Editor improvement suggestions.

[dmarkwick 261]

Just to be clear: I do see the difficulties in developing a nested-editor system. For one thing, weapon loadouts are defined in each unit's config. I don't know whether BIS are making changes to that, but if not then I can see that a nested-editor system will be an init-line generator. I still think it would be preferable to init-line text entry only :) as long as the init line field still exists.

[neokika 62]

Hi all,

My personal favourite:

I hope the problems with mission making will be improved.

1. What works in the editor preview may not work in MP on your own machine.

And more important:

2. What works in MP on your own machine Fails on a didicated server.

This last problem (2.) drives mission makers to mental problems.

And the list goes on.....

I would like to see that groups can cycle though more waypoints without additional scripting. Un less I am doing something wrong, I can not let AI cycle to more then 2 waypoints in the editor. Also THe cycle does only seems to work with the 'move' command. When I try 'guard' with a timer the AI does not seem to cycle anymore, but stays at the guard waypoint.

I have great ideas for missons, but I don't have the time to learn the scripting and it is hard to troll through hundred of threads looking for that one line you need to make it work.

The community could make a general list of the most used/requested commands for the game. Have this auto incorporated into the editor and easier to use.

Things like:

Helo Insertions

Ambushes

Place in building

Disabling AI, etc.

It would be easy enough to place something like disableAI "Move"; in the editor as it is by just clicking on the Unit, could have a thing that says disable AI and a drop down object that has different variations.

For Helo Insertions

Choose Vehicle, What units would you like to load in cargo. Where to start and where to finish. What altitude would you like to fly in. How long would you like to stay at zone. When would you like to get picked up etc...

Players being able to quickly make enjoyable and complex missions is also fun, I understand if it extremely technical but something as widely useful as changing the gear of a unit via menu is something that can be made easier while in no way making it any less complex, this whole idea of "we have to keep it difficult so it takes extra time to learn" just seems slightly elitist if I am to be honest :o But I do understand, keeping the actual depth of the editor is a must, and would still allow people to learn and master it :)

Make a option if you want the placed AI to stand/crouch/prone

*Mission Parameters Section with hotkey, allowing fast editing of Mission objectives, breifings and other information while in the editors interface.

*Quick Placeable FX, Smoke plumes, fire, other FX, treated as objects.

*Notifiers for Modules that are not synchronized

*Total entity count on Map number on TOP right hand corner

*Mission you made and play with a certain mod like an Robert Hammers Ammo box for example please dont allow the mission to become dependent on it, and If I do remove the ammo box remove the required mod from the mission currently even if its not there anymore the mod will still be in the textfile for the mission.

* To compliment the above suggestion, Add a Required mods Section to the editor (with hotkey) this will display the latest build of the game, the mods that are required to play the mission with other players,

*Spawn point system, Im dumb I couldnt figure out how to make spawns, placeable spawn points in editor, classified under tools.

*Placeable Checkpoint save locations (giving them depth, diameter, size)

*Easier to read altitude on map, maybe display that information in a small box, information would be from where your cursors location on the map.

*Preview window for placeable objects would be neat

I think it would be nice to command troops with the mouse button as well. i.e. click on AI's/groups icon or actual person, point to where to go or right click, and they move there. AI algo' then has them bunkering down for good conceal and cover. Choose AI's way points and movement path from main menu.

Be able to tell when what weapon to use, and when.

i would like to be able to copy & paste objects to original position, like "alt+toggle+ctrl+v" in adobe indesign.

this would allow to place for example a base from the mission to intro section to exactly the same coordinates and azimuth as the original and i dont need to try to place it there manualy.

I'd love to avoid the preview/restart dance when repeatedly previewing missions. Having them start from where you left off last time is a PITA.

For instance everyone's favorite --- Heli Insertion.

Select the option.

You place helo, units, it asks where you want to start and where you want to finish.

Basically, it simplies the language into just plugging in numbers or units. How many in cargo - 6. Alititue -200, etc...

Not all of us have the time to sit there for hours trolling forums to get 1 aspect to work :-)

Has you can see, more then 50% of this stuff already is in Arma 2 Editor, the other 50% are not good at all....

