Plane and Helicopter realism poll.

[5LEvEN 11]

The Realism Option:

All aircraft require skilled pilots and devoted time to learn to fly.

The aircraft will handle like in real life.

The aircraft will not be simple, but complex like in real life.

Controls are similar to real life.

The pilot has to worry about real life factors (fuel mixture for example).

Fuel and weight usage = more power you use, the faster it goes down, the more weight on your aircraft the more power required to lift or do actions. (as as altitude) [zebby5000]

Advanced lift - you can only attach vehicles/equipment that are witting the limits of the aircraft. / perhaps a new lift system. [zebby5000]

Wind

Semi-Realism Option:

Aircraft handle realistically.

Aircraft require some skill.

Aircraft do not take long to learn.

Aircraft controls are streamlined for casual pilots.

Pilot only has to worry about control over the plane (things like fuel mixture is no longer a factor).

Wind

Arcade Option:

Aircraft handle so it is very easy to control.

Controls are streamlined for anyone to learn and use quickly.

Pilot only has to worry about control over plane (things like fuel mixture is no longer a factor).

Edit:

What is meant by fuel mixture is the ratio of oxygen to fuel..

:) Note: Options may slightly change due to my inability to think of everything for each option. The already mentioned things for each option will not change. The only changes that will take place will be adding to each option. This way each option can become more defined. If you do not know, or believe an option will change based on something please do not vote yet. Wait until you are satisfied with each option as it is defined, than vote. Please post any further ways that can be added to define each option. Thank you for reading this. :)

Edited June 10, 2011 by 5LEvEN

[vfn4i83 0]

You know this game isnt BF3? Right!

[5LEvEN 11]

You know this game isnt BF3? Right!

Yes. I think everyone knows that. What makes you ask that question?

[jhoson14 10]

Crap, wish there was a 4° option "5Eleven stop creating uselles topic and polls"

[vfn4i83 0]

Yes. I think everyone knows that. What makes you ask that question?

Nothing; nothing at all! :j:

Edited June 7, 2011 by vfn4i83

[5LEvEN 11]

Crap, wish there was a 4° option "5Eleven stop creating uselles topic and polls"

Sorry :o

[Macadam Cow 1]

I'd love to see something similar to Lock On. Unfortunately I think it's too late for this kind of wishes/suggestion. I guess the dev schedule is already planned and there shouldn't too much time left to integrate this kind of stuff, especially we you realise the amount of time they spend drinking, burying map in the Czech country side or playing darts on a OFP DR copy :D

[zooloo75 833]

You already know the answer to your poll. Everyone in here wants realism. Please just stop with your nonsense.

[.kju 3240]

Thankfully due to ToH the helicopter simulation will be improved.

Right now it has serious flaws like too low lift and too high drag.

[demonized 20]

id like the heli and plane handling to be kept as is, now its not to easy to master and can be picked up by new players aswell.

BIS should just focus on eliminating small bugs in it and nothing more imo.

Maybe implement TOH controls for TOH owners.

there is already a thread with indebt discussion on this topic:

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=120208

but they didnt have the poll soo i guess you just had to. :j:

@ vfn4i83 AND jhoson14, i lolled good when i saw your comments.

rant start-

@OP, you should stop trying to turn Arma3 into a BF or COD type game.

If there would be a poll about:

1: who thinks OP is bad for Arma3 and would want him banned from the game and the forums.

2: he is an upstanding Arma community member wich aims to further improve Arma3 and preserve its main core without going the BF/COD way.

3: he should be hunted down and eliminated.

where do you think the poll would end?

i mean, you have managed to piss off most of the community with your different suggestions, all pointing in the way of COD/BF, exept this one wich kindof has the "suggested" i want realism since its listed first in poll, but we know where you are going with this..

come on, you are the first one ive seen in these forums that actually have been wished dead!

and these forums do support a political thread.... :butbut:

And ofc the "race" card(COD/BF) i s being used against us now, since we dont bother to go into detail time and time again about why we dislike or disapprove on your suggestions.

bottom line is:

* Arma anyVersionNumber should be a military simulator dedicated to the misson, wether usermade or official.

* Some sacrifices is made because of gameplay or limitations, like in flying wich is impacted by both.

* There is and should never be a leveling system unless a mission designer creates it for his mission wich is fine, since its his choise and creation, you can to in your user created missions, just pick up on scripting and get to work, this is the beauty of Arma.

