ArmA 3 on Steamworks?

[harlon 1]

This is great news, can't wait for the improved server browser. :bounce3: Valves server browser is pretty much the greatest I have seen. BF3 browser is also excellent, I hated it at first but it grew on me. GoG is not really a good alternative, they don't have a developer tool kit like steamworks. I'd imagine building those things yourself could take quite some time and be expensive which is something they clearly do not want. I'm sure they will still sell keys on their own store for those who don't want to give Valve that 30% cut. Looking forward to the great things BI will bring us in the future.

[enad 11]

At least it might make it a bit more difficult for you to pirate Arma 3 like you did with OA.

LMAO! You actually think I pirated it. It's almost sad that you remember it from so long ago.

I don't pirate games, ever. I'm extremely against it. As you can see I'm not banned, which would be the case if I actually did pirate it. I just used a method to unlock it earlier, I don't remember it but it involved changing your region to Germany(for example).

If you don't believe me I can show you my proof of purchase and whatever else. Nice try, but try again.

You still don't comprehend do you?

Why do you call our arguments 'blind hatred' when many of us pose legitimate points and concerns? I'm sorry I don't love Steam the way you do, yes I have one, yes I use it. But I do not agree with ArmA3 being Steam exclusive and on the workshop. Why can't you just accept the fact that some people don't agree with it and move on?

I'm trying to inform people because 99% of their reasons and excuses can be proven wrong. Unless it's a simple 'I don't want to because I don't want to', it's been proven wrong by many members here.

I'm not sure if I read your post(s) but you're concerned with modding I'll assume? You think people are going to steal your mods or you won't be able to mod because of a Steam exe? Well you're wrong, if you read my post I shot down most of the common excuses for disliking Steam. For the most part it's all ignorance, the most valid reason I've seen yet is a simple "I don't want to use Steam". Fine that's acceptable, you're missing out, but fine. When people bring up all these accusations and supposed faults, well...I need to tell them what's what.

[RavoC 10]

Hmmmm.... let me see, Steam v. Gamespy. Or it might be likened to "A jet airplane" v. "Train" to get across the country.

Enough said.

I do agree with you that this arma 3 news isn't good. But then again, we should be used to bad news nowadays I'm not giving it my energy anymore.:) I would rather see arma 3 with gamespy too though or at least without steam.

[wipman 1]

Hi, i must recognice that Steam is much better than GameSpy; the Good All Games installer triggers my anti-virus, for example... and Steam is known and used for many people, have publicity inserted and offers, so as free propaganda works too, so is a good method of get new players/customers. But still i preffer the physical copy, a built in MP browser and let the social things for those who like it, eaqualy than the propaganda/offers that i don't ask for, have to update not only the game but also the client filter (Steam in this case) in order to play and putting another possible malfuction source in the middle; but any way... any complain or reject is late now, it's an official decission that you can take or not; if you want to play... you've to have an IN connection & steam yes or yes, without IN connection... you can't play to the game and that's what im really againist of. Let's C ya

[rehtus777 10]

I do agree with you that this arma 3 news isn't good. But then again, we should be used to bad news nowadays I'm not giving it my energy anymore.:) I would rather see arma 3 with gamespy too though or at least without steam.

You got it backwards with what I'm saying..... I'm saying "Steam" is the Gold Standard and "Gamespy" is archaic.

[kualus 1]

I'm trying to inform people because 99% of their reasons and excuses can be proven wrong. Unless it's a simple 'I don't want to because I don't want to', it's been proven wrong by many members here.

I'm not sure if I read your post(s) but you're concerned with modding I'll assume? You think people are going to steal your mods or you won't be able to mod because of a Steam exe? Well you're wrong, if you read my post I shot down most of the common excuses for disliking Steam. For the most part it's all ignorance, the most valid reason I've seen yet is a simple "I don't want to use Steam". Fine that's acceptable, you're missing out, but fine. When people bring up all these accusations and supposed faults, well...I need to tell them what's what.

