Anyone else is afraid what ArmA III is going to do to the addons scene?

[W0lle 1046]

Then, i agree with you, many players take many times for addons and mission, for myself i add many addons in mission for respect the addons maker's works, but for what? for 2 years? it's stupid from BIS, i play since the first day on ofp1, but now maybe you give tools for modding but if it s for make a COD serie and all 2 years give us a buggy games, and when is become no buggy and when we have all a pc for use arma2, you change?

Next arma3 not for me, you now what BIS? wait 2 years more for release arma3 and make a good games, not a games with all times the sames buildings, same trees, same fade colors, it'sz boring after 10 years, we want a NEW games, we are not beta testers. Ah no, you want money for open a new studio again.

I allways supported you, but after the expensive DLC and that, finish for me until you make a real new games. On screen hraphism are just same AO, take a big machines you can take the same screen.

If i buy arma3 because i'm wrong, never i will do another work on it, we loose time, now just play.

What your rant has to do with ArmA3 and Mod developement?

[vasmkd 12]

If bis release mlods for ARMA2 and if portablility isn't going to be a huge issue we would have an awesome situation in ARMA3.

otherwise we just have to move on or continue playing/modding for good old ARMA2 (well call it this when ARMA 3 comes out). It's our choice in the end

[ProfTournesol 956]

technology moves on, thats how its always been and like it or not, people will expect the mods to follow suit. imo the new advancements of Arma III should be seen as an opportunity instead of a threat and a chance to expand the ideas behind the mods to their true potential.

i mean, how many of us desperately wished the OFP40K mod was ported into Arma only to be disappointed when its makers steadfastly refuse so because 'OFP is good enough'.

But it's up to them if they only wanna work for OFP or ArmA 1 or whatever, because it's true that for some modders who want create (or port in this case) whole world as 40K without years and years of work, OFP is easier and good enough. And fun enough, running well and beautifully enough with some twicks on modern systems.

[max power 21]

There's a good point in here about the wh40k mod. They choose to work in their medium that they are familiar with. But, because ArmA2 or 3 has the capability to use the supershader doesn't mean you have to use it, and because their helicopters use 30,000 polies in LOD also doesn't mean you have to model that many... but what is the risk of not pushing all the way to the bar BIS has established? I see a lot of ported OFP models in ArmA 2.

[Beagle 684]

We all know giant mods like during OFP-times cant be done anymore, one single tank for ArmA II takes more effort then 50 addons for Operation Flashpoint, mainly due to the texturing.

Big mods like the Invasion 44 couldnt be released for ArmA, instead got ported for ArmA II, and in all likelyhood will be ported again for ArmA III.

Why should Addon makers bother for ArmA III to even start? The time the mod community starts rolling, the next game is due for release anyway.

Look at the addons that have been released, 90% are ArmA I or even OFP ports, or the infamous "Special Forces Reskins".

Is there any way BIS could steer against that? Release more powerful / easier mod tools?

That's quite normal and you can see this in all genres...Modmakers often cant keep up with the professionals anymore...and a lot of the professionals started as modmakers.

Every modmakers starts at point blank and can't simply keep up with 15 years of experience. Another problem is that mad often cant keep up with a game that's still developed on....

When I as a user see mods going unfunctional or degrading the game functions after a update I start not bothering for mods anymore quite fast.

[ProfTournesol 956]

There's a good point in here about the wh40k mod. They choose to work in their medium that they are familiar with. But, because ArmA2 or 3 has the capability to use the supershader doesn't mean you have to use it, and because their helicopters use 30,000 polies in LOD also doesn't mean you have to model that many... but what is the risk of not pushing all the way to the bar BIS has established? I see a lot of ported OFP models in ArmA 2.

But they'll look ugly. And you're only speaking about vehicles, which are the easiest part with buildings.

[Rasa-be 10]

I feel a bit sorry for all those mod developers that put much time and effort into it. The majority of the community will switch straight away and their work will be either derelict, or they'll have to spend a considerable amound of time and effort into porting them.

As a mod user, I hope that some of A2's key mods make the move swiftly. Take ACRE, which is such an essential gameplay enhancer (so much that I wonder why BIS hasn't just stolen all your work and patched it in), and ACE2 which adds some very good gameplay-enhancing features (The models are cool, but for me it's little things like weapons resting, sight adjustment, the backupsights, the easy ruck system, ballistics that make it into such a great mod (yes even if some of those features have been patched into the game)). These are mods that I would miss when playing a new game.

[rexehuk 16]

I feel a bit sorry for all those mod developers that put much time and effort into it. The majority of the community will switch straight away and their work will be either derelict, or they'll have to spend a considerable amound of time and effort into porting them.

As a mod user, I hope that some of A2's key mods make the move swiftly. Take ACRE, which is such an essential gameplay enhancer (so much that I wonder why BIS hasn't just stolen all your work and patched it in), and ACE2 which adds some very good gameplay-enhancing features (The models are cool, but for me it's little things like weapons resting, sight adjustment, the backupsights, the easy ruck system, ballistics that make it into such a great mod (yes even if some of those features have been patched into the game)). These are mods that I would miss when playing a new game.

