Stealth Kills?

[Vladplaya 10]

I am all for stealth kills. If I come up on an enemy, who doesn't know I am behind his back, there should be no reasons as to why I shouldn't be able to take him out with single hit of a knife to the neck, or single hit with stock to the back of the head.

[Beagle 684]

I am all for stealth kills. If I come up on an enemy, who doesn't know I am behind his back, there should be no reasons as to why I shouldn't be able to take him out with single hit of a knife to the neck, or single hit with stock to the back of the head.

Body armour and Helmet will be in the way. This is not 1860 anymore and it's not indians versus cowboys. And heres a shocking fact for you: Tthere are no lone soldiers standing around...the usual guard is two of them with another two watching them guarding from 20m away...for a stealth kill you have to kill four at once...and don't forget the sniper team oberserving the camp you're sneaking in. everytiem I read "one enemy" I want to reminf that ArmA is about large scale combat with sections, groups, platoons...not single men standing around.

Knifes are so neglegtable in modern combat that more and more soldiers use simple folding knifes, the swiss ones beeing the most used ones worldwide.

Edited October 28, 2011 by Beagle

[Blackfox34 14]

I'll have to disagree with that.

Most war isn't "conventional" these days and therefore conventional fighting forces are facing up against more guerillas forces, which have different tactics and training (if any).

This leads the ability of groups to have single guards etc..

[ProfTournesol 956]

I'll have to disagree with that.

Most war isn't "conventional" these days and therefore conventional fighting forces are facing up against more guerillas forces, which have different tactics and training (if any).

This leads the ability of groups to have single guards etc..

Moreover it's a game.

[Beagle 684]

I'll have to disagree with that.

Most war isn't "conventional" these days and therefore conventional fighting forces are facing up against more guerillas forces, which have different tactics and training (if any).

This leads the ability of groups to have single guards etc..

ArmA features very conventional war. And the current stealth kill ability does the job well. The feature thet is really missing is a reaction to dead bodies or missing individuals. Without that there is no need for Ninja features. Edited October 28, 2011 by Beagle

[Vladplaya 10]

Body armour and Helmet will be in the way. This is not 1860 anymore and it's not indians versus cowboys. And heres a shocking fact for you: Tthere are no lone soldiers standing around...the usual guard is two of them with another two watching them guarding from 20m away...for a stealth kill you have to kill four at once...and don't forget the sniper team oberserving the camp you're sneaking in. everytiem I read "one enemy" I want to reminf that ArmA is about large scale combat with sections, groups, platoons...not single men standing around.

Knifes are so neglegtable in modern combat that more and more soldiers use simple folding knifes, the swiss ones beeing the most used ones worldwide.

So you saying there will never be a situation where you can come up on a single soldier standing further than 20 feet away from another soldier, in the entire game? Or you can't kill three guards and come up behind last person left, who is probably gonna be hiding behind a cover at the point? And apparently there will be snipers overlooking Every city, every village, every enemy installation in the game too?

Helmet and body armor? http://static2.videogamer.com/videogamer/media/images/pub/large/arma3.jpg Don't tell me that trained soldier wouldn't be able to stab a knife in the exposed half foot area of the neck?

Yeah arma is about large scale, but in ArmA 3 we will have around 50 cities with all buildings that you can enter, which will make some encounters pretty up-close and personal. Even than I am not talking about running around slicing people with my knife, I am talking about rare occasions and chances when its better to use your knife than shoot a single guy when he happened to stand with his back turned to you.

I am talking about the game btw, not how things work in real life.

[rye1 21]

ArmA features very conventional war. And the current stealth kill ability does the job well. The feature thet is really missing is a reaction to dead bodies or missing individuals. Without that there is no need for Ninja features.

Well no doubt BIS would look into that with the enemy uniform feature.

Plus missions are based around the features, if someone wanted to use a stealth kill feature in game they'd make it entirely possible. And it's not all conventional, and it's not always against modern armies either; they'll have guerrilla units.