Do us all a favor, and quit stirring up the topic. We don't want Steam for a number of reasons, including those which have not been refuted by dubious means. I said I wouldn't mention my reasons for boycotting Valve, but now I feel the need to mention them: Valve's philosophy of trading freedom for convenience, their effort to make Steam a monopoly and thus Gabe's anti-competitive anti-Windows 8 mind poisoning when Windows 8's App Store threatened said effort, ease of stealing other's work on Steamworks, Valve resting on its laurels showcased by turning Half Life 3 into the new Duke Nukem Forever and not releasing a new original IP in years, ...

[RavoC 10]

You got it backwards with what I'm saying..... I'm saying "Steam" is the Gold Standard and "Gamespy" is archaic.

Well I'm not saying Steam is bad either, it's both the same thing either way.. I can understand (including myself) have more problems from steam then ease of use. Then again I can't see why a lot of people say steam is all out bad cause I know for a fact nothing changes only a bigger platform (UI).

[Hicks_09 10]

Just responding to this point: the devblog basically said that the CEO of BI decided "not releasing in 2013 is worse than Steamworks" and that "take as long as needed to not have Steam" was not acceptable.

---------- Post added at 03:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:35 PM ----------

Also, it basically implied that Maruk is the one pressuring them to release in 2013, not outside fans, so I think "risk of not meeting 2013“ was an euphemism for "without Steamworks, a very real chance of simply canceling Arma 3"...

This is what gets me. Steamworks is not a magic wand that will make maps, code ai or create art assets to hit a release window. It won't do QA either.

If this is an issue of Multiplayer matchmaking requiring a client - with the issues surrounding gamespy coming to an end then I can understand them wanting a Multiplayer service. If it's about piracy then they're going to maybe stem release date piracy. After that however they're barking up the wrong tree with Steamworks, drm just doesn't work and can actually incite people to try and crack it for the challenge. Dark Messiah managed to have its multiplayer handled by steam while managing to keep its singleplayer independent of requiring a client. So it can be done.

If this is an exclusivity deal then BIS need to come clean and take the spanking they're due.

If it is concerns related to financial pressures on releasing Arma 3 as soon as possible then yes distributing via Steam will get them a wide audience. If it's audience saturation they want then why not sell across Origin, Uplay, Gamersgate, Sprocket, Gog and who knows how many other services - reach as many customers as possible. How exactly does shackling a game to a third party drm get it made any faster?

[enad 11]

Hi, i must recognice that Steam is much better than GameSpy; the Good All Games installer triggers my anti-virus, for example... and Steam is known and used for many people, have publicity inserted and offers, so as free propaganda works too, so is a good method of get new players/customers. But still i preffer the physical copy, a built in MP browser and let the social things for those who like it, eaqualy than the propaganda/offers that i don't ask for, have to update not only the game but also the client filter (Steam in this case) in order to play and putting another possible malfuction source in the middle; but any way... any complain or reject is late now, it's an official decission that you can take or not; if you want to play... you've to have an IN connection & steam yes or yes, without IN connection... you can't play to the game and that's what im really againist of. Let's C ya

Wipman...Much of what you're saying is wrong. You CAN still buy a physical copy, ArmA 3 WILL still have an ingame MP browser, You DON'T need to update Steam just to update the game(if I read correctly), you DON'T need an online connection to play ArmA 3 solo(online requires internet whether you were on Steam or not).

I hope this alleviated some of your fears. Trust me, there's nothing Steam does that will impede your game experience, it only makes it better.

[Binkowski 25]

I'm trying to inform people because 99% of their reasons and excuses can be proven wrong. Unless it's a simple 'I don't want to because I don't want to', it's been proven wrong by many members here.

I'm not sure if I read your post(s) but you're concerned with modding I'll assume? You think people are going to steal your mods or you won't be able to mod because of a Steam exe? Well you're wrong, if you read my post I shot down most of the common excuses for disliking Steam. For the most part it's all ignorance, the most valid reason I've seen yet is a simple "I don't want to use Steam". Fine that's acceptable, you're missing out, but fine. When people bring up all these accusations and supposed faults, well...I need to tell them what's what.

