Do you want Laaagdoll Physics in ArmA 3?

[dmarkwick 261]

Cant tell you exactly the last time but definately done more than 5 times over the years playing A1 and A2. Saved my arse at least twice.

Problem here is I see a lot of people arguing eye candy over the depth of game play. All I can say is that I hope BIS dosn't include unless they can come to a solution where game play doesnt suffer in ANY way.

I've mentioned one solution - synced torsos with radgoll limbs. Should suit you :)

And of course there is the other unrealistic side of Ragdoll when not done properly and not mentioned at the start. Oily frictionless slugs. Cant stand bodies that refuse to stop sliding on stuff.

Freeze the ragdoll after either a set time, or after a minimum amount of activity. So sliding bodies should not occur. Also, it's about implementation, simply don't allow any sliding & ramp the friction up.

Whats more, rag dolls still often dont get the collision with walls right enough to be 100% convincing.

Unlike the current system? Ragdoll is way more convincing than the current system, and is therefore a step forward.

I'd rather hope they significantly improve colision detection and the possible animation combinations to negate the hanging bodies (which I dont actualy see very much anyway).

And arrive at a smarter solution to the age old, but good, but not good enough, ragdoll

I'm sure that a well thought out and considered implementation can be reached. I'm convinced of it :)

[Archosaurusrev 12]

Better death animations + shot impact animations.

All we need.

[dissaifer 10]

First off, I read the link to someone's thesis paper on ragdoll physics and frankly didn't see the point of that link, because it didn't address MP syncing and ragdoll, just the process of a person who didn't know ragdoll, implementing it, and the problems they ran into.

I have to fully agree with DMarkwick, there are solutions for this syncing the ragdoll effects.

[Tonmeister 14]

First off, I read the link to someone's thesis paper on ragdoll physics and frankly didn't see the point of that link, because it didn't address MP syncing and ragdoll, just the process of a person who didn't know ragdoll, implementing it, and the problems they ran into.

sounds like they earnt their PhD.

[krazikilla 5]

Another game which made Ragdoll and disemberement pretty right was Red Orchestra 1. Version 2 looks even better.

I think it looks good, its used but not overdone:

[Windexglow 10]

You can also blend animations with rag dolls - nothings stopping you from programming that. WolfFire Games has some excellent examples in their videos of this.

Identifying if you shot someone or if someone went to lay on the ground will be much harder now. There won't be a dramatic spin around like in arma2.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

I'm not bothered. As long as it doesn't turn into flying ragdoll effects ala Unreal Tournament back in the day when ragdoll was new.

There are better ways to "blend animations" than ragdoll, and I'm sure the devs have some technical expertize on the area. Probably more than us gamers ;)

[Pauldarrington 9]

I'm curious if we do have ragdoll effects will it take into account near by explosions or being hit.

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

I'm curious if we do have ragdoll effects will it take into account near by explosions or being hit.

If ragdolls are going to be used for infantry, then no question about it - high pressure zones will be simulated, question is: if dead/inactive entities like corpses will be subject to this, or will they be deactivated after a certain period of time.

[kylania 567]

So, let me understand this... Your argument against having ragdoll deaths (because that is the only time you really use it) is because you 'may' want to use the body for cover?

When is the last time you've done that in game? Or anyone for that matter?

Quite often as a matter of fact.

[liquidpinky 11]

Quite often as a matter of fact.

I am a frequent user of the man portable cover system (dead body) also.

[Maddmatt 1]

If ArmA 2 simulated bullet penetration on bodies, they wouldn't make such good cover any more....

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

I am a frequent user of the man portable cover system (dead body) also.

Deja vu. I have used bodies for cover in ArmA 2, and never, never were they able to stop bullets: you see the blood splatter effects of projectiles hitting it, yet you still die - client side dislocation? :computer: Deja vu.

People arguing against ragdolls are ignorant of the fundamentals and the change it would bring to a game like ArmA.

[kylania 567]

Clearly the solution is to equip every weapon with overloaded HE rounds and use lose ragdoll physics for everything.