* Having unlockables based on leveling or anything else will also mess up the game in so many ways, weapons provided are decided by mission designer specifically for his mission.

Having javelins for 50 level players as a takistan insurgent would seriously remove all kinds of realism, (back to COD / BF argument, you see why?)

* Having stats would also go against everything Arma series stand for, as they will make people aim for certain goals instead of focusing on achieving the mission in good coop form, and military simulation.

this you can also create for yourself in your own mission if so desired, look at above point.

* Many times i enjoy flying transport heli in MP, and end up after several hours with not a single kill and maybe 1 or no deaths.

maybe even i end up with -1 points on the "I" button stats because i crashed or got shot down.

* If i wanted death stats, id just fire up editor create a mission, SP or MP and script in automated kills, flying, driving, sniping, stealthing, jumping, climbing, swimming, exploding, dying, masturbating, civvi killing, building razing, repairing, refuelling, rearming etc etc etc for my playing unit.., leave it on for the night and next day i would be "ALMIGHTY GOD OF ARMA3"

Only way to control this would be to remove the editor or drastically block the freedom to create whatever kind of mission and scripts you want.

Try putting up a poll if BIS should remove the editor?

I would think that instead of death wishes or threats, you would get actual visitors on your door....

People responding to your threads, may come off as rude or ignorant, but they are just fed up with your responses to logical mature explanations in your previous threads and respond quickly to make sure everyone knows at least where they stand, by posting, "go play BF or CO" or similar.

telling us to read your post again, will not alter the fact that MANY disagrees and generally dislike anyone for seriously suggesting what you do, and why on earth do you asume we havent read OP before responding....

rant end-

[EricM 0]

You already know the answer to your poll. Everyone in here wants realism. Please just stop with your nonsense.

No. Semi-realistic is fine, the way it is in Arma 2 for the most part. Maybe a tad more advanced but I don't want DCS black shark or A10 or even FSX.

[5LEvEN 11]

id like the heli and plane handling to be kept as is, now its not to easy to master and can be picked up by new players aswell.

BIS should just focus on eliminating small bugs in it and nothing more imo.

Maybe implement TOH controls for TOH owners.

there is already a thread with indebt discussion on this topic:

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=120208

but they didnt have the poll soo i guess you just had to. :j:

@ vfn4i83 AND jhoson14, i lolled good when i saw your comments.

rant start-

@OP, you should stop trying to turn Arma3 into a BF or COD type game.

If there would be a poll about:

1: who thinks OP is bad for Arma3 and would want him banned from the game and the forums.

2: he is an upstanding Arma community member wich aims to further improve Arma3 and preserve its main core without going the BF/COD way.

3: he should be hunted down and eliminated.

where do you think the poll would end?

i mean, you have managed to piss off most of the community with your different suggestions, all pointing in the way of COD/BF, exept this one wich kindof has the "suggested" i want realism since its listed first in poll, but we know where you are going with this..

come on, you are the first one ive seen in these forums that actually have been wished dead!

and these forums do support a political thread.... :butbut:

And ofc the "race" card(COD/BF) i s being used against us now, since we dont bother to go into detail time and time again about why we dislike or disapprove on your suggestions.

bottom line is:

* Arma anyVersionNumber should be a military simulator dedicated to the misson, wether usermade or official.

* Some sacrifices is made because of gameplay or limitations, like in flying wich is impacted by both.

* There is and should never be a leveling system unless a mission designer creates it for his mission wich is fine, since its his choise and creation, you can to in your user created missions, just pick up on scripting and get to work, this is the beauty of Arma.

* Having unlockables based on leveling or anything else will also mess up the game in so many ways, weapons provided are decided by mission designer specifically for his mission.

Having javelins for 50 level players as a takistan insurgent would seriously remove all kinds of realism, (back to COD / BF argument, you see why?)

* Having stats would also go against everything Arma series stand for, as they will make people aim for certain goals instead of focusing on achieving the mission in good coop form, and military simulation.

this you can also create for yourself in your own mission if so desired, look at above point.

* Many times i enjoy flying transport heli in MP, and end up after several hours with not a single kill and maybe 1 or no deaths.

maybe even i end up with -1 points on the "I" button stats because i crashed or got shot down.