No, I never stated that. My problem exists in the Steamworkshop. Not Steam. I don't give a damn about Steam, it's the workshop that I have a problem with. It isn't properly moderated and such as we have here on the forums, armaholic, etc. Let's say I release an addon on the BI forums and armaholic mirrors it. Somebody downloads it, then decides "oh I have an idea, let's put it on the steamworkshop!" and they do. But without asking my permission, or crediting me. Instead releasing it on the steamworkshop under their name and claiming that they made the work, when they didn't. According to other peoples experience with Skyrim mods they had this issue. And Valve will not remove them and what not because they must not give a damn.

That is my problem. We already have an issue with people taking other peoples work and claiming it as their own here, but you don't hear about it very much because we are very strict and have good moderators here (some of you might think they're assholes but they really aren't). And that keeps everything in check. Sure something might slip through the cracks a few times, but we find it eventually. Especially if it's posted on a major site like armaholic, arma2base.de etc.

So in conclusion, when someone takes their free time to make an addon for the communities enjoyment (and remember, they do it FOR FREE) and somebody just decides "oh I'm going to take it and publish it on the steamworkshop under my name" and taking credit for other peoples work? That's just wrong.

[jefferspang 2]

There is NOTHING Steam will impede or destroy. It promotes modding so don't worry about no more mods. Valve isn't going to take your mods and sell them, that's just being paranoid and it won't happen. They're also strict with people taking others work, and besides the same could be done without Steam. If you have a mod on Armaholic I can DL it, re-release it with my own name anywhere else. Steam doesn't 'promote' that at all.

This was posted elsewhere and can anyone see the blatant disregard to the author's right? THIS is not the kind of modding community I would like to see promoted and since the Workshop moderators don't seem to care much about it and you'll see a decline in the quality of mods. I have spoken to a few addon makers (whom I'll keep anonymous in their interest) said that stealing and claiming others work is the number 1 reason why all motivation is lost and why they are probably going to leave the ArmA addon scene. The problem with your theory is that since Armaholic is THE premier addon hub at the moment, it's unlikely that addons stolen from Armaholic and posted elsewhere wouldn't gather much as much attention as stolen work in Steam Workshop (which would become the premier hub since it's more accessible). If the "BENEFIT" to the addon community is more COD4 Ripped/L4D/GTA ripped cars/weapons and less creative and unique mods then I want no part in this.

Steam only brings BENEFITS to the game and community. You don't have to be online to play in the editor or SP scenarios. Of course MP requires internet but it would too without Steam. Learn to use Steam Offline mode.

Ok lets compare Steam and standalone shall we?

Standalone

- No internet connection

- Run the .exe, choose singleplayer

- Finish

Steam

- No internet connection

- Run Steam, login (which would be impossible but lets say for argument sake that a miracle occured and you've managed to logged in)

- Choose offline mode

- Wait for Steam to restart in off-line mod

- Finish

So in order to play off-line, you would need an initial internet connection. I remember back in my Steam days, I was in an English boarding school without personal internet so I had to rely on an internet USB dongle which by the way was quite expensive but nontheless I had to log in to Steam, and once I logged in they automatically started updating my GMod, I tried to cancel it and launch the game but they insisted that the update must finish. Which was fine, I let the update finish and then relaunched Steam in offline mode and when I click on the play button, suddenly I was met by this smack in the face (and by that I meant a pop-up saying I am unable to play this game or Counter Strike in off-line mode). That was pretty much the tipping point.

All Steam does is bring greater convenience to the user. Those who don't have it, download it and see for yourself. You don't NEED to be stuck in the 90's anymore. Those who hate it, well I haven't seen any valid reasons that haven't been proven wrong yet. It's so ridiculous the amount of ignorant people(I'm really not trying to insult anyone but everyone is so clueless on this subject!) here. Take off the tin foil hats, Steam isn't here to STEAL YOUR MONEY or IMPLANT A VIRUS ON YOUR PC. It's been around for years and is a proven service that holds MANY benefits for ArmA 3 and any other game taking advantage of it.

