Steamworks, add it in or not?

[tonygrunt 10]

Voted no.

With around 850 installed games on my Steam library, these are the things I don't like about Steam:

-Took me 3 times today to start the client. First the "Could not connect to steam network", second time steam client stays idle and had to be killed in task manager.

-Patches are huge. 1 changed byte in one gigabyte game file means you have to redownload the file. Usual game updates for Arma are around 7GB, Witcher 2 update 15GB.

-No easy way to disable/enable/check status of automatic updates.

-Failed game downloads and no easy way to recheck all games except one by one.

-When starting steam and many game updates have happened, the gui may take a huge amount of time (15 mins+) to appear and then even respond, til some updates are finished.

-Client many times stops to respond and you have to wait.

I believe that some of the problems wouldn't happen if only some games were installed, instead of all.

[NielsS 10]

I'm pretty certain those users that voted "No" have an Apple device, but you don't hear them complaining that they have to use ITunes to get their music...legally and without using 3rd party apps.

I get my music on CD's.......legally and without using 3rd party apps. You don't hear me complaining about it. Why? Because i don't have to install a fucking client requiring me to be online just to play the music i BOUGHT, so tell me why i should do that with my games? :mad:

Oh...and i have about 500 games on CD and DVD and never lost any of them and all are still in good condition. I know it's a nice feature that Steam backup's your games but that does not mean that we are all a bunch of douches that lose CD's left and right! :plain:

[polar bear 10]

I have a hard time believing that there's anyone left who doesn't have an always on internet connection, much less someone with a rig that can play ArmA 3.

I have played civ5 on a laptop while travelling on an airplane, but it would never occur to me to try ArmA there. The steam offline mode worked fine, though, and I understand airlines will be rolling out WIFI in the next few years anyway.

[dmarkwick 261]

I have a hard time believing that there's anyone left who doesn't have an always on internet connection, much less someone with a rig that can play ArmA 3.

Well, inability to imagine aside, I don't think it's a good enough reason to enforce Steam. Optional, sure fill your boots :) but I am unconvinced that Steamworks can be implemented without Steam.

I have played civ5 on a laptop while travelling on an airplane, but it would never occur to me to try ArmA there. The steam offline mode worked fine, though, and I understand airlines will be rolling out WIFI in the next few years anyway.

Anything tied to the presumed existence of always-on WIFI/internet is a bad idea IMO. It's true that Steam has an offline mode, but have you ever tried to install a Steam-managed game without needing online, and the subsequent forcing of updates?

[ItaliaPRIME 1]

I get my music on CD's.......legally and without using 3rd party apps. You don't hear me complaining about it. Why? Because i don't have to install a fucking client requiring me to be online just to play the music i BOUGHT, so tell me why i should do that with my games? :mad:

Oh...and i have about 500 games on CD and DVD and never lost any of them and all are still in good condition. I know it's a nice feature that Steam backup's your games but that does not mean that we are all a bunch of douches that lose CD's left and right! :plain:

You must be one of the few that still gets their music on CD's...and I wouldn't be surprised if you still have a VCR and record your shows on VHS tapes. I can understand this mindset if your internet connection isn't the greatest, as in most parts of the world it may not be.

You may not like it but like everything in this beautiful technologically advanced world eventually everything will go digital...analysts (see link below) are stating this year digital downloads will exceed physical copies.

I used to be in the same boat as you...always wondering hey what if something happens to the client and I wasted my money, but in the end I asked myself "What's wrong with installing a client to play my games" and I ask the same to you. Those of us who don't buy CD's and/or live with a 20th century mind set, enjoy accessing our music from any computer, from any internet connection, and/or mobile device and the same can be said with our games.

If you don't travel much then have fun with your 500+ games on CD/DVD, I'll go on vacation and play my games on my laptop without bringing/inserting the disc and without using illegal CD cracks on the exe. If I leave my laptop at home I can install a small 100MB game on a friends PC with my steam account (for internet issues/reliability) or something amazing if their rig can stand it.

I don't know how old you are or what your relationship status is but introducing a woman to mountain of games you collected since you were 10 isn't very appealing to said woman, unless she shares the same interests.

Oh and I've never lost any games or CD's but not everyone is perfect like you vriend.

***http://www.electronista.com/articles/11/03/30/analysts.see.digital.music.past.cds.in.2012/

[ItaliaPRIME 1]

I get my music on CD's.......legally and without using 3rd party apps. You don't hear me complaining about it. Why? Because i don't have to install a fucking client requiring me to be online just to play the music i BOUGHT, so tell me why i should do that with my games? :mad:

Oh...and i have about 500 games on CD and DVD and never lost any of them and all are still in good condition. I know it's a nice feature that Steam backup's your games but that does not mean that we are all a bunch of douches that lose CD's left and right! :plain:

You must be one of the few that still gets their music on CD's...and I wouldn't be surprised if you still have a VCR and record your shows on VHS tapes. I can understand this mindset if your internet connection isn't the greatest, as in most parts of the world it may not be.