You're forgetting that a lot of the stuff like ACRE is not dependant on anything other than itself really, just a case of patching the new game. As long as the SQF commands etc are all there, it will be a very simple port.

Other mods like ACE2 however rely heavily on base classnames etc etc so causes much more trouble for them.

[Altimeter 10]

i mean, how many of us desperately wished the OFP40K mod was ported into Arma only to be disappointed when its makers steadfastly refuse so because 'OFP is good enough'.

I did some addons for the Wh40K mod, and I think they look quite good - in OFP. Then I ported one over in ArmA II, just to check it out - It just didnt fit. Textures were ugly, to few polygons / veritices etc.

[fludblud 10]

I did some addons for the Wh40K mod, and I think they look quite good - in OFP. Then I ported one over in ArmA II, just to check it out - It just didnt fit. Textures were ugly, to few polygons / veritices etc.

well thats the thing, i would rather play a mod that had outdated muddy textures than not being able to play it at all, things like textures could always be updated later. the battlestar galactica mod is half finished and the models for the vipers were straight from OFP but thats still miles better than nothing.

too many modmakers think that moving to a new game requires building it from scratch. it doesnt, porting the main models and gameplay should take priority first, THEN they could begin adding shaders, textures and increasing polygon count. doing that would give the community something to play with earlier and eliminates the horrible possibility that you spend years on a project only to release your masterpiece when a sequel is coming out and nobody would use it.

thanks to the six updater, releasing numerous small updates to a mod is far more easier and fixes tonnes more bugs than releasing one or two humongous updates per year where interest would begin to wane.

Edited May 21, 2011 by fludblud

[[GLT] Legislator 62]

lol wut.

I don't know what you were saying half the time...but..just because ArmA 3 is coming out 3 years after ArmA 2 doesn't mean it's gonna be bad. 3 years is a very good time span for a game, and it's impressive to see BIS push out such a massive game in that time period.

Also the DLCs weren't expensive, if $10 for a large amount of content counts as expensive to you...get a job.

ArmA I was released in 2006, ArmA II in 2009 ... and what did we get? It took at least one more year until ArmA II was "playable", although I agree that might be a very subjective term. However there were a lot of issues even until the release of Operation Arrowhead. In its current state ArmA II is far from being final from my point of view, but at least its playable now so I'm happy I can stick with it for a while.

A few days ago I bought ArmA II Reinforcements and hell ... I couldn't even install it at first due to a bugged installer on the DVD :rolleyes: People can say whatever they want, but I fear the worst for the next game release. Give it at least one more year of developement. 3 years seem to be to few for a game in such a scale. I can feel the shitstorm over me, but everyone should really focus on the first impressions of ArmA II which are really awesome.

Anyway, I hope I'm wrong. This community deserves a perfect game at the release day.

Regarding A2/AO content I wish there would be an "import button". :p I just want to continue playing on Sahrani, Chernarus & Co in ArmA III. I totally accept that old content won't have no features. However the configs could be automaticly rewritten by an installer if previous BIS games are recognized during the installation progress. But at the end I think we will have to wait for CAA2 or something like that.

[rikjuuh 10]

As a mod user, I hope that some of A2's key mods make the move swiftly. Take ACRE, which is such an essential gameplay enhancer (so much that I wonder why BIS hasn't just stolen all your work and patched it in), and ACE2 which adds some very good gameplay-enhancing features (The models are cool, but for me it's little things like weapons resting, sight adjustment, the backupsights, the easy ruck system, ballistics that make it into such a great mod (yes even if some of those features have been patched into the game)). These are mods that I would miss when playing a new game.

why doesn't BIS just put these mods in Arma 3?

[STALKERGB 6]

To be honest, it doesn't bother me. I can't imagine there will be too much extra to add with things like PhysX and what not.

I still remember having my infantry in ARMA2 the day it was released, admittedly they weren't working perfectly but they were in game. (There was the dreaded arm twisting problem with the new anims). It only took a couple hours work to get them working, and our mod community seems pretty clever so I don't think we will have much trouble when ARMA3 is out.

To be fair compared to OPF there is more stuff to do with any mod, as people have said though, it can be overcome if there are sample models/tutorials about.

Anyway, I guess we will have to wait and see...

EDIT: Also I don't know what is with all this doom and gloom about A3? I for one am very excited about it!

[drmidnight 10]

This is something that was inevitable. They were bound to make a new game sometime....

As for large addons, it shouldn't be too time consuming to adapt them for Arma III unless there are major changes to the config side of things. Most of the mods have decent models that would look just fine in Arma 3, it's not like OFP>Arma where the poly count and texture res was way too low. I don't really see the issue.

I for one can't wait to see how the new game will be pushed.

[PuFu 4591]

it seems that the ones who are "afraid" (to quote the title) aren't even the actual...modders/addon makers...weird isn't it? (wolle doesn't count, he is just unhappy since he needs to buy a new whip every other day)

[max power 21]

But they'll look ugly. And you're only speaking about vehicles, which are the easiest part with buildings.

I wasn't only speaking about vehicles.