I for one will miss a sapling stopping my Merkava and using bodies for cover but if it gets me blossoming plumes of soldier bodies with every shot, it'll so be worth it!

[SprintJack 10]

Battlefield games (at least since Battlefield 2) use MP synchronised ragdolls to be able to revive dead bodies.

[Richey79 10]

Another game which made Ragdoll and disemberement pretty right was Red Orchestra 1. Version 2 looks even better.

I think it looks good, its used but not overdone:

To my eye, those animations don't look nearly as fluid as those we already have in Arma 2 (except for the death animations). It's odd - I really like TWI's products, but there's something about the company that makes me think their games would still smell of low-budget, no matter how much money they spent developing them.

Some things are done poorly in the video: the upper-half of the characters don't move fluidly to complement the movement of the lower-halves of their bodies. Also, when the machine-gun kills the Germans who are running, they take a step backwards clutching their chests. What's impressive about Euphoria is that the momentum of their bodies would have carried them forwards realistically.

It will be nice to have improved death animations in Arma 3, anyway. The devs will have to be very careful to make the right compromises, though: Why spend CPU cycles on physics calculations for an enemy who is dying 'off screen' for the player? However, what pose will the corpse be in when the player comes across it, and what will happen if the player turns to look at the dying character half-way through the death animation?

It's all eye-candy that won't make much difference to gameplay, but might to immersion. Arma 2 will still be there if Arma 3 takes some wrong turns, anyway.

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

It's all eye-candy that won't make much difference to gameplay, but might to immersion. Arma 2 will still be there if Arma 3 takes some wrong turns, anyway.

Bullshiat. You tell me why there needs to be a trigger, when a sentry is silently eliminated in some god forsaken corner of the base:

dMBH17nbego

You tell me what would happen if ragdolls were in use - imagination fired up yet?

The fundamentals, which you define as 'gimmicks' are what makes, or breaks the game: you like flying tanks, BMPs downhill doing 180 km/h with no damage to the tracks, how about being stuck on a rock for all eternity, what about a parachute that won't close, when you land upside-down, or perhaps exploding planes at a touch of the left, back landing gear, how about non-functioning auto-rotation due to the hull being regarded as a 100 ton fuel tank.

:rolleyes:

[Flash Thunder 10]

The fundamentals, which you define as 'gimmicks' are what makes, or breaks the game: you like flying tanks, BMPs downhill doing 180 km/h with no damage to the tracks, how about being stuck on a rock for all eternity, what about a parachute that won't close, when you land upside-down, or perhaps exploding planes at a touch of the left, back landing gear, how about non-functioning auto-rotation due to the hull being regarded as a 100 ton fuel tank.

People on here just like to QQ that's all.

[Laqueesha 474]

Very true. What they don't do is hang 15ft above the ground suspended only by their toes at 90 degrees to their guard tower, nor do they levitate when the building around them collapses.

Pwnt. ^

[walker 0]

So, let me understand this... Your argument against having ragdoll deaths (because that is the only time you really use it) is because you 'may' want to use the body for cover?

When is the last time you've done that in game? Or anyone for that matter?

Hi Dissaifer

I will answer the second Question first: That would be yesterday; in a game of Valhalla on the Dao server, sniper with a suppressed rifle took out the guy in front and then wounded me, I managed to heal myself up behind the body and get out of the line of fire when they reloaded.

I use bodies as cover and concealment all the time as do many others who play ArmA.

As to the first question; Ragdoll requires masses more bandwidth; as I pointed out in several earlier posts both in this thread and several other threads. That is if you use it to replace all of BIS's current movement animations as many of the pro-ragdoll crowd are calling for.

If the intention is to just replace ArmA's death animations, I question whether it is possible to make even a successful implementation of that as there are still the synch issues I pointed out earlier and all for what, "a beautiful corpse"?

