ARMA 3, E3 Coverage (reveals)

[BKnight3 0]

Hopefully BIS does what it feels is necessary, and doesn't just try to imitate others. Anyway, my point isn't that BIS shouldn't take inspiration from other games, but using a comparison to completely different games as a reason to criticize ArmA is not productive.

The argument that "game X can do it so ArmA should have it" is flawed in all cases where game X is not directly related to ArmA.

So universal calling for a medic from BF2 is flawed?

So many times an ignorant teammate starts tking me when I'm medic because he's yelling over his squad radio he's wounded and gets tired of me not hearing him even though he's right next to me. The problem being me being in another squad.

Green = Friendly

Red = Enemy

Apparently that system is too complex and not universal, last time I've checked Arma 2 still has Friendly Fire incidents from stuff like this.

Seriously, common sense stuff still didn't make it in, and its been how long since release?

[metalcraze 290]

So many times an ignorant teammate starts tking me when I'm medic because he's yelling over his squad radio he's wounded and gets tired of me not hearing him even though he's right next to me. The problem being me being in another squad.

Green = Friendly

Red = Enemy

Apparently that system is too complex and not universal, last time I've checked Arma 2 still has Friendly Fire incidents from stuff like this.

Seriously, common sense stuff still didn't make it in, and its been how long since release?

I have played BIS games since OFP, I've played as a medic a lot - and not a single time I had problems like these.

Whenever the dude is wounded he can always call a medic on TS or type in side chat as a last measure

Don't play with morons?

[Big Dawg KS 6]

Why being so incredibly conservative ? It's about time that vehicle doors can be opened, it's very easy to do, and it isn't absolutely necessary to create perfectly matching entering animations

But what about the modders who want to make vastly different vehicles, and none of the animations for the BIS vehicles match theirs well enough? There becomes a point where certain features become overkill, and more importantly it's very difficult to balance flexibility and detailed/highly specialized functionality. The more you specialize something, the less flexible it becomes; that is why some level of abstraction is needed.

RO2 tanks is a good example, since they've reached a point where flexibility has been thrown out the window; imagine trying to mod your own tanks into the game using the same level of detail as Tripwire. Ok, I'll admit I have no idea how flexible their system is, but one can only imagine how little abstraction there must be for something so detailed.

---------- Post added at 02:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:39 PM ----------

So universal calling for a medic from BF2 is flawed?

So many times an ignorant teammate starts tking me when I'm medic because he's yelling over his squad radio he's wounded and gets tired of me not hearing him even though he's right next to me. The problem being me being in another squad.

Green = Friendly

Red = Enemy

Apparently that system is too complex and not universal, last time I've checked Arma 2 still has Friendly Fire incidents from stuff like this.

Seriously, common sense stuff still didn't make it in, and its been how long since release?

What the hell are you talking about? ArmA has all of these things, but to reiterate my point since you obviously don't get it: It's not about whether said things would be good to have in ArmA, but making the argument that "ArmA should have it just because BF2 has it" is stupid. The proper argument is "ArmA should have it because it's a useful feature that the game is currently lacking." In the case of animated entry into vehicles, there's not a whole lot were missing out on because of this. It'd be a cool feature to have, but to implement it just for the sake of some other game already having it is absurd.

[ProfTournesol 956]

But what about the modders who want to make vastly different vehicles, and none of the animations for the BIS vehicles match theirs well enough? There becomes a point where certain features become overkill, and more importantly it's very difficult to balance flexibility and detailed/highly specialized functionality. The more you specialize something, the less flexible it becomes; that is why some level of abstraction is needed.

RO2 tanks is a good example, since they've reached a point where flexibility has been thrown out the window; imagine trying to mod your own tanks into the game using the same level of detail as Tripwire. Ok, I'll admit I have no idea how flexible their system is, but one can only imagine how little abstraction there must be for something so detailed.

This game needs to progress, so ragdoll, cqb (i know what you think about knife) and opening doors would add to immersion. Thanks god, BIS is making his game progressing, if not we would stick to the first poseidon engine :

UrPo9jmnkDw

[BKnight3 0]

I have played BIS games since OFP, I've played as a medic a lot - and not a single time I had problems like these.

Whenever the dude is wounded he can always call a medic on TS or type in side chat as a last measure

Don't play with morons?

