ArmA 3 on Steamworks?

[Barman42 1]

;2304167']Read the site Placebo' date=' it states the price as £69.99 which is obviously wrong as stated here by a BI PR.

As of now prices are shown as £24.99/£39.99/£69.99

I don't see what you're getting at. The prices you list as shown are exactly the same as the prices Korneel mentions. £69.99 is not incorrect for the price of the Supporter version.

[viper[cww] 14]

VIPER[CWW]: Nope, that's the sign for the Euro on the A3 page.

Ha!! Right you are, 300% made that clear :P

Site needs to be fixed for region I guess.

[antoineflemming 14]

Last time I checked it was a tactical shooter. Not an FPS and not a milsim. :icon_rolleyes:

No, feel free to prove me wrong.

I thought Tactical Shooter was a whole 'nother genre too (you know, Rainbow Six, Ghost Recon (except for GRAW/2 Console and GRFS), Splinter Cell - pretty much Ubisoft's old shooters)?

[T.S.C.Plage 0]

It's not an FPS nor a milsim and fits best into this genre.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tactical_shooter (see first entry in the references)

[cossack8559 10]

A couple of these I asked on another Steam related thread, but I may get a little more idea from this thread too.

1/ I buy the disc version (I like hard copy rather than digital download). The key that comes with the disc, will the disc take me directly to Steam, if I am internet connected, as I believe its going to be a Steam activated key, or will the key be in the box (so as to speak, old way) and simply do it as usual ?

You install the game as normal, pop the Disc in, this will prompt you to download and install Steam, once that is done the game will install as normal. You'll have a leaflet with the box which will contain the key, you will be asked by steam to enter the key during or before instillation.

2/ I have the game loaded and ready, once that happens and I want to look around the game, I assume I can be off line in SP, will Steam run anywhere in the background, or will the game run o.k. with Steam turned off in SP. If Steam has to run for some reason in the background in SP, what, if any, is the likely performance hit ?

Steam is always running, whether you are playing in online or offline mode, the Steam app it's self will be running on your computer. I have been using it since 2005, i have never noticed any performance issues when using Steam.

3/ Further down the line some mod/addons are made for A3, I would want to download some interesting ones. I download these from the Steam Workshop area, are these then kept in a Steam library on my pc, or can they be moved over or a separate back up copy of the mod/addon stored on a separate HDD drive ?

When you find a mod you like from the Steam Workshop, you hit a subscribe button, this then downloads and installs the mod for you, if you load up steam on another computer and install Arma 3 on that machine via Steam, it will automatically download the mods you subbed to. (I use this for both Civ 5 and Skyrim, works brilliantly) The mods are downloaded into a mod folder inside the game's main folder on your machine

4/ MP, I join in a group that has been formed, does the server have to be Steam run, or can any server be used. I assume here that Steam will be running in the background, how much of a hit to performance will this be, or is there virtually no performance loss ?

I can't answer this 100% as i don't really know, but i own games on Steam such as Warband that clans have their own dedicated servers. Yes Steam has to be running, and no, i do not notice any performance issues at all.

5/ Is Steam subscription based or free to use for everything A3 based, i.e. the game (once purchased) and the mod/addons ?

Steam it's self is free, you will buy Arma 3 only, there are no monthly fees using Steam. All user created content via the Steam workshop is free.

Thanks, sorry for being a ‘noob’ at Steam, but really I haven’t dealt with Steam at all in the past.

No problem, i had very similar questions back in 2005, and i was quite negative towards having to use Steam. Since then i personally think it is one of the best things to happen to PC gaming.

[Sim.M 48]

Here's my issues with Steam for Arma3;

I have to install it in the same directory as every other Steam game - I have a SSD for my 'main' game (Arma2:OA) and my operating system. I use a lot of mods (about 15GB worth) and have other games on my E: drive. If I have to use Steam I will have to install Arma3 on my E: drive and not my SSD as I simply don't have enough space on it for every other game I have on my system.

Steam un-installs and re-installs games on its own - I had Arma2:OA on Steam and after the second time it did that I went to direct2drive and just downloaded my own copy of the game.

Steam updates the game without my authorization - as others have mentioned even when told not to autoupdate Steam does.

Steam multiplay overlay is a total waste of time for me. I belong to a Unit and play only with other members of my Unit or guests or as a guest on another teams server. I don't have to 'look' for friends - they are on my team already. So having something monitor my game time is a waste of time.

I don't need or want 'achievements' or any of the kiddie stuff that Steam likes to add to games. Frankly I'm too old for that junk and not interested in any way. Again, Steam is monitoring my gameplay and I don't want it to be 'watched' by a 3rd party.