I have used Steam in the past for Counter Strike and Gmod and it sucked. It's ironic you call us ignorant yet it looks like you haven't even had a look at our reasonings before you wrote that rebuttal. Stop trying to blow our arguments to absurd proportions (since when did we mention that we're afraid Steam will defraud us or implant a virus?). Stop calling us the tin foil hat, I believe my opinions are reasonable.

[Nicholas 5]

No, I never stated that. My problem exists in the Steamworkshop. Not Steam. I don't give a damn about Steam, it's the workshop that I have a problem with. It isn't properly moderated and such as we have here on the forums, armaholic, etc. Let's say I release an addon on the BI forums and armaholic mirrors it. Somebody downloads it, then decides "oh I have an idea, let's put it on the steamworkshop!" and they do. But without asking my permission, or crediting me. Instead releasing it on the steamworkshop under their name and claiming that they made the work, when they didn't. According to other peoples experience with Skyrim mods they had this issue. And Valve will not remove them and what not because they must not give a damn.

That is my problem. We already have an issue with people taking other peoples work and claiming it as their own here, but you don't hear about it very much because we are very strict and have good moderators here (some of you might think they're assholes but they really aren't). And that keeps everything in check. Sure something might slip through the cracks a few times, but we find it eventually. Especially if it's posted on a major site like armaholic, arma2base.de etc.

So in conclusion, when someone takes their free time to make an addon for the communities enjoyment (and remember, they do it FOR FREE) and somebody just decides "oh I'm going to take it and publish it on the steamworkshop under my name" and taking credit for other peoples work? That's just wrong.

Have they announced that they will be using Steam Workshop?

[^Th0mas^ 10]

I hate Steam. Once a game requires a online code or Steam in order to function, you dont own the game in any way. You are only renting a license from BIS to play the game. The day Steam shuts down somewhere in the future you are left pissing in the wind. You pay full price for the game, but you are unable to do as you please with it. You cant sell it, rent it, or give it away. You DONT own the game. This is why online registration and Steam pisses me off. It takes away your`e freedom and right as a consumer. When I buy something, I expect to own the product. The best thing I can do is talk with my wallet, and now I really need to consider if I should buy this game or not. End of story. I really hope you consider this as well.

Edited February 22, 2013 by ^Th0mas^

[RavoC 10]

I hate Steam. Once a game requires a online code or Steam in order to function, you dont own the game in any way. You are only renting a license from BIS to play the game. The day Steam shuts down somewhere in the future you are left pissing in the wind. You pay full price for the game, but you are unable to do as you please with it. You cant sell it, rent it, or give it away. You DONT own the game. This is why online registration and Steam pisses me off. It takes away your`e freedom and right as a consumer. When I buy something, I expect to own the product. The best thing I can do is talk with my wallet, and now I really need to consider if I should buy this game or not. End of story. I really hope you consider this as well.

+1

Another question I had is that since GameSpy is going down what about Arma 2 server list etc, will you guys convert it and still support it or will the server list go down?

[rehtus777 10]

I hate Steam. What people dont understand is that a game that requires Steam or any other online activation code isn`t owned by the gamer in any way. You are renting a license from BIS to play ArmA III thats it. You dont own the game in any way. This pisses me off. When you pay full price for a product, you should be able to trade, sell and give it away to someone else as you please, but no. The publishers doesnt allow you to. So now I have to consider if I want to support this game or not. Its pretty sad.

If your internet craps out or gets cut off because of funds, you can still play the single player 24 x 7 to your hearts content. You still have all the one's and zero's on your computer. It's yours and Steam can't erase it.

BTW, were you really going to sell it anyway? Also, steam slows down hackers and thief's.

One side note: I bought a boat load of games and simulators during the Christmas sale on steam for myself / kids and the games were dirt cheap. At one time, they had FarCry 3 on sale for $29.99 (originally $49.99) and it was a new game - only a few weeks old.

[Masharra 10]

Wondering if this has anything to do with it. http://pc.gamespy.com/articles/122/1227460p1.html

Gamespy shutting down?

looks like im late.