And I'm sure you think the system's perfect. In BF2, I'd get a HUD, minimap display, and a blatant call for "medic" (even though it should be corpsman) over the "radio" no matter where he is on the map, no matter what squad, as long as he's on the same team. No need to say where i was, it gave a big icon to my position.

I used to play on KH and still had problems with retarded medic requests.

With the Friendly fire seriously fix the damned thing.

Some people think its absolutely a bad idea to steal an enemy tank and use it against them. So I just hijack a tank, fix it up, and lo and behold, I get killed because "YOU'RE RED, YOU'RE ENEMY."

ArmA's perfect I bet.

---------- Post added at 06:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:47 PM ----------

What the hell are you talking about? ArmA has all of these things, but to reiterate my point since you obviously don't get it: It's not about whether said things would be good to have in ArmA, but making the argument that "ArmA should have it just because BF2 has it" is stupid. The proper argument is "ArmA should have it because it's a useful feature that the game is currently lacking." In the case of animated entry into vehicles, there's not a whole lot were missing out on because of this. It'd be a cool feature to have, but to implement it just for the sake of some other game already having it is absurd.

Seriously, disable an enemy tank, fix it up and use it against the enemy.

That is what I try to do most games, but some people just don't understand the logic.

Countless times I've been blown up by friendlies, even spamming on global chat, VOIP, etc.

[liquidpinky 11]

Some people think its absolutely a bad idea to steal an enemy tank and use it against them. So I just hijack a tank, fix it up, and lo and behold, I get killed because "YOU'RE RED, YOU'RE ENEMY."

ArmA's perfect I bet.

It also has your name in red, deosn't do it with enemy tanks. Stop playing with trigger happy morons and ffs don't give them any TWS equipped weapons because they are too tarded to identify before firing either.

[Big Dawg KS 6]

This game needs to progress

Progress always has some cost associated with it. ;)

[.Taffy 10]

And I'm sure you think the system's perfect. In BF2, I'd get a HUD, minimap display, and a blatant call for "medic" (even though it should be corpsman) over the "radio" no matter where he is on the map, no matter what squad, as long as he's on the same team. No need to say where i was, it gave a big icon to my position.

I used to play on KH and still had problems with retarded medic requests.

With the Friendly fire seriously fix the damned thing.

Some people think its absolutely a bad idea to steal an enemy tank and use it against them. So I just hijack a tank, fix it up, and lo and behold, I get killed because "YOU'RE RED, YOU'RE ENEMY."

ArmA's perfect I bet.

---------- Post added at 06:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:47 PM ----------

Seriously, disable an enemy tank, fix it up and use it against the enemy.

That is what I try to do most games, but some people just don't understand the logic.

Countless times I've been blown up by friendlies, even spamming on global chat, VOIP, etc.

Well some of those features in BF2 aren't very realistic and with ArmA being a Military Simulator it's right that these things can't be done. The answer is effective communication which I realise is unfortunately missing on some public servers but personally I don't think those elements of the game should change because of that.

[Big Dawg KS 6]

Seriously, disable an enemy tank, fix it up and use it against the enemy.

That is what I try to do most games, but some people just don't understand the logic.

Countless times I've been blown up by friendlies, even spamming on global chat, VOIP, etc.

Now you've lost me bro. Come back when you figure out how to string your ideas together in meaningful ways rather than jumping around randomly...

[BKnight3 0]

It also has your name in red, deosn't do it with enemy tanks. Stop playing with trigger happy morons and ffs don't give them any TWS equipped weapons because they are too tarded to identify before firing either.

Confirming universal recognition system of RED = ENEMY/GREEN = FRIENDLY, is too good for ArmA/ArmA2.

---------- Post added at 06:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:55 PM ----------

Now you've lost me bro. Come back when you figure out how to string your ideas together in meaningful ways rather than jumping around randomly...

HOW THE HELL IS THIS TOO HARD TO UNDERSTAND?

I disable an enemy vehicle, KILL THE CREW, I fix the enemy vehicle, I use it as my own, I HIJACK THE DAMNED VEHICLE.

I USE SAID VEHICLE AGAINST THE ENEMY.

Everyone on my team then STILL THINKS THE TANK IS ENEMY BECAUSE I AM HIGHLIGHTED RED, EVEN THOUGH I AM FRIENDLY.

I am SERIOUSLY thinking you may have teamkilled me once because this idea is so foreign to you.