[PuFu 4591]

i keep repeating myself. I guess no one is against being able to kill another with a knife. The problem is a possible improper implementation. Plus for the very few number of times one might use it, the time spent by BIS trying to implement such a thing.

VBS2 doesn't have such a feature either, and i have't seen the Armies around the world using it bitching about it with their trainings

[ProfTournesol 956]

i keep repeating myself. I guess no one is against being able to kill another with a knife. The problem is a possible improper implementation. Plus for the very few number of times one might use it, the time spent by BIS trying to implement such a thing.

VBS2 doesn't have such a feature either, and i have't seen the Armies around the world using it bitching about it with their trainings

A simple feature would be enough and very useful modwise. Yeah, i know i said it already, but this forum needs some Coué method :)

Edited October 29, 2011 by ProfTournesol

[PuFu 4591]

A simple feature would be enough and very useful modwise. Yeah, i know i said it already, but this forum needs some Coué method :)

I know for you and your addon, it will be such a massive improvement.

I said it before. I would rather see it defined in the configs and with a simple animation for it (as in ready to mod it out) and NOT implemented in the game if that was the case. (i don't even wanna touch the lack of proper animation tools or exporter subject)

That way ppl such as yourself could easily port/create whatever roman/dark age mod they want to.

But even then, one needs to understand that this is a bit more than a SDK, it is a game that has a set scope for a completely different warfare than swords, axes, bayonets and alike...

[ProfTournesol 956]

But even then, one needs to understand that this is a bit more than a SDK, it is a game that has a set scope for a completely different warfare than swords, axes, bayonets and alike...

Yep, the bayonet thingy may suit other more streamlined mods than those i'm stubbornly trying to implement, like WW2 ones. A simple striking ability with a default but moddable anim, without any bullet simulation. This could be easily extended, to animal attacks for example (like i'm doing actually with Itweas wolf for OFP.).

[Brain 12]

I still think its a good idea IF:

You first hang your weapon around silently (10sec maybe)

Take out a knife silently (5 sec maybe)

And then ur able to stealth kill somebody...

So overall it took 15 seconds to take out a knife silently....

But if it would be like CoD/BF/*insert name of arcade game like the first two here*/... if you can knife someone while running and so on it would suck.

Edited October 29, 2011 by Brain

[MADDOGdb7 10]

I still think its a good idea IF:

You first hang your weapon around silently (10sec maybe)

Take out a knife silently (5 sec maybe)

And then ur able to stealth kill somebody...

So overall it took 15 seconds to take out a knife silently....

But if it would be like CoD/BF/*insert name of arcade game like the first two here*/... if you can knife someone while running and so on it would suck.

I don't think taking out knife should take 5 seconds, even if done slowly it should take maybe 2 seconds.

[SGT.cz90-CZ 10]

My two cents: Make it literarly impossible to stealth kill someone while running/while he is running - rather have a random chance of injuring the person to random amount. You'd think twice before putting your rifle down then.

But if you can sneak up behind someone unnoticed... well, you're almost guaranteed a stealth kill (random chance of victim screaming etc.) with a high chance of remaining unnoticed. But then, don't make the corpses disappear as they use to so far when hiding them. Have the player drag them away instead.

Then a chance that someone will notice the guy's missing, and perhaps launching a search for him, eventually finding the corpse... bang, player detected!

[maddogx 13]

Considering stealth on the whole, one thing that would be needed in the engine is a kind of "hearing threshold" for the AI. In a loud environment, for example where tank motors, generators, ambient battle or even rain is making noise, quiet sounds such as footsteps should be "drowned out", becoming less audible for the AI depending on the ambient noise level.

[NoRailgunner 0]

+ other AIs should be able to notice that something is wrong/someone is missing (increased alertness, re-checking teammates, positions, ...)

