ArmA 3 on Steamworks?

[Alex72 1]

And LAN is a connection between computers and not to the internet. We can only wait and see how it will be handled.

[AstroMan 10]

I once bought a hard copy of a game that required steam to play, steam just starts downloading anyway. Had to jump through hoops to stop it downloading and just install from the disk. My disk for Red orchestra 2 is a complete waste of space now because I can't get it to install from the disk at all anymore.

Others may not have this problem, but way should this even be a problem, it doesn't make sense.

When you buy a hard copy you're pretty much just buying an activation code with a fancy box.

[spooky lynx 73]

Steam exclusive. You have got to be kidding. FPDR. Why force things into a cluster **** with this garbage program? Is it that hard for people to go buy a hard copy? I mean, damn, atleast give us the option, just like now, to use steam or not. This is terrible. I've never actually had to think weather or not I was going to buy the next in the series... until now :(

x2. Now I'm not sure if ArmA 3 will be on my PC. I'm running Steam only because it's the only legal way to play HL series, but I'm not so sure about ArmA 3 coolness to bother myself with that Shi... oh, Steam once again.

Basically the first time you run steam for the game you MUST have access to the internet and then you can turn it onto offline mode. Steam is actually very convenient if you give it a try and i used to dislike it 2 years ago but now I use it constantly.

Sometimes games can't run without updates, and so does Steam itself. No matter of turned off auto update I had to download some unknown stuff for HL2 and episodes some time ago (when they were patched). Steam itself downloads its updates too, without my permission.

[SWAT_BigBear 0]

Steam itself downloads its updates too, without my permission.

Interesting, but are you positive you didn't click an "Accept" button at some point of the install?

[zonker3210 1]

People do realize that you can still buy a DVD copy and install it? There is no need to download anything from Steam except patches...

This is true....as far as it goes. A few points you seem to be overlooking:

1. Some people don't want the Steam client at all.
   
2. Let's assume, as you suggest, that an Arma fan buys the DVD version and only uses Steam for the initial activation and subsequent game patches. Great. Except they cannot play MP unless Steam client is up-to-date and running.
   

[rehtus777 10]

I'm willing to bet that 90% of those that say they will not 'buy' or 'play' the simulator will eventually buy the simulator. ArmA 3 is going to be incredible. I'm sure the Alpha will be released soon and when people see how sweet it is they are going to want to buy the game. Also, it's healthy for BIS to hear that we have concerns, it keeps them on the 'straight and narrow' (we hope).

What we need to be vigilant about is to make sure BIS doesn't go down the road that DICE went down.

[iceman77 18]

I'll add, though, that Steamworks modding system may actually increase mod downloads, as they will be easier to find, install, and keep up to date. This should help the modding community.

Uhh... that's what places like armaholic are for? How have mods ever been any trouble to find? You can go to armaholic once a day and check for any new mods.. newly released mods are displayed on the home page. OR..you can come here to the forums and see. I don't understand why steam is all of the sudden needed to "make mods easier to find"... that's nonsense. If anything, it's just an extra utility to deal with. Steam is soooooo redundant. period.

[mr. bravo 17]

*This will be bad for the modder/addon makers.

>To me, this is non-sense, ArmA II does not support the Steam Workshop yet, so it would make no difference than a normal one, and if Arma III does, I will explain using TES:V Skyrim, you download the mod in the workshop and a mod launcher is included as part of the game (which A II already does). So only difference will be where addon makers will upload their content.

No. As a modder in both Skyrim and Arma, I'll once again explain to you what's actually happening behind your pretty download button.

The problem is about people stealing others work and even re-uploading complete mods without permissions and often even taking credit for it. The support on Workshop isn't strict and serious enough to deal with this actively, but instead the original authors will have to waste their time on dealing with the support, which can take weeks to delete any stolen work, and often not even punishing the thief. On modding-communities like this such users would be blacklisted in an instant.

I've had my Nexus exclusive Skyrim mods uploaded by random people without permission on Workshop several times this past year, and it wouldn't surprise me if it's up there again since I've grown tired of that shit. Many other authors have completely left the community and deleted their mods because of this, and that's never a good thing. I know many authors here are very sensitive about that kind of stuff as well. Workshop is a poorly structured place with no sense of respect for mod authors and their work. It doesn't deserve to be available in Arma.