* If i wanted death stats, id just fire up editor create a mission, SP or MP and script in automated kills, flying, driving, sniping, stealthing, jumping, climbing, swimming, exploding, dying, masturbating, civvi killing, building razing, repairing, refuelling, rearming etc etc etc for my playing unit.., leave it on for the night and next day i would be "ALMIGHTY GOD OF ARMA3"

Only way to control this would be to remove the editor or drastically block the freedom to create whatever kind of mission and scripts you want.

Try putting up a poll if BIS should remove the editor?

I would think that instead of death wishes or threats, you would get actual visitors on your door....

People responding to your threads, may come off as rude or ignorant, but they are just fed up with your responses to logical mature explanations in your previous threads and respond quickly to make sure everyone knows at least where they stand, by posting, "go play BF or CO" or similar.

telling us to read your post again, will not alter the fact that MANY disagrees and generally dislike anyone for seriously suggesting what you do, and why on earth do you asume we havent read OP before responding....

rant end-

I am just going to take a guess that you have not seen my updated OP for the leveling thread... I stated that I gave up on it, because it would not work, and you guys are right, it would ruin arma... Out of all of the hours I have played arma (waaaaay to many count) about half of the time if not a little more I am flying. Whether it be a wreck(domi)/transport/attack aircraft, I am flying...Providing A10 CAS was my specialty, but I have grown to be more of a rifleman in a squad (since the servers I play on sometimes lock aircraft esp. the a10). That is why I want realism, because I enjoy flying. Just so you know, No I am not one of the two that voted for arcade...

I posted this poll because I saw the other thread and it looked like the community did not have a definite answer to how aircraft should handle. So I was curious on where the community stood on this subject. Statistics, I decided would have have to be private and leave out kills and deaths.... Yes the mission could do it, but I would like to see it global (I am not the only one :) ). Why would someone want the editor removed? It is what makes arma even more unique...

I never responded to a logical and mature explanation and tried to say other wise. If I did please tell me where and I will tell you why... I tell people to read my post again because they are asking something I have already said, or they put words in my mouth... I only ask people to reread when something was already stated, or was stated differently. If you or the community as whole are looking for an apology from me, don't expect it (based on the way people post hate towards me :( ). I will not apologize for making a simple suggestion... If anything people should apologize for over reacting. I mean come on would you really post something like "This person deserves to die" because they made a suggestion and you did not like it. I have done nothing wrong... Maybe I should leave the forums (I will NOT leave the game though), based on the hate I seem to attract... :(

Edited June 8, 2011 by 5LEvEN
Took NodUnit's advice and spaced paragraph into smaller paragraphs :D

[nodunit 397]

Just a small suggestion, space your post into paragraphs otherwise many people won't respond due to not reading it due to being a 'wall of text'.

You shouldn't take the 'attacks' too personally, that is bound to come to the person who suggests anything that would derail the 'realism' slightly, even if optional, take the future setting threads, female soldiers and so on.

[Aodan 10]

I would love to see some realism in the aviation sector of ArmA finally. Something like (at least near to) FSX? That would be amazing. There are things like LockOn and the VRS SuperBug addon for FSX that are good examples of modern aircombat sims. I think ArmA2 could have used that.

[neokika 62]

fuel mixture for example

:D

What a nonsense. You are saying that flying a aircraft in a game is more realistic if you need to care about fuel mixture? C'mon...

In a operation lets say, you think the pilot is the one filling the aircraft fuel tank before the operation?

What about giving at least reasonable suggestions that may enhance the realism feel of the game so people can vote properly.

_neo_

[5LEvEN 11]

:D

What a nonsense. You are saying that flying a aircraft in a game is more realistic if you need to care about fuel mixture? C'mon...

In a operation lets say, you think the pilot is the one filling the aircraft fuel tank before the operation?

What about giving at least reasonable suggestions that may enhance the realism feel of the game so people can vote properly.

_neo_

I figured someone would say that... but I left it as it is, figuring any pilot or hard core SIM player would know what I meant... What I mean by fuel mixture is the ratio of oxygen to fuel... Yes this is a real factor... Please if you would like to add something let me know... After all its why I put the note at the bottom... :D

[zooloo75 833]

" :D "

:j:

[zebby5000 13]

The reason we need to say this thread even though everybody knows the answers, is so that we basically go to BI instead of them coming to us. / make it known what we want.

3 things to realisim factor,

1. hovering in place too long creates a vacuum and you start to fall.. (I.E. No more air under your wings).