And ugly is not the word. They will look less rich- and they will look weird beside other very rich objects.

[[GLT] Legislator 62]

it seems that the ones who are "afraid" (to quote the title) aren't even the actual...modders/addon makers...weird isn't it? (wolle doesn't count, he is just unhappy since he needs to buy a new whip every other day)

Meaning what?

[Zipper5 74]

Moving to the Arma 3 section.

And to throw in my opinion: just like Arma 2 and ArmA before it, people will be freaking out over the next few weeks about what they absolutely hate about Arma 3 and how it will kill the community. Then it will calm down for a long time. Then new and cool information will be released as to what Arma 3 will feature, and the mood will pick up. Finally, Arma 3 will be released, people will buy it, play it, and then complain for a few weeks about how things aren't what they were expecting, or how porting stuff is too difficult. People will get all worked up and leave, and then once more, things will settle down.

And frankly, those remaining will be enjoying what sounds to be a great game.

tl;dr - no different to the announcement of any other game with a strong community.

Edited May 21, 2011 by Zipper5

[AstroMan 10]

Moving to the Arma 3 section.

And to throw in my opinion: just like Arma 2 and ArmA before it, people will be freaking out over the next few weeks about what they absolutely hate about Arma 3 and how it will kill the community. Then it will calm down for a long time. Then new and cool information will be released as to what Arma 3 will feature, and the mood will pick up. Finally, Arma 3 will be released, people will buy it, play it, and then complain for a few weeks about how things aren't what they were expecting, or how porting stuff is too difficult. People will get all worked up and leave, and then once more, things will settle down.

And frankly, those remaining will be enjoying what sounds to be a great game.

tl;dr - no different to the announcement of any other game with a strong community.

thats the most sensible and true thing someone has said so far.

[Flash Thunder 10]

It's a fact that development takes way too long if you want bug free and decent models. As ArmA2 was released we were barely ready with CWR1, and by the look of it it will be the same when A3 is going to be released.

And honestly, I'm tired of working on a Mod every day for years, literally doing nothing else besides that with the game just to start over again when the next title is pushed out and then repeat with the next title.

I feel your guys pain but what else is BIS going to do? They have to make money and the engine has to keep evolving to appeal to more people.

Big projects like yours I think will become rare and we will only see mods like Islands/weapons/and skins like we do now instead of giant gameplay and featuresets.

[ProfTournesol 956]

I wasn't only speaking about vehicles.

And ugly is not the word. They will look less rich- and they will look weird beside other very rich objects.

Yes, ugly or less rich, is not that far away. Porting infantry is much harder, considering the animations. But anyway, if someone want a Napoleonic or Wh40K mod in ArmA2 or 3, they just have to learn and make it by themselves, instead of waiting for old members to do it for them. But that's a wishful thinking i'm afraid.

[wolfbite 8]

TO be honest I'm glad if addons have to be totally made from scratch for this... It will hopefully mean major improvements in the engine.. I always viewed it as its easy to port over old stuff it means not much has changed...

[W0lle 1046]

TO be honest I'm glad if addons have to be totally made from scratch for this... It will hopefully mean major improvements in the engine.. I always viewed it as its easy to port over old stuff it means not much has changed...

Yeah it's soooo easy to port old stuff over. That means that all the big Mods which are in development since years are full of lazy bummers. You obviously have no idea what it means to properly port an addon over even from the previous Engine (A1), not to mention OFP content.

Legislator;1933063']Meaning what?

Hard to describe, you need to join us to get an idea. :D

[max power 21]

Yes, ugly or less rich, is not that far away. Porting infantry is much harder, considering the animations. But anyway, if someone want a Napoleonic or Wh40K mod in ArmA2 or 3, they just have to learn and make it by themselves, instead of waiting for old members to do it for them. But that's a wishful thinking i'm afraid.

There's nothing to do about the animations, and rigging, unfortunately. However, the point I was making is that the developer can choose what they want to do with the visual style and technology they wish to use. Footmunch's F-16 wasn't ugly in ArmA. I'm not sure if the port to ArmA 2 has supershaders or not.

It is quite unlikely that a mod maker would pass up the opportunity to use new and exciting technologies.

But I think the point is that I seem to recall addons not using the supershader not really being decried for their visual style in the early days of ArmA2.

[pathetic_berserker 4]

Grr, I realy don't want to complain about the release of A3, as it is a good thing and the Mod community will survive it. But unfortunately the negative comments in this thread are all too true. I remember being part of the Australia Isle map when it was basicaly killed by the A2 announcement. And it seemed to me that activity in the mod sector fell off a bit with the A2 release. It would be sad to see the trend continue, but I think it will.

Not that community content wil cease, but I think there will be less of it, and fewer big mods.

And given the small amount of time I have for the hobby I don't think I will be tempted to do any more for ArmA after I finish my current project.

I think Altimeter hit the nail on the head with this question;

Is there any way BIS could steer against that? Release more powerful / easier mod tools?

It brought to mind some of the ground community members have broken over the years with O2 or mission editing, that should have been embraced by BIS but instead have been (or will be) left to become defunct while the actual BIS tools are little better than the OFP release.