You may not like it but like everything in this beautiful technologically advanced world eventually everything will go digital...analysts (see link below) are stating this year digital downloads will exceed physical copies.

I used to be in the same boat as you...always wondering hey what if something happens to the client and I wasted my money, but in the end I asked myself "What's wrong with installing a client to play my games" and I ask the same to you. Those of us who don't buy CD's and/or live with a 20th century mind set, enjoy accessing our music from any computer, from any internet connection, and/or mobile device and the same can be said with our games.

If you don't travel much then have fun with your 500+ games on CD/DVD, I'll go on vacation and play my games on my laptop without bringing/inserting the disc and without using illegal CD cracks on the exe. If I leave my laptop at home I can install a small 100MB game on a friends PC with my steam account (for internet issues/reliability) or something amazing if their rig can stand it.

I don't know how old you are or what your relationship status is but introducing a woman to mountain of games you collected since you were 10 isn't very appealing to said woman, unless she shares the same interests.

Oh and I've never lost any games or CD's but not everyone is perfect like you vriend.

***http://www.electronista.com/articles/11/03/30/analysts.see.digital.music.past.cds.in.2012/

[pathetic_berserker 4]

I have a hard time believing that there's anyone left who doesn't have an always on internet connection, much less someone with a rig that can play ArmA 3.

I have played civ5 on a laptop while travelling on an airplane, but it would never occur to me to try ArmA there. The steam offline mode worked fine, though, and I understand airlines will be rolling out WIFI in the next few years anyway.

Believe it or not but some connections may still have download limits. Me I'm a cheapskate and have a 15gig on peak 15 gig on peak per month deal most months it is more than enough for me but why should I fork out $100's of dollars per year just to ensure that my steam games update/patch at reasonable speeds.

[dmarkwick 261]

You must be one of the few that still gets their music on CD's...and I wouldn't be surprised if you still have a VCR and record your shows on VHS tapes.

I don't know how old you are or what your relationship status is but introducing a woman to mountain of games you collected since you were 10 isn't very appealing to said woman, unless she shares the same interests.

Apparently something as simple as personal preference will get you this kind of reaction from some people. You know, people who like to imagine things about other people simply to avoid any kind of agreement with something they don't actually do themselves.

[maddogx 13]

Apparently something as simple as personal preference will get you this kind of reaction from some people.

Bollocks! You must be an Apple user, srsly! :rolleyes:

Yeah, I don't see this thread going anywhere except down. To this point, none of the arguments for forcing Steam on everyone have held any real merit, the colourful recent additions by ItaliaPRIME aren't helping them any, and the poll result speaks for itself, of course.

[dale 11]

If you don't travel much then have fun with your 500+ games on CD/DVD, I'll go on vacation and play my games on my laptop without bringing/inserting the disc and without using illegal CD cracks on the exe. If I leave my laptop at home I can install a small 100MB game on a friends PC with my steam account (for internet issues/reliability) or something amazing if their rig can stand it.

I don't know how old you are or what your relationship status is but introducing a woman to mountain of games you collected since you were 10 isn't very appealing to said woman, unless she shares the same interests.

you've obviously never heard of demon tools lite and gamecopyworld.

Also if said woman doesn't like you for who you are, so you have to hide from that fact means she most probably wasn't worth the time or your lying to yourself ;)

[dmarkwick 261]

Bollocks! You must be an Apple user, srsly! :rolleyes:

I have an iPhone, so shoot me ;) :D

Apparently that makes me 100% susceptible to online client management of everything, or I'm a pretentious douche. Never, never because it's just "a good phone" :D

[antoineflemming 14]

I have an iPhone, so shoot me ;) :D

Apparently that makes me 100% susceptible to online client management of everything, or I'm a pretentious douche. Never, never because it's just "a good phone" :D

Android's better... jk. For me, I'd like it if the Steam version of ArmA3 had Steamworks. Or at least be able to recognize Steam friends for example, if it's possible to do that without Steamworks.

[ProfTournesol 956]

I have an iPhone, so shoot me ;) :D

Apparently that makes me 100% susceptible to online client management of everything, or I'm a pretentious douche. Never, never because it's just "a good phone" :D

I've never seen anybody phoning with an iphone

[nodunit 397]

http://www.thereticule.com/arma-3-wont-use-steam-workshop-will-have-better-mod-integration/

[ProfTournesol 956]

They could have answered in this topic too. We must search answer throughout the web...

[NielsS 10]

You must be one of the few that still gets their music on CD's...and I wouldn't be surprised if you still have a VCR and record your shows on VHS tapes. I can understand this mindset if your internet connection isn't the greatest, as in most parts of the world it may not be.

I guess you didn't understood what i was trying to say. I used the "music on CD's" analogy to explain that digital distribution isn't a bad thing, i use it for different media, but forcing a DRM through said distribution system is a very bad thing and people should have the freedom to aquire their media through other means.