2. Fuel and weight usage = more power you use, the faster it goes down, the more weight on your aircraft the more power required to lift or do actions. (as as altitude)

3. Advanced lift - you can only attach vehicles/equipment that are witting the limits of the aircraft. / perhaps a new lift system.

Edited June 8, 2011 by zebby5000

[tom_ 10]

the realism like in a real flight simulator game like microsoft flight simulator or f22 lightning is the way to go, arma is a war simulator and this the next step! who disagree, the market is full with arcade games like battlefield.

[nodunit 397]

Only problem is you can't simulate one aspect, and when you do that people will want more infantry simulation, then wheeled simulation, then armor and fixed wing. I'm sure the engine itself can handle it but can our computers.

[zebby5000 13]

Computers won't be a problem, my new rig I'm building only costs 850$ total and it meets more than the recommended. By the time the game is released I wouldn't be surprised if it drops to 400$ for the same equipment.

Though the cycle of wanting more simulation I do agree will always continue.

[Saint7 10]

3 things to realisim factor,

1. hovering in place too long creates a vacuum and you start to fall.. (I.E. No more air under your wings).

While your points 2 and 3 sense, point 1 here is actually wrong.

I'm not flaming you bro as I do not expect everyone to know about helos in detail so with all due respect let me explain in basic terms:

In fact the exact opposite happens in real life with a helo.

A helicopter does not create a vacuum and start to fall when in the hover in ground effect (H.I.G.E.), it actually creates a "ground cushion" which assists the helo to hover. With hover out of ground effect (H.O.G.E.) on the other hand, the hover does require more power in real life to hover but still no vacuum.

The only time a helo sinks while still in powered flight is in a case of vortex ring state (aka settling with power).

Having said that, it is important from a realism factor, that at least the very basics of helo aerodynamics be covered if we want a better realism experience.

An example of this would be the right yaw in a helo with blades spinning in an anti-clockwise direction with a required "left pedal input" to counter the torque effect on the helo or the effects of wind in game on a helo. Getting into and out of a tight LZ for example with a wind component is a lot harder than with no wind component. Men have died trying, literally! So a wind component at the very least would be my first prize from a wish-list perspective.

I'm fully aware that this is NOT a true flight sim so this must be taken into account.

In essence we cannot expect BI to build a fully fledged flight sim, so to expect the setting of fuel mixture for a game I think is taking it a bit too far. Besides all the aircraft in ARMA are jet engine aircraft and one does not set mixture in jet engine aircraft, only in normally aspirated (aka piston) engines.

Flight sim building and flying should be left for that fraternity but a certain degree of realism from an aerodynamic perspective would be nice.

Edited June 10, 2011 by Saint7

[Innomadic 10]

While your points 2 and 3 sense, point 1 here is actually wrong.

I'm not flaming you bro as I do not expect everyone to know about helos in detail so with all due respect let me explain in basic terms:

In fact the exact opposite happens in real life with a helo.

A helicopter does not create a vacuum and start to fall when in the hover in ground effect (H.I.G.E.), it actually creates a "ground cushion" which assists the helo to hover. With hover out of ground effect (H.O.G.E.) on the other hand, the hover does require more power in real life to hover but still no vacuum.

The only time a helo sinks while still in powered flight is in a case of vortex ring state (aka settling with power).

Having said that, it is important from a realism factor, that at least the very basics of helo aerodynamics be covered if we want a better realism experience.

An example of this would be the right yaw in a helo with blades spinning in an anti-clockwise direction with a required "left pedal input" to counter the torque effect on the helo or the effects of wind in game on a helo. Getting into and out of a tight LZ for example with a wind component is a lot harder than with no wind component. Men have died trying, literally! So a wind component at the very least would be my first prize from a wish-list perspective.

I'm fully aware that this is NOT a true flight sim so this must be taken into account.

In essence we cannot expect BI to build a fully fledged flight sim, so to expect the setting of fuel mixture for a game I think is taking it a bit too far. Besides all the aircraft in ARMA are jet engine aircraft and one does not set mixture in jet engine aircraft, only in normally aspirated (aka piston) engines.

Flight sim building and flying should be left for that fraternity but a certain degree of realism from an aerodynamic perspective would be nice.

Thats all we need really, something a tad more but nothing so much that you spend hours reading first before even turning on the engine ala DCS.