Anyone else is afraid what ArmA III is going to do to the addons scene?

[Innomadic 10]

Are we all aware that Arma 3 is a long way off still, that we don't know details of its inner workings yet and know nothing about mod conversion?

Chillax guys, get worked up when you find something to really get upset over, like details.

[rip31st 98]

FOW is in the middle of producing a huge mod for ArmA2 - probably the largest in many ways. We will finish what we started. When ArmA3 rolls out, we will adapt it to ArmA3. It will take some work, but no doubt, we will make it work. We look forward to it.

So to answer your question. 'Afraid' -No.

[chortles 263]

why doesn't BIS just put these mods in Arma 3?

Because they'd hurt the modmakers' feelings at being rendered redundant? :p

In all seriousness, some players have voiced elsewhere that the engine seems to hold some of these features back from being possible, and as I've said elsewhere -- better to have these features/potential with the addons starting from scratch, than to be able to port on the addons but the engine continuing to be limited by or for the sake of "legacy mode / backwards compatibility."

Therefore, I'm seconding what wolfbite said:

TO be honest I'm glad if addons have to be totally made from scratch for this... It will hopefully mean major improvements in the engine..

For example, true weapon customization and not "every weapon/accessory combination is its own weapon/class name in the engine."

[Nicholas 5]

I am, I've noticed that the addons keep getting less and less in quantity and quality. OFP had a TON of awesome, fun, and quality addons. ArmA not so many, ArmA 2 not as much as ArmA 1, and ArmA 2 OA not as much as ArmA 2.

BIS is killing the modding community by releasing games with the same schedule Activision uses for COD.

[drmidnight 10]

I am, I've noticed that the addons keep getting less and less in quantity and quality. OFP had a TON of awesome, fun, and quality addons. ArmA not so many, ArmA 2 not as much as ArmA 1, and ArmA 2 OA not as much as ArmA 2.

BIS is killing the modding community by releasing games with the same schedule Activision uses for COD.

I'd say a good 80% of addons that come out these days are quality mods. Sure not on par with the quantity of OFP mods but there is still a lot of great quality mods out and plenty more coming soon.

[Damu 10]

We'd be against ourselves if it is completely incompatible.

We appreciate and welcome all the great stuff from community.

However, we would like to move on...

Our goal is to make porting as much easy as possible.

Of course, feel free to stay in Chernarus/Takistan if you want to. :)

[lozz08 10]

I'll be interested to see how the creation of physics assets for the physx simulation goes. BIS are talking about an overhaul of the animation system. Integration with physics would mean a lot of screwing around to get things looking right in game.

[Big Dawg KS 6]

BIS is killing the modding community by releasing games with the same schedule Activision uses for COD.

BIS is doing what they must. They need money to keep operating, and the way to do that is to sell games. Obviously they aren't going to jeopardize their own business just to give community members more time to make addons. Don't forget that they use that profit to continue adding new features and support the community; which does not financially benefit them.

To compare BIS to Activision is insulting. BIS still tries very hard to support the community and our modding efforts. Having been around this community as long as I have, I can say that BIS is definately not killing the community.

While I agree that the quality has diminished, I know BIS is not at fault. Rather, I blame the community itself. How many mods have I seen fall apart from internal disagreements and lack of interest/time?

[PuFu 4591]

Legislator;1933063']Meaning what?

Meaning that unless you actually do it yourself, you have no way to understand what it takes, even for a port over (which some believe it is so easy to do)

[dalia 13]

We'd be against ourselves if it is completely incompatible.

We appreciate and welcome all the great stuff from community.

However, we would like to move on...

Our goal is to make porting as much easy as possible.

Of course, feel free to stay in Chernarus/Takistan if you want to. :)

Thanks for the answer it's already better, less afraid now you ll kill the modding with games all 2 years.

[[GLT] Legislator 59]

Meaning that unless you actually do it yourself, you have no way to understand what it takes, even for a port over (which some believe it is so easy to do)

Well then you can be relaxed as I understand what time and effort it takes not just to port something but to create something new.