I even question whether Ragdoll illustrates correctly how corpses fall. As Ragdoll in fact only does one form of death eg a medulla oblongata shot; thus causing the puppet with its strings cut death animation typical of ragdoll. When in reality most shots will not cut the brain stem, the muscles in most cases then are active even in many head shots so the last instructions from the brain to said muscles still transmit, a dead body may even run for a time after killed. Even if it is not running, short of a medulla oblongata shot retained muscle tone means a body may stumble and attempt to remain upright for several seconds.

Kind Regards walker

Edited May 20, 2011 by walker

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

People on here just like to QQ that's all.

Good thing BIS is not paying attention to irrationality and going forth with whatever they have planned.

"Dare to dream a little higher, my darling."

[dmarkwick 261]

Hi Dissaifer

I will answer the second Question first: That would be yesterday; in a game of Valhalla on the Dao server, sniper with a suppressed rifle took out the guy in front and then wounded me, I managed to heal myself up behind the body and get out of the line of fire when they reloaded.

I use bodies as cover and concealment all the time as do many others who play ArmA.

As to the first question; Ragdoll requires masses more bandwidth; as I pointed out in several earlier posts both in this thread and several other threads. That is if you use it to replace all of BIS's current movement animations as many of the pro-ragdoll crowd are calling for.

If the intention is to just replace ArmA's death animations, I question whether it is possible to make even a successful implementation of that as there are still the synch issues I pointed out earlier and all for what, "a beautiful corpse"?

I even question whether Ragdoll illustrates correctly how corpses fall. As Ragdoll in fact only does one form of death eg a medulla oblongata shot; thus causing the puppet with its strings cut death animation of of ragdoll. When in reality most shots will not cut the brain stem, the muscles in most cases then are active even in many head shots so the last instructions from the brain to said muscles still transmit, a dead body may even run for a time after killed. Even if it is not running, short of a medulla oblongata shot retained muscle tone means a body may stumble and attempt to remain upright for several seconds.

Kind Regards walker

You seem to be deliberately ignoring points made on MP sync solutions.

As for a genuine reason for ragdoll, the main one I can think of is battlefield visual dissonance. If you've played a lot of ArmA, and I'm guessing you have, then you know what a dead body looks like at almost any distance, within a second or so of seeing it. Simply because you know all the death poses and have a little mental silhouette comparison thing going on in your visual processing. Ragdoll will break up that silhouette and will make you act differently when deciding to break cover. Not knowing what an object is makes you act differently, might compell you to put a few rounds into it, or get someone else to have a look at it or something.

[maddogx 13]

You seem to be deliberately ignoring points made on MP sync solutions.

As for a genuine reason for ragdoll, the main one I can think of is battlefield visual dissonance. If you've played a lot of ArmA, and I'm guessing you have, then you know what a dead body looks like at almost any distance, whithin a second or so of seeing it. Simply because you know all the death poses and have a little mental silhouette comparison thing going on in your visual processing. Ragdoll will break up that silhouette and will make you act differently when deciding to break cover. Not knowing what an object is makes you act differently, might compell you to put a few rounds into it, or get someone else to have a look at it or something.

Or to some it up: ragdolls promote emergent gameplay.

[Laqueesha 474]

Or to some it up: ragdolls promote emergent gameplay.

You seem to be deliberately ignoring points made on MP sync solutions.

As for a genuine reason for ragdoll, the main one I can think of is battlefield visual dissonance. If you've played a lot of ArmA, and I'm guessing you have, then you know what a dead body looks like at almost any distance, within a second or so of seeing it. Simply because you know all the death poses and have a little mental silhouette comparison thing going on in your visual processing. Ragdoll will break up that silhouette and will make you act differently when deciding to break cover. Not knowing what an object is makes you act differently, might compell you to put a few rounds into it, or get someone else to have a look at it or something.

This. ^

[dmarkwick 261]

if you use it to replace all of BIS's current movement animations as many of the pro-ragdoll crowd are calling for.

I'm a little confused on this point: are you sure you've understood what everyone means when they discuss ragdoll? Or are you using some other definition?