Cover system for Arma3?

[metalcraze 290]

MadDogX, please don't feed the troll. Metalcraze has proved himself as generally speaking narrow-viewed person in each of his 933 (and i suppose there is gonna be 934rd coming right after mine) posts.

Yes because I disagree with someone I'm suddenly a "narrow-minded troll"

Cover system is designed to speed up the pace of the game and get rid of ridiculous Stand/Crouch behaviour or leaning around the corner repeatedly pressing left or right button.

Isn't that what cover system is all about? You get glued to the box (and can't move anywhere - so much for "fast paced"), you crouch, you press fire - you stand up and fire, you crouch again. Repeat. And that's what it is - crouch -stand up -crouch stand up.

It isn't realistic, it isn't "immersive", it doesn't work in first person, it requires linear levels with artificially preplaced cover - but you want it in ArmA because?..

ArmA2 already has a cover system for AI. It isn't ideal, but it makes sense and it works. Much better than the ridiculousness of Gears of War/Mass Effect

Edited May 24, 2011 by metalcraze

[Leon86 13]

I would like a crysis2/red orchestra system for leaning over a wall but for corner leaning the exposure should be just as limited, in ro they might as well run around the corner.

Also maybe add a button to incrementally peek around/over whithout the weapon so you can see without exposing yourself more than needed.

I would hate a button to "lock to wall", or automatically put your back to the wall, that's for third person shooters.

[r3volution 0]

@ Make Love Not War : Good points and that thread does have some interesting potential, I very much hope BI are reading it. I acknowledge that individual soldiers taking cover in an unco-ordinated way is just going to prolong how long they last, but it does emulate that first response in a firefight which is to go to ground.

I hope that BI will really do a top down reformation of the AI so that they act in a more sophisticated way but my experience with what is possible and what seems to be implemented by BI points towards this being unlikely. I see incremental improvements through the series but nothing that goes towards a groundbreaking rewrite of the tactical group/individual ai. SO to be the ruthless pragmatist, I'd like to think that the cover system would at least mean that the AI would be being stupid in cover rather than being stupid out in the open.

And thanks to metalcraze for without a smidge of irony exactly portraying the knee-jerk console/pc strawman bollocks that comes along with discussions of a cover system.

[NeMeSiS 11]

A system like in Call of Juarez would be pretty nice. But any other system i have played with so far: No, that is fucking retarded.

[CameronMcDonald 146]

If someone can actually describe a decent cover system that doesn't involve people adhering to surfaces, predictable AI popup targets and FUCKING buttsliding, my cynical meter may go down a level.

[maddogx 13]

If someone can actually describe a decent cover system that doesn't involve people adhering to surfaces, predictable AI popup targets and FUCKING buttsliding, my cynical meter may go down a level.

As someone described on page #2, Raven Shields "fluid posture" would be a good start. :)

[lsp 10]

I gotta say I agree with metalcraze I dont know why your all saying hes narrow minded lol.I wish they would add more leans though so to speak to be able to shoot over a low wall without standing up or peak over one. Sounds like alot of you want arma on xbox turned into graw or gears.

[CameronMcDonald 146]

As someone described on page #2, Raven Shields "fluid posture" would be a good start. :)

Heh, forgot about that. Shame on me. Get it to work with the AI and I'm sold.

And now, some emoticons.

[dissaifer 10]

I always liked rainbow six vegas 2's cover system, you can use it if you want or not. And they even patched it later so in third person you couldn't peek behind the wall (see down the alley).

off topic... it would be cool if A3 had repelling... pipe dream.

[11aTony 0]

I always liked Vegas cover system the best of games I tried on PC that have it. But I dont think player needs a cover system. As mentioned, some kind of "Fluid Posture" would be much better. Most of usable cover in arma 2 offers good cover horizontaly but verticaly, it is often useless. So adjusting your hight between "crouch" and "stand up" would be the best.

However, I feel like AI cover system should be improved in a way that AI automaticly looks the "right" position depending on where AI came from. Right now you send him to a corner of a small building at his 3 o'clock that provides cover for left side of his body. He goes to cover and starts looking into a wall. In case like this one, AI should move just 10-20cm to his right and provide cover.

So if anything can be done to AI so they recognize and utilize cover better, that would be great. It would save valuable seconds in heat of battle that you dont have.

I like commanding AI so it would mean a lot and could bring joy to some that dont like commanding them right now.

Edited May 24, 2011 by 11aTony

[metalcraze 290]

As someone described on page #2, Raven Shields "fluid posture" would be a good start. :)

ArmA2 actually does have this when it comes to leaning. But it's only available for TrackIR owners (who are humans obviously)

However this thing I can relate to. CTRL key is not used in ArmA2 too

But the problem is of course animations. In RS you are very much a bodyless floating camera.

Edited May 24, 2011 by metalcraze

[PuFu 4591]

no, it doesn't have any fluid posture, trackIR or not. All you can sort of duck the head, but that is available via freelook just as well.

[metalcraze 290]

Yeah sorry I forgot to add "leaning" at first. Fixed that.

