I think that since A2 allows multicontroller support its a step in the direction away from consoles and in the direction of people who take flying a little more seriously in MP. They are already talking about it on the FSX forums where 99% simmers hang out. And they are not impressed.

I don't quite understand what they're unimpressed about? What are these "actual flight sim pilots" intending to simulate exactly, the "simulation" of staring at a virtual helicopter? Because the rest of us have slightly more focused expectations concerning handling and a realistic environment. Surely they understand BIS must have its reasons for altering the designs slightly, and that even BIS expect the community to build models that are accurate real world representations.

But like Big Dawg said, let them be unimpressed. The rest of us are going to enjoy the only sim with 2011 visuals, realistic handling, a highly detailed environment and the ability to step outside...

[4 IN 1 0]

I don't quite understand what they're unimpressed about? What are these "actual flight sim pilots" intending to simulate exactly, the "simulation" of staring at a virtual helicopter? Because the rest of us have slightly more focused expectations concerning handling and a realistic environment. Surely they understand BIS must have its reasons for altering the designs slightly, and that even BIS expect the community to build models that are accurate real world representations.

But like Big Dawg said, let them be unimpressed. The rest of us are going to enjoy the only sim with 2011 visuals, realistic handling, a highly detailed environment and the ability to step outside...

They are "simmers", they want every bolt and nut to be on the exact place

[ryguy 10]

They are already talking about it on the FSX forums where 99% simmers hang out. And they are not impressed.

O rly? Not quite what I've been seeing...

[nethawk 10]

Sorry to interrupt, but can "someone" please explain to me, where BIS said that they are aiming at the hardcore sim-pilots?

I think this debate is pointless, BIS have their reason to have this kinda models, and I'm sure it's a good one. I for one will buy this game, no matter if it's 100% accurate, but because it will be challenging, fun, and I know I'll have a lot of fun with the community and the addons/mods they create.

Now bashing on in-accurate designs on a game that has an alpha (or beta) preview, is out of place for my tastes, as for one, the models might change in the future, secondly, who cares if the model is not 100% right when you have great gameplay? and thirdly, there are FAR MORE IMPORTANT problems at hand.

Those who want 100% realistic models, got FSX, and they have their games, mods and community. If I am right and BIS is aiming at this current community plus a couple new folks, then it will be a hit no-matter the models.

I know lot's of folks who'll enjoy playing multiplayer missions in helicopters, and would take a second look at what exactly they are flying, as long as they have a "realistic" feeling to it.

[subs17 9]

Those who want 100% realistic models, got FSX, and they have their games, mods and community.

No they don't FSX does not simulate aircraft 100% particularly helicopters, DCS KA50 on the otherhand models 90% which is quite close. BTW my problem with not using real aircraft to simulate makes it more difficult for BI to model the aircraft. A helicopter simulation requires actual FM data, avionics etc. You can't simulate something that is just imagined to any degree of realism. I'll wait for its full release and see how it goes hopefully if it has an SDK the community could make some decent addons with realistic performance. I don't see any reason why a company would choose to create a helicopter simulator with out first visiting an actual aircraft manufacturer etc to get some solid data on what it is they are trying to simulate. I doubt any aircraft manufacturer would turn down some free advertising for their aircraft in a simulation which could lead to more sales of the selected aircraft.

[nightsta1ker 10]

As a "simmer" I can say that I resent the comment about needing every nut and bolt in the right place. It's already been addressed that every airframe has it's subtle differences. I don't expect a perfect replica of an MD-500 or other aircraft, but I do not feel that there is any reason for them to creat completely fictional models either.

However, it is what it is and it's not going to change. BIS have put their foot down on this one. Let's get over it already.

[max power 21]

I remember back in the 80s and early 90s when simulation games focussed much more on gameplay than simulating the tension on every last screw. I'm very much awaiting this game. It seems like it's in the spirit of games like F-19 Stealth Fighter or Strike Commander, where they take a (very, ihmo) interesting aspect of flight and simulate it, and then give you an actual game to play. It's not all about the emergent game play of flipping switches, or the tests of endurance of reading a 1000 page manual or a transcontinental flight that's so long that you smell like feet wrapped in burnt bacon at the end. At the end of the day it seems like we have a very fun and challenging flight model to master, too. I'm really looking forward to it. The people in the FSX community will be missing out.

[liquidpinky 11]

BIS have already shown pictures of the MD-500 they were using as reference in the sneak preview ages ago, albeit a tail rotor less MD-520 NOTAR model.

They have also mentioned that they have a pilot who is giving them feedback on the flight model etc in one of the feedback threads.

So I think it possibly going to be more realistic than you give credit for.

There may however be a rivet or two missing on the odd heli.

[subs17 9]

I'm not worried about rivets but I can imagine the difficulty in making a sim of a fictional aircraft the hard part is the FM etc. Some of those aircraft might also be FBW so are they modelling autopilot and trim etc. What about NAV is it going to feature VORTAC, GPS, TACAN etc, Radio freqs and ATC. It would be cool to have ARMA2/3 have a mod that allows helicopters with these features flyable in MP if they expand this there is alot of potential another idea is to allow A2/3 to have terrain of actual places which also feature real life TACAN/VOR/ILS/NDB stations. In DCS there is a radio station and it actually transmits music ingame, you can use it as a NDB and if you blow it up it stops transmitting. Such features are nice and I think possible on todays multicore PCs. I think birds nest though takes the cake as uber realism.:D

---------- Post added at 12:28 AM ---------- Previous post was Yesterday at 11:54 PM ----------

I no longer have any compaints as I've just flown the preview, awesome work BI.