Steamworks, add it in or not?

[dmarkwick 261]

..... aaaaand the cyclic discussion starts off all over again :D

[gossamersolid 155]

YES please, add STEAMworks to ArmA III.

Why?!

- Is very convenient. Only one online time activation, no more DRM added, no limit activations or disc check.

- STEAMworks is NOT exclusive, you can still buy your game where you prefer (digital or retail).

- You don't need the disc anymore. The game is on your profile wherever you go.

- Achievements are always fun.

- Leaderboards

- Persistent identity: you can check plenty of your gamer stats

- Automatic background updates.

- Cloud saving

- STEAM Workshop would be the perfect solution to increase ArmA MODing community. One click and you already have the MOD subscribed and automaticaly downloading to the game.

- One click join. This is the best. Even yyou are not ingame, thanks to the standalone client you can check easily and fast if your friends are playing and join their match with just one click.

- No more accounts. Every PC gamer have already an STEAM account.

- Free Weekends: STEAM can run free weekends to encourage people to try the game. Best feature to increase game player base.

- Easy to check game's popularity thanks to public stats and through your friends list (you have information about how many of your friends have this game)

- STEAM Overlay is very comfortable to chat

I don't see any GOOD argument to NOt want it.

Almost all of those features either have nothing to do with Steamworks or can be done without Steamworks.

[enad 11]

I'm curious how much work a separate Steamworks version is, I see ALOT of games do it these days. Even small indie devs, so It definitely isn't costly.

Steamworks adds only convince for those who want to use it, which is why a Steam only version would be ideal.

Thinking how easy it would be to join a friends coop game...or Day Z server..It makes me wish ArmA 2 had Steamworks. I doubt ArmA 3 will, but a seperate Steam only Steamworks version is a great idea..

[naizarak 4]

no steam. i want my games standalone without any 3rd party middle-ware

[T0bias 1]

Steamworks is, all things considered, a pretty TERRIBLE drm system.

The main issue with it is that if you lose your connection unexpectedly, you cannot play your games. In order to play offline you need to be connected, set steam to offline mode, and THEN you can disconnect. The problem with this is no one ever chooses to be disconnected from the internet. You also hear loads of stories of service and server failure causing issues for the people who bought the games, being unable to download or play them because "the servers are too busy to handle your request" or some such. The funny thing is, people who pirated those games can just launch and play them with no effort.

Piracy is a service problem. When you implement DRM that makes it more convenient to play a pirated copy then it is to play a bought and paid for version, you are just inciting piracy. The other side to this coin is that THERE IS NO WAY TO STOP PIRACY, no matter what DRM you use people in the "scene" will just view cracking your game as a fun challenge. This is why selling games DRM free is the best possible option - if someone really wants to take the game and play it without paying for it, they're going to do it and you cannot stop them. Accept it. The only way to fight piracy is to provide better service to players then the scene is.

The only reason steam is accepted is because they offer such great prices and deals. I know this because I have over 300 games on steam, but even if offered I will choose not to buy Arma 3 on steam, probably go for a boxed collectors edition if they have something like that. If I'm going to buy a game full price, I definitely won't get it from steam.

I would seriously urge BI to use gog.com as primary digital sales platform for arma 3.

[zoog 18]

I voted NO, but I do think there should be some kind of built in friends system where you can easily join your friends game etc. which is also part of Steamworks features.

[enad 11]

I was reading over my older thread about this subject and saw something about mod downloading through Steam, this was before Steam workshop. Now I think Steamworks integration would be an even better idea for ArmA III.

If anyone has Skyrim on PC, you've probably noticed how damn easier and convenient Steam Workshop is. It's a simple click and it installs for you to the right directory. This could be done just as easily with ArmA 3, click download and it installs to it's own @Whatever/Addons folder and auto enables it so when you launch the game it's ready to go.

It may not seem like much but it could potentially bring alot more sales to ArmA III, people may have heard about ArmA 2's modding capabilities but are intimidating about actually installing mods, they think it's a hard process. With Steam Workshop, they will feel comfortable just going into the Workshop and clicking Download on all their favorite mods, not having to worry about extracting/dragging and dropping(Not that those things are hard).

Some of you may fear it'll take away some of the community from Armaholic or the Official BIS Forums, but if you look at Skyrim, Skyrimnexus is still going strong and has had no problems. People like me use the workshop and Nexus. There won't be any divide in the community because of this.

This is just another Steamworks feature that I absolutely love. I feel Steamworks for ArmA III would be a great idea stronger than ever now.

