High Command AI

[instagoat 133]

This is probably a pretty grand thing, but I was wondering if there were people actually into this. I enjoy high command, in fact it´s one of my favourite things about this sim. However, apart from the controls not being good enough, another problem is the complete lack of a high command AI outside of warfare. And even the warfare AI can´t (apparently) do anything but send its Units out to piecemeal try and capture points.

One thing I am hoping for is working HC AI, Units communicating between each other, and maneuvering tactically against each other using their respective countries doctrine. Especially because this is a future setting, involving a highly digitized, synchronised battlefield, concepts like Landwarrior become important. I´d be feeling the game would miss something, if this weren´t realized.

I compiled an "interesting questions about the game" thread for take on helos, might do the same later for this game after E3, assembling questions from the community as they appear.

Anyway, your thoughts on this are very welcome. Especially if you´re a dev, hint hint wink wink nudge nudge...

Cheerio!

Insta

Edited May 30, 2011 by InstaGoat

[ArmAriffic 10]

Me want's this too, ArmA's HC would make an epic RTS

[metalcraze 290]

I really wish BIS improves HC.

It's a great feature that adds a lot of strategic depth to the game.

AI has to know how to use it.

[Tonmeister 14]

to add to this i think the unit icons appearing accross the bottom of the screen could be an interactive clickable interface as you would get in an RTS game.

[instagoat 133]

to add to this i think the unit icons appearing accross the bottom of the screen could be an interactive clickable interface as you would get in an RTS game.

This. Proper HC AI would also make coop more interesting, because it would allow the AI to operate in a coordinated fashion: right now, all enemy units operate independently without any cooperation at all. Which makes it (usually, unless you´re heavily outnumbered or the enemy is very concentrated) relatively easy to defeat them when the player has access to HC.

[Splintert 10]

This would be great. I wouldn't want to be the HC but I do want to follow his orders blindly, then laugh at him when he sends the army on a suicide mission.

[Goos 0]

Very, very good point and one I had forgotten all about.

I would also LOVE to see this in play. First thing I tried with high command was try to get an A.I. to command and it fell flat much to my dissapointment.

To set up 2 sides run by A.I. commanders and simply be part of the force on one side would make for some awesome battlefield scenarios that would not play out the same way twice.

Yes one could use warfare but then your stuck with all the presets of it and have to go through all the buying units, weapons and vehichles garbage. What this would give is 2 pre set forces made up of units, factions, vehichles and weapons set by the mission creator. Combine that with mission objectives for the player to follow and that is the experience I would like to see outside of the single player campaign. There is only so much the ambient combat manager can do.

[mrcash2009 0]

Well High Command is quite a large area in itself so heres a post I made in the wishlist section which was based on HC:

Full implementation of High command with much fuller control (just like COC/CEX for arma1)

Implemention of high command should not be just module based, it should be hardcoded into the control system for any mission. Anyone who has used CENTS HCS Addon in which you can select whoever and whatever from unit(s) from you team and up them to a Hi command slot instantly and back again as you require.

So in effect Hi command becomes a fixed addition to control system.

Also in addition to this High command should also feature ability to view selected team with a camera view (RTS style) if you have set this option. High command is so powerful if its integrated better, so to fully flesh it out with more hold/stack up/get in vehicle fluent GUI and integrated into the system without Modular "on" switch would be superb.

Also taking into account save game issues where groups assigned would lose the HC control, joining a game, recruited units etc all being able to "pick where dead leader left off or if I switch, join a group, AI gets recruited and I switch to it" fluently with the HC system.

Also niggles such as being able to place a way point and succession of way points down and set them as you wish while units are waiting, and then allow them to proceed as you want. Unlike now where as you place the first the team hurtle to that way point before you have had time to set modes. Or a right click to place will show setting menu before you click to place/proceed etc.

(I would prefer this to happen in Arma2/OA but if nothing else deff in Arma3)

I agree here that to have it fully loaded so you can realy go to town on RTS with camera views, fuller controls would be powerful stuff & again as the OFP mentioned the AI part to this too (although im sure your setting your waypoints correctly with modes / speed / formation etc right?) :)

Edited June 1, 2011 by mrcash2009

[ajsarge 10]

Or, they could implement a new group system, that's tiered specifically to who's grouped to who. If you take one unit and group it to another, the second is your team leader. Now, if you group that TL and another to one more, the TLs still have command over their units, but they in turn are told where to go by the new Squad Leader. This just tiers over time, with the old unit portraits in the bottom right being replaced with the respective icons for the unit type and size.

Now, waypoints would have to be revamped, and a few extra commands added so that we could have a streamlined HC interface mixed with our standard commands.

If I could photoshop, I would make a menu example, but I can't.

[mrcash2009 0]

BIS might have to take a leaf out of this addon makers book regards RTS:

MSQMp9ewUrY

This implemented for High command through A3 = BIS ...get on it.

(Slightly off topic, but you get the idea)

Edited June 2, 2011 by mrcash2009

[kylania 567]

Never used HC, not even in missions designed for it. I'm not playing an RTS. Same reason I hate Warfare or any other game mode that turns multiplayer teamplay game into a bunch of people catwrangling single player AI squads together instead of playing the game as a team.

[mrcash2009 0]

Never used HC, not even in missions designed for it. I'm not playing an RTS. Same reason I hate Warfare or any other game mode that turns multiplayer teamplay game into a bunch of people catwrangling single player AI squads together instead of playing the game as a team.

Gread addition to a HC based thread topic then :rolleyes: Simple, you dont go looking for servers playing what you hate and it wont go changing the sim in any other way than bring new elements and faces to it, its very powerful when used, clearly you dont use it, so I doubt it will be of interest.