Any unwanted program running on my system should be my choice to turn on or off - the way things look (and work) with Steam is that it must be turned on to play. If it was just a verification or something each time it started (and then Steam was shut off) I'd be OK with that - but having it monitor me, track me and basically take up bandwidth, CPU cycles and RAM to spy on me is not what I want.

While I understand why BIS wants to use Steam (money) I think they are making a big mistake not listening to their customers who do not want to have 3rd party software as a requirement to enjoy their game.

I know a lot of you guys are new to the series, and that's great - but those of us who have pretty much avoided Steam because of the reasons I posted (and I'm sure there are tons of other ones) do not want it. We are not being given a choice by BIS and from what I see and understand there is no reason why Arma3 cannot be sold as the previous titles were.

Let the buyers choose. If they want Steam - that is their choice. If they don't - then don't force us to buy it from Steam or use their 3rd party software to run our game.

[DjDaemonNL 1]

I have to install it in the same directory as every other Steam game - I have a SSD for my 'main' game (Arma2:OA) and my operating system. I use a lot of mods (about 15GB worth) and have other games on my E: drive. If I have to use Steam I will have to install Arma3 on my E: drive and not my SSD as I simply don't have enough space on it for every other game I have on my system.

They actually updated this a while ago, Now you can choose where you want to install something :)

Pic in link

> https://www.dropbox.com/s/vct6psvve2mshcx/steam_install_thingy.png

Edited February 26, 2013 by DjDaemonNL

[Dwarden 1124]

7th_serf , lot of urban myths in your post

STEAM for months already allow select target install folders anywhere on drives (multiple, customizable)

steam can't uninstall game on it's own, re-installs happen it's bug, being fixed

steam auto-updates disable was fixed several times, should work already correct

steam overlay can be disabled globally or per title basis

anyway the reasons we chose STEAM is because of all the offering of the platform, things You don't see but we as developers going to use

[tonygrunt 10]

steam can't uninstall game on it's own, re-installs happen it's bug, being fixed

It has happened at least once with Velvet Assassin. Steam issued a broken update for the game which had the effect to delete the game from (almost?) everyone's PC (my included), trying to reinstall the game would just create the game folder with no files in it. It took 1-2 days to fix it.

[warrick 10]

I love ARMA and i respect you guys for the outstanding game/customer support, but it seems i'll have to skip ARMAIII, unless some kind of a miracle happens by providing us with a steam-free version (i wouldn't even mind waiting for that to happen). Nothing can beat sprocket/bistore distribution for its simplicity and cleanness if you ask me.

[Steiner34 12]

7th_serf , lot of urban myths in your post

STEAM for months already allow select target install folders anywhere on drives (multiple, customizable)

steam can't uninstall game on it's own, re-installs happen it's bug, being fixed

steam auto-updates disable was fixed several times, should work already correct

steam overlay can be disabled globally or per title basis

anyway the reasons we chose STEAM is because of all the offering of the platform, things You don't see but we as developers going to use

Well Sir maybe it offers you as devs good opportunities but for us the customers it means to be at the mercy of a third party company.

Just read their Terms of Agreement:

If you are a Subscriber whose primary residence is in one of the member countries of the European Union (an “EU Subscriberâ€), your Subscriber relationship is with Valve S.a.r.l. (“Valve EUâ€). For all other Subscribers, your Subscriber relationship is with Valve Corporation (“Valve USâ€).

If you are a Subscriber whose primary residence is in one of the member countries of the European Union (an “EU Subscriberâ€), your Subscriber relationship is with Valve S.a.r.l. (“Valve EUâ€). For all other Subscribers, your Subscriber relationship is with Valve Corporation (“Valve USâ€).

So basically im not a customer anymore but being degraded to a subscriber which is doing a contract with Valve not with the game company like Bohemia Interactive anymore.

As a Subscriber you may obtain access to certain services, software and content available to Subscribers. The Steam client software and any other software, content, and updates you download or access via Steam, including but not limited to Valve or third-party video games and in-game content, and any virtual items you trade, sell or purchase in a Steam Subscription Marketplace are referred to in this Agreement as “Softwareâ€; the rights to access and/or use any services, Software and/or content accessible through Steam are referred to in this Agreement as "Subscriptions."

Steam may grant me the right(So basically Im at the mercy of a company which can give or deny me the access) to use these services/licenses like playing a game I payed 50 Euros.

Steam and your Subscription(s) require the automatic download and installation of Software onto your computer. Valve hereby grants, and you accept, a limited, terminable, non-exclusive license and right to use the Software for your personal use in accordance with this Agreement, including the Subscription Terms.