Edited February 22, 2013 by Masharra

[Zyromkiru 10]

This was posted elsewhere and can anyone see the blatant disregard to the author's right? THIS is not the kind of modding community I would like to see promoted and since the Workshop moderators don't seem to care much about it and you'll see a decline in the quality of mods. I have spoken to a few addon makers (whom I'll keep anonymous in their interest) said that stealing and claiming others work is the number 1 reason why all motivation is lost and why they are probably going to leave the ArmA addon scene. The problem with your theory is that since Armaholic is THE premier addon hub at the moment, it's unlikely that addons stolen from Armaholic and posted elsewhere wouldn't gather much as much attention as stolen work in Steam Workshop (which would become the premier hub since it's more accessible). If the "BENEFIT" to the addon community is more COD4 Ripped/L4D/GTA ripped cars/weapons and less creative and unique mods then I want no part in this.

Ok lets compare Steam and standalone shall we?

Standalone

- No internet connection

- Run the .exe, choose singleplayer

- Finish

Steam

- No internet connection

- Run Steam, login (which would be impossible but lets say for argument sake that a miracle occured and you've managed to logged in)

- Choose offline mode

- Wait for Steam to restart in off-line mod

- Finish

So in order to play off-line, you would need an initial internet connection. I remember back in my Steam days, I was in an English boarding school without personal internet so I had to rely on an internet USB dongle which by the way was quite expensive but nontheless I had to log in to Steam, and once I logged in they automatically started updating my GMod, I tried to cancel it and launch the game but they insisted that the update must finish. Which was fine, I let the update finish and then relaunched Steam in offline mode and when I click on the play button, suddenly I was met by this smack in the face (and by that I meant a pop-up saying I am unable to play this game or Counter Strike in off-line mode). That was pretty much the tipping point.

I have used Steam in the past for Counter Strike and Gmod and it sucked. It's ironic you call us ignorant yet it looks like you haven't even had a look at our reasonings before you wrote that rebuttal. Stop trying to blow our arguments to absurd proportions (since when did we mention that we're afraid Steam will defraud us or implant a virus?). Stop calling us the tin foil hat, I believe my opinions are reasonable.

These days if you don't have internet then why are you playing on a computer? Secondly... look at this.. Kinda solves not wanting updates?

[dunedain 48]

It's a valid point ^Th0mas^. However if you think you may want to give it away or just share your account in the future you can just create a Steam account dedicated to Arma3. Even without Steam you couldn't sell it to people who don't trust you 100%, as it is easy to just sell a game and keep the key to play online. With Steam you can still sell the account which has Arma3 linked to it, knowing you'ld be violating Steam ToS.

Edited February 22, 2013 by dunedain

[Steiner34 12]

+1

Another question I had is that since GameSpy is going down what about Arma 2 server list etc, will you guys convert it and still support it or will the server list go down?

Well I guess they have to patch in another serverbrowserservice otherwise Arma2 onlineplaying would be doomed. The only way to work around would be a direct connect to server which would mean a lot of advertisements on forums/websites and of course the willingness of the players to go that way.

[^Th0mas^ 10]

I really hate that the marked goes all digital. It`s been said that ArmA III still will ship on physical media, but I might as well throw the disc in the trash once the game is installed and used. I dont like that idea. I want my games to have a future in my collection when I buy them. Steam has ruined this.

[Steiner34 12]

I really hate that the marked goes all digital. It`s been said that ArmA III still will ship on physical media, but I might as well throw the disc in the trash once the game is installed and used. I dont like that idea. I want my games to have a future in my collection when I buy them. Steam has ruined this.

+1

Well for me Arma 2 will be the last game I've bought from BI if they are going to continue with this policy. Im not willing not give up my essentials freedoms as a customer just to be bullied in this malicious steam network.

[dunedain 48]

It was the natural turn for the PC gaming market with the widespread of high-speed internet. Valve jumped on the boat early and greatly benefited from it. It would have happened anyway. I'm just glad it isn't a public company ruled by greedy shareholders such as Ubi, Activision or EA at the head of Steam.