_neo_

Edited June 23, 2011 by neokika

[elmas 10]

I find them all good and valid suggestions, what's with this editor elitism... How many creative people are out there who dont have the time, to learn all there is to know ,to see their ideas come to "life" in the editor. I've said it before, the editor is needlessly time consuming.

Edited June 23, 2011 by Elmas

[nikiller 18]

hi,

- Differents new waypoints i.e a real DEFEND waypoint. I know there's allready BIS fnc taskDefend but something more elaborated would be nice. A bit like CBA defend function.

- More waypoints combos possible (like GUARD and SENTRY combo) simulating a kind of AI communication and tactics between the different groups.

- Easy to use 3D editor.

- Modules fully compatible on a dedicated server. (please do this one :))

Overall, I like the editor (maybe because I use it since 10 years :D) and I'm not for too much change.

I've said it before, the editor is needlessly time consuming.

So true! ;)

what time is it? Ho ok 9:00 PM nice I have time to edit.

4 hours later...

What time is it? Ho fuck! 3:00 AM damn I work tomorow!

cya.

Nikiller.

Edited June 23, 2011 by Nikiller

[wipman 1]

Hi, a huge huge improvement on/for/with the Editor will be:

- Commands Refference Guide with the DVD BOX (PDF for the Digital Download).

- 3D Editor.

- Real Time Editor maybe?, to watch how the mission will go/work/look.

- Don't need to exit from the Editor to fully edit the mission.

- Integrated Animations Viewer inside the editor.

- Better interface for add command lines like rearm units, more clean.

- Shorter & easyer weapons, ammo and units classnames.

- Many Integrated pre-made scripts.

- Clear pop-up Info windows to know what X do/is.

I think that some of that could make the editor easyer and much more user friendly. Let's C ya

[ryguy 10]

To summarize my concerns, I feel they risk making users stupider.

I'm fine with being stupider as long as it's just with the editor... have you ever thought that I actually dont want to devote very much time at all learning code for a video-game mission editor? Is that crazy? I just want to make cool missions for myself and friends.

[arigram 0]

The editor should be made more accessible and people have made some really valid suggestions such as regarding the weapon loadout.

The whole fear of "dumbing down" the editor and making it a simplistic toy for the unwashed masses is simply absurd. It reminds me of the CLI vs GUI flamewars that appear every now and then in the Linux world when Ubuntu comes up with a new tool or redesign to make the computer more accessible to non-programmers.

I am a photographer. I made the choice of using film for much of my photography. I use large cameras with very limited frames on every roll of film, I develop by myself, I print the photographs with an enlarger on photo paper in a dark, dark room. I mix smelly chemicals, I memorize numbers, I do silly gestures to control the printing, I spend much of my time in the dark.

But I don't ask casual snapshooters or professionals to follow my example.

I let them use whatever makes more sense for them.

It would be absurd to belittle people because they follow the common, convenient and productive way based on some elitist ideology of judging work on how difficult it is.

We're talking about the mission editor of a game.

Not a general computer programming language.

You don't sacrifice anything by improving the GUI and the accessibility.

The easier it is to make a mission the better the editor is.

It will be more productive, it will be less time consuming, it will be less effort to create something complex and it will bring more talent.

The less energy and time that one needs to spend to make simple things work, the more energy and time can be devoted to more complex things and more content.

BI HAS been taking steps in making the editor more powerful but also more accessible. The 3D Editor will be a vast improvement in accessibility.

I want to see a more accessible editor.

I don't have time to devote in learning and applying programming skills so I can play a game.

I do have some ideas on missions, I have access to people with more military experience and have some understanding of "directing", so I want to put this all together with the least amount of effort and time.

Edited June 26, 2011 by arigram

[Big Dawg KS 6]

I'm fine with being stupider as long as it's just with the editor... have you ever thought that I actually dont want to devote very much time at all learning code for a video-game mission editor? Is that crazy? I just want to make cool missions for myself and friends.

I don't think you people get what I'm saying. It's not just making you stupider, it's making the missions stupider.

In otherwords, it will limit the creativity of people. We'll end up with missions that are all exactly the same (although it's probably already the case with MP in ArmA 2), and people won't take the time to learn how to do more advanced & creative things. IMO the editor is at a good place right now; it's powerful enough to make some perfectly playable missions without any scripting knowledge, and there is a draw to learn scripting to create more advanced scenarios.