[Steakslim 1]

It's not a normal thing to use an enemy vehicle, and usually it's smart to broadcast in both voice chat (TS) and in text chat that you are in an enemy vehicle, list the type it is (t72, btr60, or what ever) and pray that some CAS pilot doesn't snuff you out anyways.

But again, realistically you don't have US troops jumping into a Russian tank knowing how to read the controls and operate it. If you jump into one in game, you have to take the risk that you'll be killed mistakenly.

[BKnight3 0]

Well some of those features in BF2 aren't very realistic and with ArmA being a Military Simulator it's right that these things can't be done. The answer is effective communication which I realise is unfortunately missing on some public servers but personally I don't think those elements of the game should change because of that.

So if I have friendly forces right next to me, if he is in another squad asking for help, I can't hear him?

That sounds like a game mechanic thing rather than a team communication thing.

[Big Dawg KS 6]

...needless angry rant...

Woah, it's not that I don't understand what you're saying, but I don't understand how it relates at all to what I was (and what I thought you were too) originally talking about. :confused:

And just for the record, how can you expect to go driving around in an enemy vehicle and not expect friendlies to assume you're hostile? With the proper communication you can avoid these issues, but that is how it should work.

---------- Post added at 03:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:07 PM ----------

So if I have friendly forces right next to me, if he is in another squad asking for help, I can't hear him?

That sounds like a game mechanic thing rather than a team communication thing.

There you go again jumping around to another topic... :nono:

[BKnight3 0]

It's not a normal thing to use an enemy vehicle, and usually it's smart to broadcast in both voice chat (TS) and in text chat that you are in an enemy vehicle, list the type it is (t72, btr60, or what ever) and pray that some CAS pilot doesn't snuff you out anyways.

But again, realistically you don't have US troops jumping into a Russian tank knowing how to read the controls and operate it. If you jump into one in game, you have to take the risk that you'll be killed mistakenly.

Read my post again, I was indeed spamming the hell out of text/voice.

FYI, I was mostly killed by infantry, with more than one occasion being satcheled....

Also, going on EU servers like KH tends to bring in people that don't speak english sometimes. RED = ENEMY seems to win with that.

Also keep in mind tanks are meant to be VERY user friendly. Tanks can be driven by tractor driving farmboys for a reason.

[metalcraze 290]

And I'm sure you think the system's perfect.

Neither me, nor the multitude of people I played with had a single problem with this. ArmA2 even has direct comms with proper 3D positioning and you can call for medic with your mic.

In BF2, I'd get a HUD, minimap display, and a blatant call for "medic" (even though it should be corpsman) over the "radio" no matter where he is on the map, no matter what squad, as long as he's on the same team. No need to say where i was, it gave a big icon to my position.

I'm sure you perfectly realize that ArmA is a different game and one of its strongest points is that it's different from BF2.

I used to play on KH and still had problems with retarded medic requests.

With the Friendly fire seriously fix the damned thing.

Some people think its absolutely a bad idea to steal an enemy tank and use it against them. So I just hijack a tank, fix it up, and lo and behold, I get killed because "YOU'RE RED, YOU'RE ENEMY."

Tell people you are not the enemy? How should they know?

Also there is no "friendly fire" in ArmA games. Bullets just kill people.

You seem to think that all things that make ArmA a great game are bugs.

Dude you try to play ArmA as a BF2 game on public servers with people treating it like BF2 too and you complain? Maybe the problem lies within you?

Edited June 9, 2011 by metalcraze

[BKnight3 0]

There you go again jumping around to another topic... :nono:

Again, I'm not.

Again, with BF2, regardless of where you are, no matter what squad you are in, no matter what language you speak, you have the ability to simply ask for tactical help and be understood.

BY DEFAULT, BY GAME CODE.

With Arma 2, if you are NOT in the same squad, but on the same side, you CANNOT hear any form of support requests unless using TS, Vent.

BY DEFAULT, BY GAME CODE.

[Big Dawg KS 6]

Bullets just kill people.

But they don't kill birds. :p

---------- Post added at 03:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:17 PM ----------

<Still not the topic of comparing ArmA with other games>

I've given up with you. You seem to lack a certain awareness of what you're talking about. I'll let metalcraze give it a shot.

[metalcraze 290]

Again, with BF2, regardless of where you are, no matter what squad you are in, no matter what language you speak, you have the ability to simply ask for tactical help and be understood.

BY DEFAULT, BY GAME CODE.