[NoRailgunner 0]

Why is it that most US players think that everyone has to like the comfyness of restrictive systems? Can't you just download/copy-paste something or use a downloader/launcher that doesn't limit the game or the use of custom made addon/mods/missions? Grown up only with consoles, did get all on silver platter - got a pc and is instantly overchallenged doing simple things? What's next - only single-button controllers - just because everything else is "rocket science"?? :rolleyes:

[jonneymendoza 10]

Why is it that most US players think that everyone has to like the comfyness of restrictive systems? Can't you just download/copy-paste something or use a downloader/launcher that doesn't limit the game or the use of custom made addon/mods/missions? Grown up only with consoles, did get all on silver platter - got a pc and is instantly overchallenged doing simple things? What's next - only single-button controllers - just because everything else is "rocket science"?? :rolleyes:

by your definition we might as well make games more more and more harder to use.

wanna list all the online games? sure, forget clicking on a single menu button to do it. type in a script instead..

wanna change res/AA/graphics settings? sure, find the config file and figure out what values you need to edit.

[wickerman 10]

no steam, keep it optional!!!!!

Steam games are definitely not buy from me

[LeeManatee 4]

i bought and activated arma x on steam. i have no problem running it with/without mods. i use six updater.

[jonneymendoza 10]

Six updater needs to be implemented within Arma 3. the job sickboy has done on that mod is sensational. But if you are not a fan of the benefits of steam then u wont like six updater.

Six updater is like steam/steam works. it manages all your mods, has a fantastic game browser and soon it will have a friends list

[BlueWolf 1]

#%*K NO

I will never in this lifetime agree to steam terms or buy any game with steam labels on the box -Period.

[enad 11]

People are so ignorant. Please, leave the stone age. It will benefit everyone.

[Hicks_09 10]

Steam has mostly been a nuisance whenever I've had to use it. The offline mode has been iffy. The obligatory updates are a nuisance and it's yet another DRM. The features that some find useful are of neither use nor appeal to me.

Optionally sell it on steam sure. Sell it on lots of platforms to give people the choice be it sprocket, gog, origin or steam etc.

Tie it to their DRM and it's an ignore and a no buy. That and an encourage others to ignore.

[enad 11]

I swear this is the only forum on the internet(Ironically) that doesn't seem to have access to internet. If you're online here you obviously have internet, stop complaining about Steams offline mode.

[PRE 1]

If I have the choice I'd rather not have my game on Steam .I know it's supposed to make things easier and give you some added features, but some of the allure of pc gaming (for me anyway) is figuring it out, downloading and installing mods/patches, and- or just getting the pc game to run on my system( as most games don't ever run well on my systems first go). I guess what I'm saying is I don't want the convenience that steam supposedly gives you, I don't want another program on my computer I dont need,I don't need adds and special offers, I dont want another password to remember. Similarly I dont want an apple computer with apps that make everything easier than a pc. It seems to me I have more control and understanding of the files and folders when a game runs by itself,and I get enjoyment (for the most part) from figuring it out. I know thats because I just dont know enough about how steam is organized in my files, but Why do I need steam? For the leaderboard? No thanks.

[naizarak 4]

People don't want steam because it's nothing more than tacked-on middle ware that doesn't enhance the game in any way. I don't need third-party apps running 24/7 on my computer, I don't want ads shoved in my face, I don't want to navigate a maze to install some mods, and I don't want to handle licenses. Most of all I don't want my "purchase" to exist as a snip of code on some hard drive half way around the world. I always buy physical copies.

People aren't ignorant, and we're certainly not living in the stone age just because we avoid the "convenience" of third party shovel ware.

[Nicholas 5]

The best part about Steam? You can disable pretty much every feature. Don't like Steam being run in-game? Disable it.

Don't like the ads that Steam shows you every time you start up Steam or if there is a new sale? Disable it.

Don't like Automatic Updates? Want to install them yourself? Disable it.

Steam only uses roughly 50,000K of memory. Far less than any web browser. How many of you play ArmA with your browser open?

(Click for larger image)

Also, if you notice, my CPU usage is between 0% and 2%, plenty of power left for ArmA, no?

Mods and addons work exactly the same as the retail version or digital version bought from Bohemia, they are only installed in different directories. Which if you're too lazy to click through all of them, simply make a shortcut to the ArmA directory.