So after paying 50 to play a game I only get a so called limited, terminable and non exclusive license which basically means when Steam thinks the limit has been reached they take away the license and I can throw my 50 Euros into the garbage.

You understand that this Agreement (including applicable Subscription Terms) do not entitle you to future updates, new versions or other enhancements of the Software associated with a particular Subscription, although Valve may choose to provide such updates, etc. in its sole discretion.

So even the so called auto updates or easy updatablity which was favored by the Pro-Steam members is not even guaranteed.

TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW, NEITHER VALVE, ITS LICENSORS, NOR ITS OR THEIR AFFILIATES, NOR ANY OF VALVE’S SERVICE PROVIDERS, SHALL BE LIABLE IN ANY WAY FOR LOSS OR DAMAGE OF ANY KIND RESULTING FROM THE USE OR INABILITY TO USE STEAM, YOUR ACCOUNT, YOUR SUBSCRIPTIONS AND THE SOFTWARE INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, LOSS OF GOODWILL, WORK STOPPAGE, COMPUTER FAILURE OR MALFUNCTION, OR ANY AND ALL OTHER COMMERCIAL DAMAGES OR LOSSES. IN NO EVENT WILL VALVE BE LIABLE FOR ANY INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, CONSEQUENTIAL, SPECIAL, PUNITIVE, EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, OR ANY OTHER DAMAGES ARISING OUT OF OR IN ANY WAY CONNECTED WITH STEAM, THE SOFTWARE, THE SUBSCRIPTIONS, AND ANY INFORMATION AVAILABLE IN CONNECTION THEREWITH, OR THE DELAY OR INABILITY TO USE THE SOFTWARE, SUBSCRIPTIONS OR ANY INFORMATION, EVEN IN THE EVENT OF VALVE’S OR ITS AFFILIATES’ FAULT, TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE), STRICT LIABILITY, BREACH OF CONTRACT, OR BREACH OF VALVE’S WARRANTY AND EVEN IF VALVE HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES. THESE LIMITATIONS AND EXCLUSIONS REGARDING DAMAGES APPLY EVEN IF ANY REMEDY FAILS TO PROVIDE ADEQUATE RECOMPENSE.

So in all those named cases the customer will loose basically all his games he payed with his hard earned money. Do you really think thats so awesome to loose everything you spend money on. Thats worse than the global 2008 banking fraud.

NEITHER VALVE NOR ITS AFFILIATES GUARANTEE CONTINUOUS, ERROR-FREE, VIRUS-FREE OR SECURE OPERATION AND ACCESS TO STEAM, THE SOFTWARE, YOUR ACCOUNT AND/OR YOUR SUBSCRIPTIONS(S) OR ANY INFORMATION AVAILABLE IN CONNECTION THEREWITH.

So even in the case Steam would spread a virus to your computer you wont get anything in return but in fact you alone have to face the consequences.

alve may amend this Agreement (including any Subscription Terms or Rules of Use) at any time in its sole discretion. If Valve amends the Agreement, such amendment shall be effective thirty (30) days after Valve provides you with notice of the amended Agreement, either via e-mail or as a notification within the Software. You can view the Agreement at any time at http://www.steampowered.com/. Your failure to cancel your Account, or cease use of the Subscription(s) affected by the amendment, within thirty (30) days after receiving notification of the amendment, will constitute your acceptance of the amended terms. If you don’t agree to the amendments or to any of the terms in this Agreement, your only remedy is to cancel your Account or to cease use of the affected Subscription(s). Valve shall not have any obligation to refund any fees that may have accrued to your Account before cancellation of your Account or cessation of use of any Subscription, nor shall Valve have any obligation to prorate any fees in such circumstances.

So in the case for example lets pretend Steam would amend his Terms like saying hey were going to charge the users 10 Euros a month to continue using the platform and you would fail to agree in 30 days or you would disagree thea would lock/delete your account and you would loose ALL YOUR GAMES without any sort of refund. You know what I call that? Fraud.....

http://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/english/

What I can see here is that the customer gets screwed over by all means. I cant even believe that those Terms are still legal in Europe. Its nothing but a big fraud which forces us the customers to give up all our rights just to bow down to a US hosted company.... Great job BI...... No more money for you from me. You've lost me as loyal customers who bought all of youre games since Operation Flashpoint.... I'm not willing to become a "happy" Steamslave.....

Edited February 26, 2013 by Steiner34

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

So basically im not a customer anymore but being degraded to a subscriber which is doing a contract with Valve not with the game company like Bohemia Interactive anymore.