Leaning with TrackIR sorta works like in RS

But hey if BIS will allow all of us to at least have leaning like in Raven Shield where instead of exposing a whole chunk of your body you control the amount of leaning with your mouse - it will be a nice start.

[PuFu 4591]

Yeah sorry I forgot to add "leaning" at first. Fixed that.

Leaning with TrackIR sorta works like in RS

But hey if BIS will allow all of us to at least have leaning like in Raven Shield where instead of exposing a whole chunk of your body you control the amount of leaning with your mouse - it will be a nice start.

yeah the leaning via track IR is cool, but the real issue for me is the vertical stances, especially the in betweens. I would much rather have the same lean and fluid stances for the vertical position (especially when static, so i can control the amount of height i have, allowing me to peep over obstacles)

[maddogx 13]

That would also give TrackIRs vertical axis a point in Arma2. :)

(Though it should also be assignable to a key+mouse movement combo.)

[Innomadic 10]

However this thing I can relate to. CTRL key is not used in ArmA2 too

It is however the primary, most convenient and widely used TS3 mic activation button, so i'd like to have that free.

[ZacharyHawk 10]

Hmm! cover system will make ArmA 3 more realistic !

[Avgeris 64]

It's easy to find cover I don't understand why making a post like this...

[maddogx 13]

It's easy to find cover I don't understand why making a post like this...

The topic is really more about improving movement precision and partly about avatar interaction with the environment. Of course anyone can stand/lie behind a solid object and stop bullets from hitting them, but the real issue is being unable to easily peek around or over the object without exposing a large part of your body, like you could in real life. Popping out from cover quickly in order to fire off a few (less accurate) shots is also difficult, and in some situations not possible at all.

[liquidpinky 11]

Proper cover system would be decent, being an MGS fan I would obviously enjoy it.

Ideally need the ability to peek over walls etc or possible corner peeking, which can be done currently with lean anyway.

The ability to pull yourself up a head height wall to peek over would be handy as well, especially on the no third person servers.

Just asking for more options to help me keep my avatar alive really.

[2nd ranger 282]

Heh, forgot about that. Shame on me. Get [fluid posture] to work with the AI and I'm sold.

While it would be awesome and immersive to see AI using fluid posture, i.e. hiding behind a wall and raising/lowering themselves just enough to take a shot and not get hit, I don't think it's very likely we'll see it anytime soon, at least not in this series. If the AI has trouble deciding what direction to look when you order them into cover, I doubt they'd be able to judge how much they should raise their head over an object.

The AI are actually decent now at moving to cover. The main problems are that they sometimes can't get close enough to the object and that they go prone too much. If it was even feasible for a cover system to be implemented, the AI would almost certainly have to use the 'stick to wall and pop up' approach. If you observe the AI in Arma 2 right now, sometimes it seems like they already kind of get 'snapped' to the object when they get near it. As if they're being attachTo'd. This is a good start, because obviously the engine can detect when they are near the cover. All they would need is an appropriate set of animations when they are 'in' the cover.

[Kirq 0]

Voted Yes, but it has to be something similar to Red Orchestra 2 fpp cover system.

[OB1 10]

if i am in real world i can peek up, down and arround a corner without exposing my self and still have the freedom to move where i want when i want and in ArmA2 the 3th person view does just that, although maybe it would be a little more realistic if the 3th person can't roll out that far like you can look over a building and way out of the second corner sometimes, it should be just so that you can peek arround the first corner and over low ridges or lower walls nothing more but yeah everything can be tweeked or have some improvement, i meen everyone has hes or her opinion on sertain points.

kind regards

Well the fact of the matter is... In real life I cannot view myself from outside my body. So I think first person is far more realistic even with the compromise of not being able to know exactly where my body is and if it is visible or not. 3rd person is always exploited in the game.. 99% of you fly arma aircraft in 3rd person don't you ? and allot of you use 3rd person to view over a tall wall or around a corner or over a crest of a hill without being exposed to any danger... That is unrealistic...

Aha.... so you're saying you prefer reduced realism ;) :D

Derka ? having a computer to manage my cover in my opinion is unrealistic...

Cover is when you place an object between yourself and the enemy... you can do that just fine now...

a cover system reminds me too much of an arcade game.. sorry I'm going to be stubborn about this and I will never agree to a cover system..

[Binkowski 25]

oh hell no. cover systems are cool in games like la noire, and red dead redemption. but not armed assault.

[moricky 210]

As a matter of fact, there already is cover system in Arma series. You may notice that vast majority of obstacles, be it walls, fences, rocks etc., are specificaly designed in a way that thay provide cover for at least one of the soldier stances.

What's more, there's difference between cover and concealment. Arma series provides both and sticky cover system would lead to confusion (can you already hear people complaining about being shot through cover which was not cover at all? :)).

When you look at games with 'cover system', they're usually more corridor based shooters where type of obstacle and enemy's position are clearly defined and there's little or no risk of ambush from behind. If your ever were in cover in one of these games and enemy got behind you, you know how clumsy and slow reacting usually is.