---------- Post added at 20:11 ---------- Previous post was at 20:02 ----------

See here, if you are too lazy to click on all those folder to get to the ArmA directory, simply make a shortcut to it.

(Click for larger image)

Edited May 21, 2012 by Nicholas

[Hicks_09 10]

You're forgetting the part where you have to update to the most recent version before first run.

Offline mode is a headache in its own right...

Steam could require 50,000K or 500,000K. If it's not required then that memory isn't needed regardless.

Where's the option to use steam as a store to buy things but then just disable steam? Oh right... it's just a drm with shinny wrapping paper.

Steam as an option for people that want to use it is great for those that like it. For those of us that don't like it, don't want it or don't need it - having it forced down our throats is making clear just what steam is: A drm with some fancy wallpaper. Choices people! Make it an option but don't force it on everyone. Unless you'd be happy to have origin? That's just like steam now isn't it... Except it's by EA. Disable the overlay, choose if you want to update (not sure if you have to do an update before first run) Currently using 90,296K, has an iffy offline mode, choose the install path, make shortcuts. So you'd be happy for it to be tied to origin?

Best part about steam/origin? Gog is gaining ground with earlier Bohemia titles also for sale there. No overlay, no ram usage, no forced updating, no need for an offline mode as there's no client, choose exactly where you want to install, however many times and on however many computers, includes bonus content...

Even better than that would be if there was the choice over which outlet you wanted to buy from and if you have the choice to opt in to which ever drm you like. Or don't like.

[Nicholas 5]

You're forgetting the part where you have to update to the most recent version before first run.

It doesn't run an update when the game is run for the first time, it installs the required components, such as DirectX or BattlEye.

I am well aware of GOG as well and enjoy it quite a bit, I've purchased many games from them, including all available Bohemia Interactive titles. But I think that people are just blowing the whole Steam thing out of proportion. And Steam as a DRM is the best damn DRM in town.

[NoRailgunner 0]

What about standalone games that just run and can be enjoyed without "the man in the middle"? Why cheering up someone who is putting you on his leash - just because of all those special offers/sales he makes? What is more narrow-minded: to have options/choices or to be fully dependent on someone who likes to makes some profit with his online distribution, sales & marketing? Just support BIS directly and buy A3 from their own online-store. Guess its just very convient to follow + pay the first one who sells candys, instead of going around and trying to directly support the people who create and made them. Those risk of new ways can't be ignored - let's stay forever at Steam and repeat/sugarcoat what their salesman said.... :)

[batto 17]

And Steam as a DRM is the best damn DRM in town.

There is no such thing as good DRM =)

Why cheering up someone who is putting you on his leash - just because of all those special offers/sales he makes?

One of those offers could be ArmA 3 =)

[jonneymendoza 10]

The best part about Steam? You can disable pretty much every feature. Don't like Steam being run in-game? Disable it.

brilliant post.

I am still waiting on just ONE SINGLE reason why arma 3 should not be a steamworks game. just one reason.

[Hicks_09 10]

brilliant post.

I am still waiting on just ONE SINGLE reason why arma 3 should not be a steamworks game. just one reason.

Don't like Steam being run in-game? Disable it. Steam needs to be running to launch the game be it online or offline mode. Disabling steam means you won't be able to run the game. I'm guessing you're talking about the overlay.

If it's shackled to steamworks then you're going to need to run steam. Let the people who want to buy it via steam get it there, they can have it in their list and launcher. Why should the rest of us that want nothing to do with steam be shackled to it? And what about those that want to launch it via GFWL or Origin? Or is it more a case of EA and Microsoft are too nasty but fawning over Valve is fine?

67.37% of potential customers that have answered that poll so far, a majority do not want it shackled to steam. What kind of reason do you want? That for some people it is unreliable, for some it has features they cannot disable and do not want, for some they simply do not want an online drm included. How about those that have no interest in achievements or the social features? What about those that have no desire to give money to valve?

Why shouldn't it be a steamworks title? Why shouldn't it be an Origin or GWFL title? Because for some customers they are nothing but a hassle that for them does not work reliably. They pay money for the title why should they have to jump through even more hoops to get it working? Example I had no desire to use origin but when using it with Mass Effect 3 I've had no problems. Compare that with Deus Ex Human Revolution tied to steam and I've had connection issues and there was a problem patching at first. I still see no reason to force origin on someone just because it worked fine for me. Removing origin from Mass Effect 3 wouldn't take away any feature I use. Removing steamworks from DX HR wouldn't remove anything I use either. So why include either origin or steamworks?