A3 is set in 2035 more and better ground surveillance radar/advanced NV+FLIR cameras and sensors will be in more places where important persons, documents, devices etc are located. Makes it more challenging for the player to plan and to finish a mission. Best covert operation is of surprise and a enemy that is left clueless and snoozy behind. No need to wake up the dogs and start a chase with a 50/50 chance of surviving it. ;)

[MADDOGdb7 10]

My two cents: Make it literarly impossible to stealth kill someone while running/while he is running - rather have a random chance of injuring the person to random amount. You'd think twice before putting your rifle down then.

But if you can sneak up behind someone unnoticed... well, you're almost guaranteed a stealth kill (random chance of victim screaming etc.) with a high chance of remaining unnoticed. But then, don't make the corpses disappear as they use to so far when hiding them. Have the player drag them away instead.

Then a chance that someone will notice the guy's missing, and perhaps launching a search for him, eventually finding the corpse... bang, player detected!

What If you jack his clothes like what was done in the tutorial at E3

[PrivateWolf 10]

A simple bayonet that can be attached/removed would be nice :)

[CarlGustaffa 4]

And use action menu "Use Bayonet" when attacking someone, or have it as an idle thing where you wipe out your squad and go "whoops"? :p

[Pulverizer 1]

Errrr.. no? How about a weapon you select with F and fire with mouse button and/or a key bind like "step over" and "salute".

Attaching would be handled the same as scopes etc of course.

[wipman 1]

Hi, on the OFP you had two different 'hand-to-hand' weapons, punch and kick; something like this could be brought back again; you perform a random HTH attack that should only enter in concact with the other unit's body, then, "it's turned Off". Just make dissable all it's functions "matrix style" for like 1mins 30secs (like a hollywood K.O.), time enough for steal his/her weapon and gear; was just an idea.

A stealth kill with a weapon, could be keept "stealth" withing a group by like 3mins always that no other AI see the body count, until the team leader or some member of the squad asks for a radio report of possitions.

The SD weapons can be heard beyond the 40m on the open ground and much more by night, the muzzle flash isn't a problem as there isn't any, but the powder smoke is, as the smokeless power isn't really "that smokeless". But you can't make a stealth kill on the ArmA2 unless the dead unit be far away from any observer and the action of kill this one; rightnow you can't be James Bond on the ArmA2. Let's C ya

Edited November 1, 2011 by wipman

[The Hebrew Hammer 10]

Or just have a designated melee key so you get close enough, hit it and that makes the player grab the enemy by the mouth and then you stab the dude right in the aorta..

But of course we can't have nice things and you'll cry unrealistic, so making the game playable for stealth missions will never happen.

[rye1 21]

I like the use of could be kept a stealth weapon. That's true. We use SD weapons in non-stealth forms too, this should be applied here.

[eaglezero6205 10]

I just started a topic about the METAL GEAR SOLID campaign project I'm working on and I stumbled across this thread. I was going to suggest that mod that allows to use the butt of your weapon to take down an enemy but I got to thinking about it and I wonder would it be possible to add kicks and punches? An idea I thought of for my project was to use for example the ACE Drag or I guess Default Drag type of animation to actually subdue your opponent via a Headlock/Choke-hold to Incapacitate or break the neck of the opponent. It doesn't get more stealthy then that. with that idea in mind if you guys pull this off let me know I would love to be able use something like this in my project.

Heres an example you sneak up on your opponent from behind then you get an Action "Grab" via the action menu you select the action and then your player performs a grab and then leans back with an arm around the target then you get like 10 seconds to access an ACE type menu to choose to rather "Incapacitate" or Break "Neck" and if you don't do it fast enough the animation stops and he breaks free not allowing the move again on that soldier in his Awareness.

to have both options would be better fitting due to an example of maybe you have to catch but not kill your Target or maybe its a civilian that is going to give away your position Seals would have to do this sort of thing I'm sure.Anyway just a thought.

[rye1 21]

butt of your weapon to take down an enemy

Lol,

. 4:30.