[instagoat 133]

What I hope is that A3 will bring fresh blood into the modding community. Some modders are veterans ranging back into the OFP days, and I completely understand if some of them are tired of having to constantly abandon work and switch over to a new engine.

I think it won´t kill the modding scene per se, but for established mods like P85, CSLA, CWR or I44, it´ll make things difficult. You either have to stick with A2 and hope that people keep the game despite of A3 being out, or you have to use immense resources to port, which I understand now is actually a very difficult job.

So yes, scores of new modders would be nice. Though I dunno if the current generation of gamer even has the nerve and patience to mod a complex game such as Arma.

[zoog 18]

BIS is killing the modding community by releasing games with the same schedule Activision uses for COD.

Why always these kind of BS facts on the internet?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Call_of_duty

CoD/MW games get a new instalment every year (12 months). ArmA 2 was released in the summer of 2009 and ArmA 3 won't be in stores before summer 2012 (maybe even later if it gets delayed). So at leasts a gap of 3 years (36 months). What do you expect from a company that makes games? To just wait for 6 years while bills need to be paid?

3~4 year lifecycle is very very very reasonable.

Edited May 23, 2011 by zoog

[nodunit 397]

That and they aren't killing the modding community, nothing is forcing the community to move to A3 and there was no major movement for A2 until a few patches in.

Aside from necessary documentation and experimentation to make addons compatible with the next game, if anything each game offers more opportunities with the added functions and coding.

[Innomadic 10]

Why always these kind of BS facts on the internet?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Call_of_duty

CoD/MW games get a new instalment every year (12 months). ArmA 2 was released in the summer of 2009 and ArmA 3 won't be in stores before summer 2012 (maybe even later if it gets delayed). So at leasts a gap of 3 years (36 months). What do you expect from a company that makes games? To just wait for 6 years while bills need to be paid?

Theoretically its every 2 years as they alternate between IW and Treyarch....however as they use the same tech everytime (and claim it to be their own) this point is relatively moot.

[dale0404 5]

Everyone must admit that BIS support the modding community, hands down.

But also, its all about the money. Like the man said, stay on Chernarus / Takistan if you want. I certainly will not be deleting OFP / Arma 1 / Arma 2 from my computer when Arma 3 gets released.

[Richey79 10]

It would be really interesting to see the proportion of the following:

- Modders who started on OFP and stayed with the series.

- Modders who started on OFP and have dropped out because of life changes / increasing complexity of Bis' series.

- Modders who started on Armed Assault and stayed with the series.

- Modders who started on Armed Assault and have dropped out because of life changes / increasing complexity of Bis' series ... you get the picture.

What I'm trying to get at is - how healthy is the modding community? Are people starting to mod OA (and making progress quickly enough to keep them at it) in great enough numbers to make up for those long-time modders who have dropped out, and those who will drop out when Arma 3 hits.

Mind you, this isn't really either Bis' concern or something they can do anything (much) about.

[Innomadic 10]

It would be really interesting to see the proportion of the following:

- Modders who started on OFP and stayed with the series.

- Modders who started on OFP and have dropped out because of life changes / increasing complexity of Bis' series.

- Modders who started on Armed Assault and stayed with the series.

- Modders who started on Armed Assault and have dropped out because of life changes / increasing complexity of Bis' series ... you get the picture.

What I'm trying to get at is - how healthy is the modding community? Are people starting to mod OA (and making progress quickly enough to keep them at it) in great enough numbers to make up for those long-time modders who have dropped out, and those who will drop out when Arma 3 hits.

Mind you, this isn't really either Bis' concern or something they can do anything (much) about.

Wouldn't a modder have some degree of acceptance that at some point the game they are working on will be replaced by an improved version? Surely modders can't expect Arma 2 to last for time eternal?

[Callaghan 1]

Some good points in this thread but at the end of the day. ArmA 3 is coming, it offers a more complex engine, and that is where the community will be. The community needs to adapt to the changing situation, like they say you have to go forwards just to stay in the same place.