The beauty as you know is Arma can be many things to many people and still hold its own for each, so I dont think anyone's asking for Arma to become an "RTS only fo SP players and sod MP" just an expansion on features in a certain area BIS already brought in since A2.

I think you need to let off steam in the MP threads where i bet you have plenty of good things to say :)

Edited June 2, 2011 by mrcash2009

[katipo66 94]

Agreed, i like HC, its a great addition to the game and most of the HC modifications ive used have really enhanced gameplay and would love to see this and other modules progress to their full potential.

And Mondkalb's latest offering looks awesome!

Edited June 2, 2011 by Katipo66

[Goos 0]

Never used HC, not even in missions designed for it. I'm not playing an RTS. Same reason I hate Warfare or any other game mode that turns multiplayer teamplay game into a bunch of people catwrangling single player AI squads together instead of playing the game as a team.

I couldn't give a stuff about using high command either but your missing a point. If A.I. could use high command effectively it could make for some very intersting dynamic wide scale battles all run by A.I. commanders that players can run around in the middle of.

[dysta 10]

With AI High-Commanding, the ARMA3 will becomes a real-time chessboard. Plain and fight at the same time for both player and AI so we can be REALLY busy to play. :)

[tsb247 0]

I too would love to see the High-Command system improved. That, and an improved warfare model could finally give us a simulation of not just a small battlefield, but an entire war!

I would love to see AI that can manage the following:

- Troop movements with respect to the player or respective opposing force.

- Usage of units with respect to their combat roles

- Supply management

- Supply chain defense

- Defensive planning/anticipation of enemy attacks

- Communicate through the chain of command

These are just a few of the things I have thought up. Yeah, I know it's wishful thinking, but these kinds of improvements would GREATLY improve not only warfare game modes, but also give us the ability to simulate conflicts on a larger scale than we have been able to thusfar.

[los18z 19]

I too am a huge HC fan (and I always use Cents' HC mod). At our place we use it often...even in Multiplayer and H2H. I dont know why some are confusing it with RTS. It wouldn't take very many tweaks to make the High Command into an actual platoon leader or company commander simulator. In particular (BTW I know this is probably pie in the sky).

An easy way to set up actual formations that come pre-set with high command? Like adding a whole platoon to a map in the editor. Or otherwise a clear and reliable way to make effective company organization.

Setting a platoon formation (eg column of squads that could be used for movement. then as you move from point A to B the whole platoon follows along in relative formation.

Being able to set it up so for instance a company commander gives an order to a platoon and the platoon can move it's squad with a tad of realistic behavior. So if I say 2 Platoon move to this hill and defend it moves to that area and takes up a tactical position (I'm thinking of how the Planned Assault mission designer thinks through this stuff to set up it's waypoints and actions)

More options from the HC right click in the map such as deploy crew served weapons, watch this or that sector etc. this is a key function of th platoon leader, he directs the emplacement of his crew served and best casualty creating weapons to his specifications.

At least it would be nice if what you do in this mod: http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=6930 would be part of base functionality.

Then we are closer to having an interesting platoon leader (or higher) FPS simulator.

Thanks.

Los

[metalcraze 290]

What is this Cents' HC mod?

[los18z 19]

In short say you have a squad of ten men. You select several of them and from comm menu you have the ability to split them off into a separate team, you can make as many teams as you want. then you can move them around via the normal High Command functionality. If you want to regroup them under your one normal squad command you select the groups and there's a menu option to group.

Comes in handy when as a squad leader you want everyone under your control for a movement, but at the objective you split them into fire teams and control them with the less clunky high command module. It is best of both worlds.

It's a script.

Los

[Tonci87 163]

Some very interesting ideas here in this thread.

Coop could also benefit from improved high command AI. Imagine that the enemy has something like an emulated HQ (High command activated for enemy AI) amd the enemy commander moves his troops in reaction to the actions of the human players. Maneuvering his squads into flanking positions, setting up ambushes, moving vehicels and heavy weapons to overwatch points and so on. You wouldn't need a large number of enemys to make missions difficult, two squads could be enough to get your squad into some real trouble if commanded well.

[instagoat 133]

Some very interesting ideas here in this thread.

Coop could also benefit from improved high command AI. Imagine that the enemy has something like an emulated HQ (High command activated for enemy AI) amd the enemy commander moves his troops in reaction to the actions of the human players. Maneuvering his squads into flanking positions, setting up ambushes, moving vehicels and heavy weapons to overwatch points and so on. You wouldn't need a large number of enemys to make missions difficult, two squads could be enough to get your squad into some real trouble if commanded well.

And somebody could infiltrate, and kill the enemy commander to destroy the enemy cohesion.

There´s really endless possibillities here, BIS. I hope you can see that, even though it´s probably difficult as heck to implement.

[metalcraze 290]

I doubt it's difficult.

Think about the implementation being the same as with AI squad leader which assigns soldiers to attack other soldiers

Except in HC it can be done with the commander assigning squads to attack squads.

Same stuff - different level.

[Tonci87 163]

Not really that easy i fear. The commander also has to tell his squads from where they should engage the enemy. He has to tell them if they should fire on sight or if they should wait for the enemy to come closer. He has to tell them if tjey should retreat or not.... You see, it ain't that simple. But it would be really great if implemented properly

[metalcraze 290]

The AI squad leader doesn't do that with his soldiers either.

But AI knows how to flank.

[wickedstigma 10]

Me want's this too, ArmA's HC would make an epic RTS

Ive been thinking the same thing for a long time! I was planning to make a RTS mod with A2 at least take the first steps towards making one and adding more commands and stuff through scripting.