Laser Show, the Mk20, Extensive recoil

[Angry Priest 10]

So I went for a walk in rural Takistan earlier today and ended up at one of these 'laser show' scenario mission things. It sounded fun. However, when combat started, something rather disappointing occurred.

I knelt into a crouched position and shot at a fellow with an AK wearing a turban, from about 50->75 meters away. Unfortunately I missed, as aiming at him was somewhat difficult. However, then I found myself pointing my gun at the roof of the building he was in front of. A 2 story building, at that. Needless to say, by the time I had corrected my aim, the chap with the AK was long since gone. To my displeasure, this happened several more times, with many a turban escaping because of it. I tried placing my Mk 20 on full auto, which ended with predictable results, firing rounds off into the night sky.

But then, when rounding a corner with my Ai buddies, I stumbled across another Ak wielding chap hiding behind a wall. With my gun on full auto, while walking forward, surprised, I unloaded half a clip into him. I hit him with 5 rounds and the rest tore up the wall behind him. Later we boarded a chopper, but apparently Pvt. Distracted had gotten himself stuck on a fence so we had to wait a while before leaving. Naturally I got bored and decided to walk home instead, and post this here.

Question: What's up with the ridiculous recoil on the Mk 20? It even had a fore-grip. Furthermore, why was my delta force soldier left aiming his gun up into the air instead of at (or even near) the man I originally shot at?

Firstly, how did my delta force soldier manage to get through years of training and experience without ever learning how to absorb a weapons recoil when firing? From the recoil I experienced it was as if he was holding it with one hand. If a soldier can't put more than a single round on a target, how the hell is he supposed to provide any sort of cover to his squad mates?

Secondly, I guess, having never fired a firearm myself, I can't judge. Perhaps it is nearly impossible to fire a Mk 20 without completely losing your aim, after all, it is using a heavier round than other rifles.

If so, why the hell did they arm us with it? What's the point in having an insanely powerful, automatic weapon, if you can't fire more than one shot without having to start from scratch? You may as well arm us with Mausers. I'd honestly be happy with a .22 if it meant I could actually shoot something.

and a final side question:

If my recoil is insanely huge while I'm crouched, still, holding my breath and with my weapon aimed, why is it completely absorbed to the point of not existing when I'm standing up, walking and not even looking down the sights? Near the end of the mission I found it more reliable to side step back and forth when firing at enemies.

And one last technical question: I seem to get some sort of lag when aiming at things, there is a slight delay between when I move my mouse and when my actual weapon moves. As you can imagine, this can make it impossible to aim at someone in one smooth movement, and requires constant adjustment. It's like trying to aim someone else's gun at something by holding onto their elbows, or as if I'm shouting down a radio to my soldier, telling him to move his gun slightly to the left, or slightly to the right.

Save me BIS forums, for I paid dear euros for the right to walk in Takistan and right now, Everon calls to me

[MrMichael 10]

What is a Mk20?

If you're talking about the Mk17 (SCAR H), then yes, I kind of find the recoil to be a bit excessive on it, so I tend to stick with 5.56 weapons

[maturin 12]

I don't like the recoil system either. They should replace with a system where muzzle climb is corrected automatically, but the the auto-correction deviates from the original point of aim in a randomized pattern, in all directions. That's what you see with people firing 7.62x51mm weapons on youtube. The barrel doesn't actually climb into the air with each shot, they just end up waggled the end all over the place and spraying in a cone.

But I don't know what you're talking about. Crouching should have less recoil than standing. If you're crouching and moving, your aim waggles like crazy. Shooting while walking can make recoil behave differently.

[ajsarge 10]

It was a point brought up when they patched it in. People seemed to give up on it eventually. But, the system currently incorporated in A2/OA is not at all realistic. If I'm firing a full-auto LMG in real life, I'm not going to be following the barrel of the weapon as it tracks skyward. I'm going to keep my view on-target, and naturally bring the muzzle back down to at least a somewhat nominal direction to what I was originally shooting at. It's probably the worst "fix" that BIS has included. IMO.

[Angry Priest 10]

What is a Mk20?

If you're talking about the Mk17 (SCAR H), then yes, I kind of find the recoil to be a bit excessive on it, so I tend to stick with 5.56 weapons

That's the one, not sure how I managed to get that wrong <.>

I don't like the recoil system either. They should replace with a system where muzzle climb is corrected automatically, but the the auto-correction deviates from the original point of aim in a randomized pattern, in all directions. That's what you see with people firing 7.62x51mm weapons on youtube. The barrel doesn't actually climb into the air with each shot, they just end up waggled the end all over the place and spraying in a cone.

But I don't know what you're talking about. Crouching should have less recoil than standing. If you're crouching and moving, your aim waggles like crazy. Shooting while walking can make recoil behave differently.