Now I understand the desire to simplify things for the sake of speed/convenience, which I do agree is good, but when people just don't want to learn the advanced stuff there's no excuse.

[gossamersolid 155]

Hi, a huge huge improvement on/for/with the Editor will be:

- Commands Refference Guide with the DVD BOX (PDF for the Digital Download).

- 3D Editor.

- Shorter & easier weapons, ammo and units classnames.

- Many Integrated pre-made scripts.

1. Really? Just go to community.bistudio.com...

2. Already technically in there

3. I don't really think the classnames can be shortened, they are already short enough and contain what they need to contain

USMC_Rifleman <--- M14A4 USMC Rifleman

4. There's tons of pre-made scripts with the functions module.

[arigram 0]

I don't think you people get what I'm saying. It's not just making you stupider, it's making the missions stupider.

Actually, I think the opposite is true.

Excuse me if I go back to camera analogies, but even though now almost everyone has an access to an one-click picture taking device of infinite capacity and simple post-processing workflows, the person using the tool is still the one who defines the quality of the end result, not the tool it is self.

Even though most of my cameras are manually operated, I understand the need and use cameras with automatic functions in the situations that need them (which are not many, mind you).

Sure, the average person will snap a stupid snap and make it even more grotesque with their pirated copy of Photoshop and call it art, but the real photography still survives.

Take software for example. Take image processing, 3D modeling, non linear video editing.

They have grown immensely in power and features since I started using them twenty + years ago. But not only did they add features, they simplified or made automatic operations that needed an immense amount of work before, such as for example in 3D modeling and animation, adding physics, inverse kinematics, fluids, particles, hair, etc.

Nowadays its much faster and easier to create a human model that looks and behaves realistically and thus you are able to more to even more advanced projects.

Sure, someone lacking the skills, talent and ideas to take it far will just mess with the filters, operations and wizards that are right in front of them and don't go further, but that's true no matter how advanced the software is.

If more advanced mission features become more accessible then more people will be making more complex missions, not the other way around.

Talented people will always create something better, why not assist them?

A skill in programming or the programmer's mind set are not the only thing that sets people apart.

I am no programmer nor able or want to think like one, but that doesn't mean I am not capable of creating something of value if the tools were more accessible for people like me.

[Tonci87 163]

^This, absolutely!

[ionezation 10]

I m agree with TOnci87 .. just 5mags and 20 bullets :S i run out soon and when i dont know how to call the support i felt ___ :) ... bohemia can go up high in skies if they consider minor things instead of making HI FI grafix.

[ryguy 10]

Actually, I think the opposite is true.

Excuse me if I go back to camera analogies, but even though now almost everyone has an access to an one-click picture taking device of infinite capacity and simple post-processing workflows, the person using the tool is still the one who defines the quality of the end result, not the tool it is self.

Even though most of my cameras are manually operated, I understand the need and use cameras with automatic functions in the situations that need them (which are not many, mind you).

Sure, the average person will snap a stupid snap and make it even more grotesque with their pirated copy of Photoshop and call it art, but the real photography still survives.

Take software for example. Take image processing, 3D modeling, non linear video editing.

They have grown immensely in power and features since I started using them twenty + years ago. But not only did they add features, they simplified or made automatic operations that needed an immense amount of work before, such as for example in 3D modeling and animation, adding physics, inverse kinematics, fluids, particles, hair, etc.

Nowadays its much faster and easier to create a human model that looks and behaves realistically and thus you are able to more to even more advanced projects.

Sure, someone lacking the skills, talent and ideas to take it far will just mess with the filters, operations and wizards that are right in front of them and don't go further, but that's true no matter how advanced the software is.

If more advanced mission features become more accessible then more people will be making more complex missions, not the other way around.

Talented people will always create something better, why not assist them?

A skill in programming or the programmer's mind set are not the only thing that sets people apart.

I am no programmer nor able or want to think like one, but that doesn't mean I am not capable of creating something of value if the tools were more accessible for people like me.