Which is utterly unrealistic. How the hell you as a wounded dude 2 kms away are able to let other people know your exact position

With Arma 2, if you are NOT in the same squad, but on the same side, you CANNOT hear any form of support requests unless using TS, Vent.

BY DEFAULT, BY GAME CODE.

Which is a bull. Switch to sidechat, push CAPS LOCK and everyone can hear your voice spam.

On servers I play we obviously never use even this, preferring ACRE instead which makes communications even more realistic with landscape distorting audio

[BKnight3 0]

Neither me, nor the multitude of people I played with had a single problem with this. ArmA2 even has direct comms with proper 3D positioning and you can call for medic with your mic.

So I'm guessing you are on a clan server, with everyone with the same language? Lucky you.

[metalcraze 290]

I always play with clans. And I'm not a member of any. I just like when stuff is organized.

When everyone has TS forced on him - stupid stuff rarely happens, if ever

[BKnight3 0]

Which is utterly unrealistic.

If the team all play US Marines for example, they all speak THE SAME LANGUAGE.

It's logical that if one member calls for help, ITS IN THE SAME LANGUAGE.

If I am right next you, even though you speak a different language, using the ingame interface to call for help you should get the message that I need help.

As it stands, using the ingame mechanics, one squad cannot ask for support from another squad using said interface.

[kylania 566]

BKnight, you seem confused that the great majority of people that play ArmA play it because it's a simulator, realistic, and not a icony arcade fest that shooters are.

That's why color coded red/green markers is a no go, why a "call medic button" when you could realistically have no way of contacting a medic is a no go, why fully repairing enemy armor and expecting it to magically be considered friendly because of all the hard work you did is a no go.

Play on Veteran with ACE/ACRE and the game is an entirely new experience. Play it Recruit and expect it to be like Battlefield and it'll be disappointing.

To be honest though, realism settings aside, it does sound like you play with a gaggle of BFoons who are too stupid to operate a sock much less be trusted with operating a rifle. Find a server with intelligent players who check targets and have situational awareness and I think you'll enjoy things much more.

Edit: After reading the four posts you made in the time it took me to type this one, really you're just playing the wrong game with the wrong people. Don't do that to be happy.

Edited June 9, 2011 by kylania

[Steakslim 1]

Read my post again, I was indeed spamming the hell out of text/voice.

FYI, I was mostly killed by infantry, with more than one occasion being satcheled....

Also, going on EU servers like KH tends to bring in people that don't speak english sometimes. RED = ENEMY seems to win with that.

Also keep in mind tanks are meant to be VERY user friendly. Tanks can be driven by tractor driving farmboys for a reason.

No i don't need to read it again. I'm just pointing out there's no full proof way of using enemy vehicles and assume you are completely safe unless you are in a mission with a relatively small team (like 8 people....together). And also that realistically using enemy vehicles isn't a good idea anyways, in fact some missions/servers/mods prevent it entirely depending on the vehicle itself.

[BKnight3 0]

BKnight, you seem confused that the great majority of people that play ArmA play it because it's a simulator, realistic, and not a icony arcade fest that shooters are.

That's why color coded red/green markers is a no go, why a "call medic button" when you could realistically have no way of contacting a medic is a no go, why fully repairing enemy armor and expecting it to magically be considered friendly because of all the hard work you did is a no go.

Play on Veteran with ACE/ACRE and the game is an entirely new experience. Play it Recruit and expect it to be like Battlefield and it'll be disappointing.

To be honest though, realism settings aside, it does sound like you play with a gaggle of BFoons who are too stupid to operate a sock much less be trusted with operating a rifle. Find a server with intelligent players who check targets and have situational awareness and I think you'll enjoy things much more.

ACE/ACRE are automatic on Arma 2? Its not modded in?

That's news to me.

I'm not asking for a goddamn "I need a medic button," I'm asking the Arma system of saying "I'm wounded, I need a corpsman now" interface THAT IS IN THE GAME BY DEFAULT LOOK IT UP work so a teammate from a different squad can understand me.

FYI, I've played the hell out of the game.

It's no where near perfect, if you think CQC should work like what BIS imagines then fine.

[NoRailgunner 0]

Try the ingame action call - "I'm wounded" - IIRC its press key 5 and then 4.

If your buddies are teamplayer they will have an eye on you and help you. But if you only do you own lonewolf rambostyle - don't expect any support.