A subscriber is a customer.

I don't get this hysteria about Steam's EULA - Steam has been out for almost 10 years now - no major scandals and/or lawsuits on my memory, yet what are people here afraid of? That VALVe will arrest their account FOR NO REASON? Just because?

Doesn't happen.

P.S. Having 500 games on Steam may be grotesque insanity, but one game? One game - ArmA III? I'll take Steam. Besides, ArmA III needs Steam in order to survive and thrive in the MP scene.

P.S. <<--- Add me to friends - reinstalled Steam as soon as ArmA3.com website came back up. :cc:

Edited February 26, 2013 by Iroquois Pliskin

[RadioActiveLobster 10]

Here's my issues with Steam for Arma3;

I have to install it in the same directory as every other Steam game - I have a SSD for my 'main' game (Arma2:OA) and my operating system. I use a lot of mods (about 15GB worth) and have other games on my E: drive. If I have to use Steam I will have to install Arma3 on my E: drive and not my SSD as I simply don't have enough space on it for every other game I have on my system.

No you don't, STEAM supports installing to other drives/folders.

Steam un-installs and re-installs games on its own - I had Arma2:OA on Steam and after the second time it did that I went to direct2drive and just downloaded my own copy of the game.

I've never encountered this, can't comment.

Steam updates the game without my authorization - as others have mentioned even when told not to autoupdate Steam does.

Again, have never encountered this. If I set a game to not update, it doesn't update.

Steam multiplay overlay is a total waste of time for me. I belong to a Unit and play only with other members of my Unit or guests or as a guest on another teams server. I don't have to 'look' for friends - they are on my team already. So having something monitor my game time is a waste of time.

Then turn the Overlay off.

I don't need or want 'achievements' or any of the kiddie stuff that Steam likes to add to games. Frankly I'm too old for that junk and not interested in any way. Again, Steam is monitoring my gameplay and I don't want it to be 'watched' by a 3rd party.

Then ignore them.

Any unwanted program running on my system should be my choice to turn on or off - the way things look (and work) with Steam is that it must be turned on to play. If it was just a verification or something each time it started (and then Steam was shut off) I'd be OK with that - but having it monitor me, track me and basically take up bandwidth, CPU cycles and RAM to spy on me is not what I want.

The impact of STEAM (in terms of performance) is basically non existent.

While I understand why BIS wants to use Steam (money) I think they are making a big mistake not listening to their customers who do not want to have 3rd party software as a requirement to enjoy their game.

So you would rather have no alpha (in a week, it's STEAM that's letting them do that) and a game that won't come out till 2014?

I know a lot of you guys are new to the series, and that's great - but those of us who have pretty much avoided Steam because of the reasons I posted (and I'm sure there are tons of other ones) do not want it. We are not being given a choice by BIS and from what I see and understand there is no reason why Arma3 cannot be sold as the previous titles were.

I've played since the OFP days, I've used STEAM for over 8 years. Hell, I have STEAM set to launch with Windows and I disabled almost everything from launching with Windows. Since you see "no reason" why ArmA II cannot be sold as previous titles you've obviously not actually read any of the reasons they've posted for why they chose STEAM.

Let the buyers choose. If they want Steam - that is their choice. If they don't - then don't force us to buy it from Steam or use their 3rd party software to run our game.

I guess they should strip out all the 3rd party software from the game. Goodbye PhysX and all those other 3rd party software used in game development.

[Steiner34 12]

A subscriber is a customer.

I don't get this hysteria about Steam's EULA - Steam has been out for almost 10 years now - no major scandals and/or lawsuits on my memory, yet what are people here afraid of? That VALVe will arrest their account FOR NO REASON? Just because?

Doesn't happen.

P.S. Having 500 games on Steam may be grotesque insanity, but one game? One game - ArmA III? I'll take Steam. Besides, ArmA III needs Steam in order to survive and thrive in the MP scene.

Well maybe you know that but it is not allowed to create mulitple accounts and If they catch you like comparing login data and IPs they can ban all of your accounts. Also I personally think a lot of people have more than 1 game in their list. I have for example 12 games in it and unfortunately if something goes wrong I will loose all of them just because Steam decides to do so.

Arma doesnt need Steam to survive. Through the DayZ hype BI made so much money in a year that it should be enough to make at least Arma 3 and Arma 4 or did they spend everything on buying expensive cars and enjoying life and not investing it in the company? Well then yes they have big problems.....