[wizbomb 10]

i don't have any big suggestions but i would like to see a pop out menu for customizing a player or NPC's weapons.....like do you want a ACOG scope, red-dot, grenade launcher, silencer or grip......something like that or even if it was just to select their weapon because that was a pain for me in arma 2

[Gunter Severloh 4062]

This has been said in the suggestions section for Arma2OA, and I would liek to see it in Arma3 if it were possible:

The ability to make multiple units playable by highlighting the units you want playable then either pressing a button, on the menu,

or something, maybe a right click with drop down menu would work, but being able to make mulitple units playable would

cut down the time it takes to test, and build missions.

Its real annoying or lets say rather tedious to have to edit each unit to make them playable, sometimes you have to edit a unit

for certain things but if you are just putting squads down, I would like to be able to highlight the squad and make able the option

to bring that menu in the units dialogue list where you make playable to make playable without having to edit the unit.

I think many can agree this would be a real time saver as well as more econmical in terms of mission building.

[Ish 11]

Just.. Simpler.. I can't script to save my life, and thus end up scrapping every project i start.

[Uziyahu--IDF 0]

One thing I would like to see is a Respawn drop-down menu, rather than having to specify that in the description.ext

It would be nice if you could do that on a per-unit basis, too, in the Unit window. (Respawn after X damage =OR= X # of seconds after completely destroyed.)

Wayyyy too much has to be done outside of the Editor. Isn't the purpose of an editor to edit?

[AstroMan 10]

Ish, same here, i always have great ideas and start making stuff, but my lack of scripting skills and having to search the net for ages puts me off.

[Big Dawg KS 6]

One thing I would like to see is a Respawn drop-down menu, rather than having to specify that in the description.ext

It would be nice if you could do that on a per-unit basis, too, in the Unit window. (Respawn after X damage =OR= X # of seconds after completely destroyed.)

Wayyyy too much has to be done outside of the Editor. Isn't the purpose of an editor to edit?

Description.ext editing is not very frequent, so IMO it's not something that needs a GUI. As for scripting, well BIS could implement a tool for script editing in the editor but I feel that using an external notepad-esque program would still be much better (definately faster considering how the editor UI can have a noticible lag). I mean it really takes very little time to switch between ArmA and other windows, and since you can reload, recompile & rerun scripts with a mission running there's very little wasted time left to save.

Don't forget the only real purpose for the current editor is to edit (and preview) the SQM file format (your basic mission file). Script and Ext files are just extensions-technically script files aren't even necessary; if you really wanted do you could just write the script code into any code fields in the editor and spawn/call them, it's just easier to handle when you put them in external files.

Ish, AstroMan: Seems that you two dedication and are just lazy. C'mon, if you want to make something good you have to put effort into it. Editing help for ArmA 2 is also one of the easiest things to find on the entire internet (right after porn). If you can't find help there's really no excuse. And once you do learn it, you'll be glad you did.

Edited June 27, 2011 by Big Dawg KS

[dmarkwick 261]

Description.ext editing is not very frequent, so IMO it's not something that needs a GUI. As for scripting, well BIS could implement a tool for script editing in the editor but I feel that using an external notepad-esque program would still be much better (definately faster considering how the editor UI can have a noticible lag). I mean it really takes very little time to switch between ArmA and other windows, and since you can reload, recompile & rerun scripts with a mission running there's very little wasted time left to save.

I agree that the editor-notepad separation is a good thing, I have the editor on one monitor and Notepad++ on the other, both apps windowed so I can easily just mouse from one to the other. It's a very nice development setup. I can also agree that having the script editing functionality in the editor might unnecessarily clutter up that app.

But, on balance I believe it should still be there, just for the people who might want to try scripting and don't really wish to do the windowed/development/external browser reference malarky. Sure it's not too difficult, but for some people it's too much engineering, and an in-editor scripting tool would suffice them.

I say let's have the possibility of both :) many game editors do have inbuilt scripting functionality and some of them work pretty well. I agree that currently the editor is a purely SQM file tool, but I think that needs to be updated. I think we have both agreed at some point that "save as..." should save more than just the SQM file, so the seed for extending the editor's functionality is already there.

[Big Dawg KS 6]

I say let's have the possibility of both :) many game editors do have inbuilt scripting functionality and some of them work pretty well. I agree that currently the editor is a purely SQM file tool, but I think that needs to be updated. I think we have both agreed at some point that "save as..." should save more than just the SQM file, so the seed for extending the editor's functionality is already there.