Edited February 22, 2013 by dunedain

[Zyromkiru 10]

I hate Steam. Once a game requires a online code or Steam in order to function, you dont own the game in any way. You are only renting a license from BIS to play the game. The day Steam shuts down somewhere in the future you are left pissing in the wind. You pay full price for the game, but you are unable to do as you please with it. You cant sell it, rent it, or give it away. You DONT own the game. This is why online registration and Steam pisses me off. It takes away your`e freedom and right as a consumer. When I buy something, I expect to own the product. The best thing I can do is talk with my wallet, and now I really need to consider if I should buy this game or not. End of story. I really hope you consider this as well.

By the time steam would shut down, you'd never have nay intention of playing this game by then. If you have a disk it can break and you now need to re-buy the game in order to play again if anything happens to your computer files, selling it... come on now you know for a fact games these days are going away from the whole (give your game away/let other barrow). Look at the positive! In the case of having steam this couldnt and wouldn't happen as your game can ALWAYS be downloaded again and with the cloud storage you can always have your saved data as well. Also steam is the one that is actually going toward the gaming community and following it as you all know windows is going down the crapper and they are making support for linux now which we all know may be the future OS with how things are looking.

Steams not going anywhere and with it's popularity this game will only grow. Some people on here might not play because of this but I assure you everyone will be replaced in a matter of seconds once this game appears as purchasable.

It was the natural turn for the PC gaming market with the widespread of highspeed internet. Valve jumped on the boat early and greatly benefited from it, it would have happened anyway. I'm just glad it isn't a public company such as Ubi, Activision or EA at the head of Steam.

+1

Very true

[kualus 1]

I'm just glad it isn't a public company such as Ubi, Activision or EA at the head of Steam.

So you're glad that Steam is in the hands of those who are determined to make it a monopoly while resting on their laurels? I smell Valve fanboyism in this topic, again.

[-Snafu- 77]

Or not... Competition has never been that high between digital retailers,

Steam has a huge share of the digital distribution market, the idea that they don't compete is strange. It's capitalism 101. Origin wouldn't exist otherwise.

and never games were that cheap on PC.

Games are always cheaper from even brick and mortar stores than Steam. Especially cheaper from online retailers like Play or Amazon.

Being redeemable on Steam or using steamworks doesn't mean the game has to be bought on the Steam store, actually I buy most of my games from other shops and then use the key on Steam. It's more convenient that way.

Steam will get a share as I very much doubt they'd be happy giving other places keys to sell without seeing anything in return.

That other digital retailers now have to sell Steam keys just shouts problem to me.

By what logic is this killing competition exactly? If competition is lacking it's only in the way that there are no serious challengers to Steamworks, only equivalent is Origin and it sucks ass, EA can't even make an ingame chat UI that doesn't freeze your computer for 10s when you try to resize it...

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-08-30-steam-vs-origin-is-competition-good-for-gamers-article

But however good it is at what it does, healthy competition is vital. Not only because it drives innovation, keeps prices down and helps grow the PC market, but also because a Steam-only future might not be the level-headed utopia we'd all like to imagine.

"Any monopoly is dangerous," insists Lovell. "It's all well and good we think Steam are the good guys today, but Google used to be the good guys. They used to be the upstarts, and now we're all a bit afraid of them. The good guys, once they get into power, can become the not-so-good guys.

"Any time somebody can stifle what comes to market by their choices, it's an issue. If - and I'm not saying this is happening yet - Steam goes, 'I don't like your game', then it can just stop an indie from getting their game into a meaningful marketplace."

Regarding the last paragraph, this has already happened. Steam turned down a wargame by a couple of indie devs and if they hadn't been able to sell it on their site we wouldn't have the gem that is Unity of Command. Only later when it established itself did Steam relent.

LMAO! You actually think I pirated it. It's almost sad that you remember it from so long ago.

I don't pirate games, ever. I'm extremely against it. As you can see I'm not banned, which would be the case if I actually did pirate it. I just used a method to unlock it earlier, I don't remember it but it involved changing your region to Germany(for example).

If you don't believe me I can show you my proof of purchase and whatever else. Nice try, but try again.

What's sad is refusing to accept that your opinion is not the be all and end all.

Edited February 22, 2013 by Snafu