I don't know how old you are or what your relationship status is but introducing a woman to mountain of games you collected since you were 10 isn't very appealing to said woman, unless she shares the same interests.

You'de be surprised but seeing you have 250+ more games on me you probably know what you're talking about. :)

Edited June 20, 2012 by NielsS

[polar bear 10]

The steam update issues are a BIS issue, they didn't seem to take steam very seriously and released patches there late and sometimes untested.

That should not have happened.

[W0lle 1046]

NielsS

Please refrain from making posts in all bold letters or fancy colors. :)

[Herbal Influence 10]

http://www.thereticule.com/arma-3-wont-use-steam-workshop-will-have-better-mod-integration/

Wow ... thanks for that link! I love BIS for their spirit and sense of freedom since 2001!

I am happy with the poll and BIS politics.

Let's stay serious.

Let's stay free.

Freedom cannot be divided.

See my signature.

[Clowns2 10]

no steam, keep it optional!!!!!

There is already a thread for steam in A3

Agreed.

[xxbbcc 6]

Please, absolutely no Steam.

[zalifer 10]

While I love the features provided in Steamworks (simple server browser, friends, achievements, stats tracking and most of all steam workshop for mods) I don't think it's fair to make A3 a steam only game, when it has survived for so long without it.

There are 1 or 2 games out there with support for steamworks on steam copies, but that function without it fine, If possible, that would be my preference. I doubt it will happen however, as that is another chunk of dev work. Although, maybe some of the money from all the steam sales thanks to dayz could cover some of the steamworks integration :D

[-Paladin- 10]

What?

err, yes, a game is licensed for a single instance. whether it is a multi-player online instance or a local installed instance - you have always only ever been able to own/use and install a single instance. any online multi-player service will check for duplicate instances of a game-key and prevent multiple instances across accounts. that is perfectly acceptable and is not the point I was making.

Steam are not simply preventing multiple instances of a game across accounts - they are artificially preventing their customers from selling their own property. they are doing this despite the fact that they have the means to enable game keys to be transferred between accounts. This is not about preventing piracy, this is about choking the used game market to increase new purchases.

like many gamers today, you have been fooled by recent debates as to whether "software can be owned by the people who pay for it". Well, yes it can. I do not own the right to make duplicates, but I own a single license which I am LEGALLY entitled to sell on. Of course, recent changes to Terms and conditions mean that this can be prevented. But shouldn't gamers say: "wait a minute, not long ago I was able to sell my used games and recoup some of my own money. NOW, suddenly because the industry has the technology to prevent that (ie: tied to online servers) they are suddenly preventing me from selling my own property!" :rolleyes:

but no, of course gamers will not say that. Like you, they will just repeat Steam's recent T&C and say "oh well, you're just not allowed to sell your own game".

I'm not sure when exactly humans entirely lost their spines and became invertebrate. show some indignation when companies are clearly pulling a scam on you! :butbut:

Your property is the CD/DvD and the box.

The software on this mediums is property of the company(intellectual property) and they can do with it what they want.Even stop you using it or others.

You can sell the Box and CD.

Company's use steam because they don´t have to reinvent the wheel and build up a infrastructure and keep it maintained.

If every company did it with sproket like sells you would have 20 acc´s to keep track off and for every new company a new acc. Its not steams fault that you cant resell your games, the company(Developer) giving it to steam is guilty.

There must be just one Dev that wants his games be resell and steam will add this future.

But what kind of Dev wants this? Loose money?Keep the door open for pirates?We talk here about capitalist company's and not charity organisation´s.

Buying retail is not the solution because of Eula, keep in mind its the company's property that you are allowed to use on there terms and if you don´t like it don´t use it.

Even when games are not sold on steam there is some kind of acc binding and this will not dispear because you want it, now there is origin and Blizzard thing steam is by far, FAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRR the lesser evil and by far more client orientate than the other two platforms.

And selling retail gives the Dev´s even less money.

We are not talking abut water and breed but games that you can live without.

You are in the minority and if you don´t change you will not play any kind of games in the future.

The market has spoken.

[onlyrazor 11]

You are in the minority and if you don´t change you will not play any kind of games in the future.

The market has spoken.

And your proof would be?

[celery 8]

Your property is the CD/DvD and the box.

The software on this mediums is property of the company(intellectual property) and they can do with it what they want.Even stop you using it or others.

You can sell the Box and CD.

I wonder why the above should be considered an argument or even a point. Everyone knows that you don't have unlimited rights to the software. The critical issue is that more often than not nowadays you can't sell the box and media to someone because they become paper weight the moment you bind the software to some account. Another critical issue is also that you can indeed sell the physical media of non-binding software as opposed to digitally bought software. No matter how you look at it, your rights and options as a customer and consumer are getting diminished, and that's why I find it silly that it's other consumers that play advocate to that practice.