Well the thing is that my vision of an improved/extended editor would be a realtime 3D editor (that still works on SQM/native mission files and not just scripted) with accompanying full-blown IDE for scripting (or maybe just an eclipse plugin) and maybe even extensible for users. But that's just a dream and I realize how unlikely that is to happen. ;)

Also don't forget BIS is just as big a user of the editor as us, so they must have a workflow that works for them (and their own ideas of how to improve it).

[CarlGustaffa 4]

I'm expecting the new waypoint system from TKOH to show up in Arma3, possibly with tooltip explaining the parameters for the selected "plugin waypoint".

[Rak 0]

I've just been getting deeper into the editing and there's lots of points that make me scratch my head, thinking "This shouldn't be that hard . . . " some random points that I remember now;

• Make an in-editor animation browser. Finding the animation you want and then MAKING the soldiers etc do that animation is such a pain.
  
• Make an in-editor gear browser. Ability to take a look at ammuniton boxes through the Gear menu just like in-game one and being able to decorate soldiers in seconds.
  Now we have to find the command to add weapons, ammo; then find the right class names, spam them a few times, control that you didn't make any spelling mistakes in your 5 line code etc . . . this shouldn't be this hard.
  
• Implement an in-game editor working in conjunction with the normal editor, so that unit placement is not such a time consuming process. Just going through setPos commands is a perfect recipe for madness atm.
  
• Make an in-editor briefing editor. I make quite complicated missions but have never bothered to create a "proper" briefing because it's so much work for such a low-priority thing.
  
• Create a help tool in editor so that we can access scripting commands and examples easier, rather than googling trying to find the right command.
  
• Hire Mr.Murray so that we will have a complete editor guide. Bohemia wiki is incomplete and Mr. Murray can't keep up with your games in his free time.
  
• Easier custom sounds through editor.
  

Basically stop making people leave the editor and put everything an novice/advanced modder will need into the game. I could make 3 missions in the time currently it takes to make 1 mission, if these were implemented.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Make an in-editor briefing editor. I make quite complicated missions but have never bothered to create a "proper" briefing because it's so much work for such a low-priority thing.

This sounds like laziness talking, as there are good templates available, or copy setup and ideas from missions who had briefings you liked. Good quality brief is a good indication if mission is gonna be a keeper or not.

Create a help tool in editor so that we can access scripting commands and examples easier, rather than googling trying to find the right command.

F1 to get help on specific commands is good enough I think. Browse to see all commands are better done in a good web browser, as often you want to see the multiple examples, custom updated information, and talk pages giving you the warnings you need. I've never used google, the biki pages are pretty good.

Easier custom sounds through editor.

Not generalistic enough. I would like to see a more generalized description.ext editor within the editor, where #includes can be expanded or contracted on need, and where many processes are automated using presets. Browse through your files to create classes that references external sound files or addon sound files. There is a bunch of nice samples within the game that cannot (to my knowledge) be accessed in their current location, so using them makes the mission file bigger (not desired). If I say create cfgSFX sound, the header is automatically created if not already there, and I can start setting the options suitable for that class of sound, with readable information about limitations and problems where applicable.

Not related to editor, but sound in general:

Fix the cfgSFX problem where the sound disappear from the trigger if you are killed while the trigger is playing and/or respawn in an area where such a trigger is playing. It happens with scripted triggers using setSoundEffect. It is such a brilliant way to place sound effects over the whole island automatically, and also the only (known) way to accomplish dynamic volume control (fake, moving the trigger upwards to fade the sound) on a sound. But the respawn problem kinda kills all its applications. The trigger is there, but doesn't play the sound. Move to a nearby trigger, and this one will work. Driving me nuts it is :p

[dmarkwick 261]

This sounds like laziness talking, as there are good templates available, or copy setup and ideas from missions who had briefings you liked. Good quality brief is a good indication if mission is gonna be a keeper or not.

I have to say I agree somewhat with the notion of an in-editor briefing tool, even if that tool only loads up a template in another app (notepad say). "Good templates available" and "ideas from missions who had briefings you liked" implies that the user needs to search this stuff out and use other tools not available from BIS even. Everything you need to create a mission, should be available in the mission editor IMO.

Even if that tool is nothing more than a create template document in the mission folder, and open it in notepad. In-editor text tool would be better, obviously.