Is it not easy to steal someones work and upload it somewhere else already without steamworks?

There must be possible for BIS to work out a deal with Valve to bring over some of the BIS-forum admins/armaholic crew or BIS employees to help monitor the steamworks uploads if content theft is a major problem and Valve does nothing about it?

Sure it can always be done more secretly. But if any respected community finds out about it you'll most probably get banned. The frustrating thing about Workshop is that it's practically being done as publicly as it can be. People not even trying to hide it. You can check the frontpage and see a picture of a weapon model you know is yours, and see another person taking full credit for it. You contact the uploader and tell him to take it down, they tell you to f**k off. You contact support about it and they ask you to explain the situation 5 times, with atleast 3 days between responses. That's how a kick in the balls through internet feels like.

Edited February 22, 2013 by Mr. Bravo

[spooky lynx 73]

Interesting, but are you positive you didn't click an "Accept" button at some point of the install?

At what point do you mean?

[iceman77 18]

I'm willing to bet that 90% of those that say they will not 'buy' or 'play' the simulator will eventually buy the simulator. ArmA 3 is going to be incredible. I'm sure the Alpha will be released soon and when people see how sweet it is they are going to want to buy the game. Also, it's healthy for BIS to hear that we have concerns, it keeps them on the 'straight and narrow' (we hope).

I would never play an alpha to gauge a games quality. Also, there's no need for me to "see how sweet it is". I've been around since the second year of this series (~02). So i already know what to expect. As usual from title to title. This is the first time I've ever been let down by BIS... this steam business. And if you think for one second, that a veteran of the series, or anyone for that matter, will not deny the game because of steam, then that's false. I hope to not be here when this franchise makes the turn for the worst. Maybe in arma4, you guys will be so lucky to have a jump key /sarcasm off

[LeeManatee 4]

i sincirely hope devs will change their mind or there will be assigned moderators on workshop arma section consisted of armaholic armedassault.info and possible other communities to keep it controlled

[tonygrunt 10]

Interesting, but are you positive you didn't click an "Accept" button at some point of the install?

Just installed a game on steam for test, it never asks you about updates, the default is automatic updates. If you don't want updates, you have to disable it in properties.

[chortles 263]

I hope to not be here when this franchise makes the turn for the worst. Maybe in arma4, you guys will be so lucky to have a jump key /sarcasm off

According to what antoineflemming has pointed out about that devblog... you missed the "get out of this franchise before it turns for the worse" window months ago, when whatever it was went down. I'm not surprised that the project lead did not elaborate, but "two months to inventory the state of Arma 3 development and come up with a solution" is more perturbing to me than Steamworks. :(

[tremanarch 6]

I like the changes. I see the positive new possibilities like Patches now finally easy and all people ahave the same patch level. Multipalyer will be easier to consolidate. I guess it will also bring more people into arma (Steam also means advertising).

And I like the workshop . even if I didint use it for Skyrim - but it was there - so the mainstream players recognized modding.

I would be interested in negative points, cause at the moment I dont see any, at least for me. I dont want to sell this game in anytime, and I have no problem that I have no real media... So is there something else negative about steam itself?

[DeclaredEvol 10]

I look at it like this, Steam means a HUGE Community of modding :)

[Maxzy 12]

I believe that a bunch of other people already answered "yes" in other threads?

A bunch of people alrady explained that there are some games which allow lan multiplayer in offline mode. But what gets me worried is this:

"It will be possible to run Steam in Offline mode, and still play the game (with the exception of online services obviously, including multiplayer itself)."

...though I must ask, did you have the problem of "crappy internet" preventing you from activating, or preventing you from going into offline mode, or what?

It seems that activation is so quick that if that was a problem, I'd be surprised that you could stay connected to the Internet long enough to be posting here.

First it downloaded somewhat 120MB of what I assume was steam update. And then it just stopped at "verification" or "authentification" or whatever. Then I got disconnection. Then I started it again and it stopped at the same point. And again and again for 4 hours of this shit. So... GRRRRR :mad:

[AstroMan 10]

i sincirely hope devs will change their mind or there will be assigned moderators on workshop arma section consisted of armaholic armedassault.info and possible other communities to keep it controlled

But why should moderators from already established sites, that run them with there own money and time, who are already keeping order on there own site, have to work a double shift and look after the workshop as well, without expected anything in return?