A good start would be a greater deal of collaboration and less petty competition and 'ownership', i'm not saying the mod community should be a communist regime, and I appreciate that it is one of the closest and most productive mod communities out there, but so many man hours are wasted on 'lesser' mods, pointless addons that we already have 100 different versions of (yes I appreciate that people will make only what they want to), but we would all benefit from mod teams coming together to help each other out. We really don't need more than one ww2 mod based around the western front, people choose the best one, and leave the others for a 'bit of messing around in the editor'. Think about how much better your favourite mod would be if its rivals came together to collaborate on one big project, actually released it on time, and had the manpower to support it after.

At the same time, a bit of healthy competition is always good, but I strongly believe that 90% of the problems of having an increasingly complex engine could be dealt with by the community organising itself a little better.

[[frl]myke 14]

From my point of view, there are a view things BIS is obliged to do to make sure that the modding scene doesn't break away:

- the game has to be as bug free as possible.

- included stuff like modules has to work without problems in SP aswell as in MP

- BIWIKI has to be up to date at release day

About "bugfree":

I know pretty well, absolutely no bugs isn't possible. But that's not the request. Just look back at previous releases how many bugs (even gamebreaking bugs) were present. Only exception was Operation Arrowhead.

Even today, ArmA 2 CO isn't free of serious bugs (just check the CIT). If ArmA 3 will hit the shelves with similar bug density as ArmA 2 had on release, i'm sure a lot of modders/mission makers will just leave frustrated.

About the BIWIKI:

This should really get a high priority. With every new game, things were getting more complex. Back in OFP, things could be figured out by the community in a reasonable timeframe but the more the RV engine evolves, the more features are built in, the more time it takes to figure out how things work.

So IMHO, every developer should spend one hour per week to update/expand/improve the BIWIKI, ideally that at release every technical aspect that could be of any interest for modder/missionmaker is available and up to date. This way, everyone can start right off, not spending countless hours in investigating & researching how things have to be done to work correctly.

And please, no arguments like "hey, this is how it worked back in OFP", this isn't OFP anymore.

[ProfTournesol 956]

Myke;1935346']Back in OFP' date=' things could be figured out by the community in a reasonable timeframe but the more the RV engine evolves, the more features are built in, the more time it takes to figure out how things work.

[/quote']

Myke;1935346']And please' date=' no arguments like "hey, [b']this is how it worked back in OFP[/b]", this isn't OFP anymore.

Hehe ;)

Edited May 23, 2011 by ProfTournesol

[i3luevein 10]

I am actually looking forward to learning ARMA 3 changes to configs and possible new named parts to models.

BI tools 2 at the moment works great for me putting addons into ARMA2. If I need to do any serious model work then I use my own tools that I purchased and import them in to O2.

So personally as people have already mentioned, no I'm not afraid what ArmA III is going to do to the addons scene! I'm looking forward to some kick ass mods that people will continue to make ;)

[PuFu 4591]

i fully agree with Myke on this one. BIKI is, in 99% of the cases updated by members of this very community, and that is when they figure out, the hard way, the way things work. It has nothing to do with A3, but its sort of a direction that BIS seems to be taken.

BIS is aware that the longevity of the game is based on its community, but they haven't helped much with providing the information needed: updated information, as well as some sort of simple samples/proof of work..I know it is low on their priority list, but the community can do as much by themselves before they hit the wall

[Tonmeister 14]

i really think the release of A3 will re-inspire some of the hardcore modders here. i think bis cant really take the risk the community can with mods, there is a higher level of expectation from everyone. but to say modders will become disenfranchised doesn't really sit with me. Whatever is brought to the table will be positive for everyone.

on Pufus note, the level of documentation is atrocious. ffs just employ an eager temp for 3-6mths on a part-time basis to collate it all and put it up

Edited May 23, 2011 by Ebolavirus

[Hoot1988 0]

I used to do bits with the Star Gate mod before I went to uni. It was all getting good before ArmA I was released but all the coding had to be re-written for the new engine. ArmA I passed by with alpha releases until they began to port to ArmA II which has been the same, so I can understand what many have been saying.

OFPs 5 years of life was perfect for the engine, shame we couldn't get 5 years out of ArmA II. Oh well.