[Assifuah 1]

Hopefully modders don't have to go through the Workshop to upload content for ARMA III! Would be a real pain do do that seeing as I'm already used to mod installation/tweaking processes we use with A2/OA at the moment.

[RadioActiveLobster 10]

Well maybe you know that but it is not allowed to create mulitple accounts and If they catch you like comparing login data and IPs they can ban all of your accounts. Also I personally think a lot of people have more than 1 game in their list. I have for example 12 games in it and unfortunately if something goes wrong I will loose all of them just because Steam decides to do so.

Arma doesnt need Steam to survive. Through the DayZ hype BI made so much money in a year that it should be enough to make at least Arma 3 and Arma 4 or did they spend everything on buying expensive cars and enjoying life and not investing it in the company? Well then yes they have big problems.....

There is nothing preventing you from having multiple steam accounts. As long as you are not using multiple accounts for anything that breaks ToS (such as getting around a game ban, trading/selling games, etc..) then you have no problems.

I also took a look through the Terms of Service for STORE.BIStudio.com, saw this...

The right to access our Site or use our services is strictly held by us and we reserve the right to remove or limit your access to the site or the access to the services of our Site for any or no reason.

I can only assume you will no longer be supporting the Official BI Studio Store as they have the right to remove your access for any or no reason. You wouldn't want to be a hypocrite, would you?

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

There is nothing preventing you from having multiple steam accounts. As long as you are not using multiple accounts for anything that breaks ToS (such as getting around a game ban, trading/selling games, etc..) then you have no problems.

QFT

I also took a look through the Terms of Service for STORE.BIStudio.com, saw this...

I can only assume you will no longer be supporting the Official BI Studio Store as they have the right to remove your access for any or no reason. You wouldn't want to be a hypocrite, would you?

Heh-heh, people never read their CONTRACTUAL agreements, do they? Well, at least Steam is educating the general public - that's a very big plus.

[tonygrunt 10]

Well maybe you know that but it is not allowed to create mulitple accounts and If they catch you like comparing login data and IPs they can ban all of your accounts. Also I personally think a lot of people have more than 1 game in their list. I have for example 12 games in it and unfortunately if something goes wrong I will loose all of them just because Steam decides to do so.

Where did you hear that? You can have multiple accounts. What do you think happens with all the people that get vac-banned? They create a new account and buy the game again.

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

Where did you hear that? You can have multiple accounts. What do you think happens with all the people that get vac-banned? They create a new account and buy the game again.

"Proffffffit", as Teladi would say. Altho, hardcore abuse of this would lead to repercussions I'd imagine, like crashing several servers for a week straight with your 5 accounts.

[Steiner34 12]

There is nothing preventing you from having multiple steam accounts. As long as you are not using multiple accounts for anything that breaks ToS (such as getting around a game ban, trading/selling games, etc..) then you have no problems.

Is there any official statement to that claim cause what Ive heard is that multiple accounts are not allowed.

I also took a look through the Terms of Service for STORE.BIStudio.com, saw this...

I can only assume you will no longer be supporting the Official BI Studio Store as they have the right to remove your access for any or no reason. You wouldn't want to be a hypocrite, would you?

Well if thats the case I will not use the BI store anymore. There is also no need. I've bought all the DLCs for Arma 2 and have them on disc/harddrive and after I'm not going to buy Arma 3 the BI store is obsolete for me.

[Tonci87 163]

How about all people sceptical about steam try the Alpha lite on it?

I´m not a big fan of it either, but it isn´t as bad as some people say.

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

Is there any official statement to that claim cause what Ive heard is that multiple accounts are not allowed.

https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=8963-EIKC-3767

Can I use multiple Steam accounts on one computer?

Yes, you can access different Steam accounts from one computer. However, you may only access one account at a time.

The accounts will share the core files for any games the accounts have in common, but each account will maintain its own custom content and configuration files.

Issue resolved I take it? No similar business will refuse you to open multiple accounts.

[T.S.C.Plage 0]

I cant even believe that those Terms are still legal in Europe.

They aren't! That's why the Verbraucherzentrale responsible for consumer protection here in Germany gave them a warning to comply with our laws which Steam ignored. Now they'll take them to court which in the worst case can mean a ban of Steam and it's services in Germany if they don't comply. I don't see that happen but it's at least a possibility.

[Steiner34 12]

https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=8963-EIKC-3767

Issue resolved I take it? No similar business will refuse you to open multiple accounts.

Well I guess I was wrong on that matter but still it wont solve the problem that I'm not willing to bind a payed game to an online account.

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

Well I guess I was wrong on that matter

That's alright, I'll wait for another urban legend to come up in the meantime.