If your walking, your weapon waggles around randomly, but the muzzle doesn't climb into the air. As the 'waggle' pattern is exactly the same every time it is predictable to a degree. So because you don't have your muzzle leaping into the air randomly, you can shoot much more consistently. The same applies to all the weapons, even the SAW and other LMGs. Effectively, if you are moving, you can fire an entire belt of ammo standing up and without any recoil. At short ranges, say, in an urban environment, you will almost always hit what you aim at. Sure, because your walking your aim is moving around randomly, but when your firing that many bullets it doesn't matter.

If i'm not mistaken that kind of messing around would knock you off your feet in real life. They must be hard enough to balance and control when stationary, not to mind when your walking.

It seems, as far as ARMA is concerned, shooting while walking doesn't incur any recoil at all.

[Steakslim 1]

There's no extensive recoil. It's almost negligible between 7.62 and 5.56 weapons in vanilla, (keyword there, "Vanilla").

[Archosaurusrev 12]

Well, first of all, the recoil in Vanilla is unrealistic.

Second, the SCAR-H is a gun to be fired in bursts, you fool!

Never go full auto with one except at VERY close quarters.

[maturin 12]

Well, first of all, the recoil in Vanilla is unrealistic.

Second, the SCAR-H is a gun to be fired in bursts, you fool!

Never go full auto with one except at VERY close quarters.

Bursts are the same as automatic when the second round is automatically lobbed into the air like an artillery shell. And AI with a PKM or M240 essentially have single-shot rifles when only the first round hits anything but stratosphere.

Then again, I play with ACE. Their recoil changes make gunplay completely impossible with ACE 1.3 for Arma 2. It's like every gun is an elephant rifle.

[Archosaurusrev 12]

Bursts are the same as automatic when the second round is automatically lobbed into the air like an artillery shell. And AI with a PKM or M240 essentially have single-shot rifles when only the first round hits anything but stratosphere.

Then again, I play with ACE. Their recoil changes make gunplay completely impossible with ACE 1.3 for Arma 2. It's like every gun is an elephant rifle.

I use ACE too, also, wtf man, 1.3? Wait, A2 or CO?

Get SixUpdater and Update, please. ;)

Anyways, pull down the mouse, it helps me a lot with the MK17.

[maturin 12]

I use ACE too, also, wtf man, 1.3? Wait, A2 or CO?

Get SixUpdater and Update, please. ;)

I have ACE 1.10.

But if you want to play Arma 2 (which people still do), then the ACE 1.3 for A2 version couples with the recoil changes to make AKs kick like handheld M2s.

[Archosaurusrev 12]

I have ACE 1.10.

But if you want to play Arma 2 (which people still do), then the ACE 1.3 for A2 version couples with the recoil changes to make AKs kick like handheld M2s.

Ok then.

I have no experience on pre 1.8 ACE versions so I can't argue.

[Warstick 10]

I too found the patched recoil system to be a bit excessive at first, the only way that I managed to come to terms with it, so as to get a playable firefight, was to not use the breath hold/zoom function, I dont know why but doing so has become second nature over the course of time I've been playing ARMA so it was a difficult habit to break, it does however offer at least a modicomb of improved accuracy, particularly with the larger round rifles.

I also find that I'm pretty much using aimpoints almost all of the time and have become quite handy over mid/long ranges using this method even if I do say so myself.

[Lauxman 10]

Having fired the civilian version of the SCAR, I can tell you that Arma got it completely wrong. The thing is a beautiful weapon, and I understand why special operations soldiers enjoy using it so much. There is literally zero recoil on it. You barely have to adjust your sight picture once you've fired your first round, if at all. And that is from a standing position.

My buddies' girlfriend, who is a rather skinny girl and probably doesn't weigh more than 110 pounds, with very little experience using firearms, was lighting up oranges at 50-100 meters, in rapid succession.

[Steakslim 1]

Scar 16 or Scar 17? The discussion of this thread is referring to the latter. And I still don't see how people think it's too much in vanilla, not such much in comparison to it's real life counterpart, but how some make it sound like it's completely unusable. I simply do not get where the exaggeration comes from.

Edited May 25, 2011 by Steakslim

[liquidpinky 11]

Scar 16 or Scar 17? The discussion of this thread is referring to the latter. And I still don't see how people think it's too much in vanilla, not such much in comparison to it's real life counterpart, but how some make it sound like it's completely unusable. I simply do not get where the exaggeration comes from.

I agree, I don't even get why any recoil is a problem as even the silenced Mk17's are pretty much a one hit kill.

You should really only ever use them on auto for building clearing.

The Mk17s are excellent weapons, certainly in OA anyway.