[rehtus777 10]

I would never play an alpha to gauge a games quality. Also, there's no need for me to "see how sweet it is". I've been around since the second year of this series (~02). So i already know what to expect. As usual from title to title. This is the first time I've ever been let down by BIS... this steam business. And if you think for one second, that a veteran of the series, or anyone for that matter, will not deny the game because of steam, then that's false. I hope to not be here when this franchise makes the turn for the worst. Maybe in arma4, you guys will be so lucky to have a jump key /sarcasm off

I'm not buying your argument (no offense). Since you've been playing for 11 years, I don't see you quitting for this reason. Now, if BIS decided to get rid of the editor / mod's (like DICE did with BF3) then I can see you giving up the simulator - but for now, I consider the "Steam" situation a minor hic-up. This incident is not worth throwing away the ArmA series. Heck, you haven't even seen the final product yet - you should reserve judgement until then.

As for the Alpha, I think you will get an accurate taste of what is to come with Altis. Just watching the E3 / Gamescom video's, the simulator looks "boss" and the AI are behaving very well.

[SWAT_BigBear 0]

Just installed a game on steam for test, it never asks you about updates, the default is automatic updates. If you don't want updates, you have to disable it in properties.

I was refering to the actual Steam itself install, but thanks for the info, I'll find that option when I get A3/Steam.

Edited February 22, 2013 by SWAT_BigBear

[iceman77 18]

Steam. It's redundant. Period.

Edited February 23, 2013 by Iceman77

[spooky lynx 73]

I like the changes. I see the positive new possibilities like Patches now finally easy and all people ahave the same patch level. Multipalyer will be easier to consolidate. I guess it will also bring more people into arma (Steam also means advertising).

And I like the workshop . even if I didint use it for Skyrim - but it was there - so the mainstream players recognized modding.

I would be interested in negative points, cause at the moment I dont see any, at least for me. I dont want to sell this game in anytime, and I have no problem that I have no real media... So is there something else negative about steam itself?

Do I not understand something or is it really not a problem to play on servers with your versions of game only or download the patch you need at any time you want and then click a couple of buttons and install it (and then to play again)? I thought that it is not a problem at all for every human being of at least 14 y.o. with average IQ. Then, BIS has not so crystal-clean update records and some patches bring more problems than clean bugs. So what will you do with that fancy auto-update? Now I prefer to read some reports about patches, both stable and beta and only after this install them or stay at current game version to prevent complete re-installation because of some craeppy patch.

Oh, and I don't want another resource-hungry soft running together with the game. Especially when the game itself is far from being resource-friendly.

[sapped 10]

There specifically is a hard copy option, just like a bunch of games such as the Total War: SHOGUN 2 duology (original and Fall of the Samurai).

Now that you've mentioned it, people with the original game couldn't even play it without installing some huge 30GB patch forced upon by steam,

want patching freedom? You're not gonna get it.

Just installing the game for the first time? Too bad, you can just throw your store bought game disc out the window since you will be downloading

the whole 30GB+ game from steam all over again. Check Total War forums if you don't believe this.

Can't believe people still want to work with crapware like this with their game, I personally will NEVER buy a steam exclusive game unless its under $15

which justifies its glorified rental price.

[tonygrunt 10]

I was refering to the actual Steam itself install, but thanks for the info, I'll find that option when I get A3/Steam.

Steam client updates come 2 ways:

- you might get an update(critical?) when you try to login to steam, no way to stop it except task manager or pull out the internet cord :) .

- updates while you are logged in or after you login, it will download in the background and ask you to restart. You can stay in steam with that pending update till you restart steam or your pc.

[nes4day 2]

No. As a modder in both Skyrim and Arma, I'll once again explain to you what's actually happening behind your pretty download button.

The problem is about people stealing others work and even re-uploading complete mods without permissions and often even taking credit for it. The support on Workshop isn't strict and serious enough to deal with this actively, but instead the original authors will have to waste their time on dealing with the support, which can take weeks to delete any stolen work, and often not even punishing the thief. On modding-communities like this such users would be blacklisted in an instant.

I've had my Nexus exclusive Skyrim mods uploaded by random people without permission on Workshop several times this past year, and it wouldn't surprise me if it's up there again since I've grown tired of that shit. Many other authors have completely left the community and deleted their mods because of this, and that's never a good thing. I know many authors here are very sensitive about that kind of stuff as well. Workshop is a poorly structured place with no sense of respect for mod authors and their work. It doesn't deserve to be available in Arma.

I agree with you that Steam lack IP protection and for that, I stand corrected, though I was trying to make the point that having Steam doesn't make mod/distribution anymore difficult.

Steam. It's reundant. Period.

Thus far, you have rebuked every single point with "you don't care", well here's something new for you, by behaving like this, trying to make a point by constant rejection of others, while not making any valid/genuine reasons to support your argument, you're behaving no better than a 12yr old on COD with a microphone. And to think I took time to write a thorough post to clarify things and only have people like you not only ignoring it, yet defacing it at the same time. I will admit that Steam is not perfect, but until you can tell everyone why is it the end of ArmA by using Steam, please keep your ramble off the table.

[chortles 263]

Because unless Arma somehow includes ACE features in release, then vanilla is probably going to suck balls. Vanilla Arma audio sucked, hence JSRS, ACE_SM etc. Vanilla effects suck, hence WarFX.

... "vanilla sucking at release" is a problem that being non-Steam would not solve. :p But the bit about "ACE features" and sounds have already been addressed by devs... even if we have yet to really see what they came up with.

Also interested to see what Shacktak have to say as well.

If you take Dyslecxi's word as speaking for ShackTac, he posted on these forums that he encourages ShackTac to use Steam and that he supports the BI decision to go Steamworks.

I understand the reasons stated but I am concerned about the attitude of: We either release on steam or we don't release in 2013. This seems to indicate to me that there are other problems with this game that goes beyond steamworks or lack there of.

I won't pretend to know for sure (nor do I ever expect a dev or BI company personnel to verify my claim) buuuuuut...

My response to everyone who's saying "push Arma 3 back to 2014 to keep it Steam-free!" is: I think that somewhere along the line something went wrong so badly that when Mr. Land became project lead four months ago, he had to spend half of that just getting a status report and deciding on a solution... I want to emphasize, the Lemnos incident was on top of dev dissatisfaction with the state of Arma 3 development progress, and in tasking the devs with "do all we can to release Arma 3 in 2013", I believe that Maruk decided "we either release in 2013 or not at all", meaning that there would have been no non-Steam version anyway and he would have had fan backlash anyway.

(And yes, I do believe that he noticed how "2013 or bust" would look when DayZ standalone was allowed to slip into 2013, but Arma 3 had already missed more public-progress points than DayZ standalone did.) See what antoineflemming said:

If it takes BIS 2 years to fix ArmA3 and release it, then something worse than Steam exclusivity is the problem. I don't want it taking till 2015 to get ArmA3 out. If it takes that long then there won't be an ArmA3. It'll be cancelled if they are still working on it by 2015. If it takes that long, I'd rather them go ahead and add features that they know work to ArmA2 (like animations and weather and content).

[*]Q20 Will it at some point in the future be possible to consider other distributors as well?

Depends on what you mean -- if it's "just" a Steamworks game and not "digital copies only sold on the Steam storefront", then you would have places such as Green Man Gaming, Amazon and so on able to sell digital download copies as well (read: Steam keys).

[*]Q21 Will I be able to buy a boxed copy of ArmA3?

The dev blog specifically answered that yes you can buy boxed copies of Arma 3.

[*]Q25 Does this mean no 64bit ArmA3?

Back when Dan Musil was project lead the answer was "no, there's no reason for that"... so the question is more "still no 64-bit Arma 3?"

---------- Post added at 02:47 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:09 AM ----------

Basically I only buy games through Steam if I'm either 100% sure I will be keeping them (in this case it's a no-brainer), or if they're massively reduced in price (i.e. on sale), or when I've checked out enough reviews and videos to be sure the game is worth it.

This should be one's video gaming attitude by default. :p Edited February 22, 2013 by Chortles