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Invasion 1944 v2.5 (CO)

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low muzzlevelocity compared to what? I stand corrected on the muzzle velocity, I typed that in by mistake. It's actually 805 m/sec which is lower than the hispano mk. II, but has a hell of a lot faster rate of fire. the MG131/20 also had a faster rof than the MG FF. Still 800 m/sec isn't considered "low" and I don't know what you mean by "impulse" weapon, this isn't star wars, it was a "kinetic weapon" sounds better.

You don't know what impulse is? What are they teaching kids in school these days?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impulse_%28physics%29

As for the cannon, the MG151/20 is itself a development of the MG151/15, which was shown to have lacklustre performance owing to the insufficient explosive carrying capacity of its projectiles. The 20mm shell is simply a necked up 15mm shell, which sacrifices some 16%-30% of its muzzle velocity for projectile weight. To keep the cartridge length the same as for the 15mm projectile, they also shortened the casing, so it would be compatible with the MG151/15's action. So, you can see that the MG151/20 is a 20mm cannon firing a cannon shell with the same or lower amount of propellant energy, offering the same or lower impulse. This was done because an aircraft weaponry study found that the weapons putting out the most weight of fire (in lbs) per second were found to be the most effective. This can also be seen in the differences between the hispano II and the hispano V.

Read some more here: http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/WW2guneffect.htm

edit: I've been finding that there are a lot of disparate reports of the muzzle velocity of the mg151/20 between 720 and 800 m/s. Perhaps you could share where you got the very specific value of 805 m/s. That would be great. At any rate, 720 m/s is low velocity compared to other contemporary 20mm aircraft cannons. The ShVAK cannon's projectiles left the muzzle at 770 m/s, the projectiles of the hispano II at 880 m/s, and of the hispano V at 840. 800 would seem to be about average.

Wrong.

The AN/M2 stands for "army/navy"

and M2 is standard designation for all browning .50 cal HMG.

The AN variant was a lighter barreled version with a heavier bolt and higher RoF that was usually mounted on airframes. Due to the lighter barrel, RoF was theoretically 750-850 rpm users would fire weapons in quick,short bursts as to not warp the barrels due to overheating.

here are a few quick and dirty links.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M2_Browning

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_P-51_Mustang

Sorry, bud. Those are links for the M2, not the AN/M2.

http://browningmgs.com/AirGunnery/02_30cal.htm

Since you like wikipedia so much:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1919_Browning_machine_gun#AN.2FM2

I'll even quote you a portion:

A specific aircraft version of the Model 1919A4 was manufactured by Browning as the AN/M2 with a thinner barrel and thinner receiver walls. It was used on US aircraft early in the war, but was replaced by the larger .50 in (12.7 mm) M2 machine gun and relegated to training duties. A derivative of this weapon was built by Colt as the MG40. This weapon is not to be confused with the Browning Machine Gun, Cal. .50, M2, Aircraft, and its full designation is Browning Machine Gun, Cal. .30, M2, Aircraft. The .30 in M2 Browning is sometimes referred to as AN/M2.

Emphasis, mine.

Edited by Max Power

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Wow this thread got nerdy... but if we're reading wiki

The definitive version, the P-51D, was powered by the Packard V-1650-7, a licence-built version of the Rolls-Royce Merlin 60 series two-stage two-speed supercharged engine, and armed with six .50 caliber (12.7 mm) M2 Browning machine guns.

As the P-51D is the one we have in the game dated for 1944 I think its probably the 50 cal variant. As it stands we won't be doing any further changes to planes at this stage for 2.6, all I can say is they are all a lot easier to shoot down now, and play great with the netcode, and with the cool advances made by Gnat and Yac, we could hopefully have some cool features to come in the future.

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Hey guys could you give the guys personal radios or something, it becomes a pain in the ass when you can't hear or see what your men are doing.

I've found that if you addweapon a radio into your inventory it works, but otherwise it's a pain.

maybe a place holder could be made that's simply called "voice" or something could fix it and keep the realism...

also, do the bayonet and shovel items have any use?

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Hey guys could you give the guys personal radios or something, it becomes a pain in the ass when you can't hear or see what your men are doing.

I've found that if you addweapon a radio into your inventory it works, but otherwise it's a pain.

maybe a place holder could be made that's simply called "voice" or something could fix it and keep the realism...

also, do the bayonet and shovel items have any use?

Bayonets: fit 'em 'n slit 'em (garand & k98 only)

Shovel: dig & build stuff

Put down the initialisation module (if I remember right) and then they're on the i44 interaction menu

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Sorry, bud. Those are links for the M2, not the AN/M2.

http://browningmgs.com/AirGunnery/02_30cal.htm

Since you like wikipedia so much:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1919_Browning_machine_gun#AN.2FM2

I'll even quote you a portion:

Emphasis, mine.

wikipedia is not the best, but meh whatever.

sorry, man not trying to make you look like an idiot, however you do need to learn how to read beyond the first 3 sentences.

I will post it again, this time for your convienience I will copy the quote.

The M2 machine gun was widely used during World War II and in later postwar conflicts as a remote or flexible aircraft gun. For fixed (offensive) or flexible (defensive) guns used in aircraft, a dedicated M2 version was developed called the .50 Browning AN/M2. The "AN" stands for "Army/Navy", since the gun was developed jointly for use by both services (unusual for the time, when the delineations between the Army and Navy were much stricter, and relations between armed services were often cool, if not down-right hostile[citation needed]). The AN/M2 had a cyclic rate of 750–850 rounds per minute, with the ability to be fired from an electrically operated remote-mount solenoid trigger when installed as a fixed gun. Cooled by the aircraft's slip-stream, the air-cooled AN/M2 was fitted with a substantially lighter barrel, which also had the effect of increasing the rate of fire. The official designation for this weapon was Browning Machine Gun, Aircraft, Cal. .50, AN/M2 (Fixed) or (Flexible).

Don't know where you would get the notion that P-51's ever used .30 cals, but not since the prototype was a .30 cal ever mounted - and then it was called "NA-73X". Later it was totally changed and re-designated "P-51A"http://www.mustangsmustangs.com/p-51/p51variants/P-51A.shtml

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_P-51_Mustang

Never ever did a mustang mount a .30 cal period.

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It would be bloody awesome, if you could discuse it somewhere else (pm maybe).

Some fools have now been letting so much (put in some bad word) out in the JSRS tread, that it is closed.

We dont need more of that please.

And again, the new upcomeing 2,6 looks so great I can´t hardly wait to try it out.

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..... sorry, man not trying to make you look like an idiot, however .........

Wow, that stuff will get you heaps of friends around here.

As Higgings said, take it elswhere. This is OT.

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no one is getting personal or getting into a troll/flaming war.

as for staying on topic, I assure you it is very much so.

It was argued that the 50 was not used on the aforementioned aircraft,

I proved the first time that it was,

Then it was posted that I made a mistake about what I was referring to, so I posted again what I originally linked to - in greater detail.

The whole time I have been talking about P-51 mustang, the armament used, MG131, Rates of fire, etc. This is all relevant to this thread, and the I44 mod.

Keep note, that I haven't called anyone any names, i've been very careful what I wrote.

You can allude to what you will, subjective to your own personal ethics, and interpretation.

I have not, nor will at any time stray from the topic when it comes to this mod.

---------- Post added at 11:46 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:38 AM ----------

Almost forgot, a few of my friends have asked me to invite everyone that plays the I44 mod to come on our server to play Warfare with us.

We run the server 5-6 days out of the week, the other 1-2 days we switch to regular warfare.

So I cordially invite you all to come play with us on the teamdeadly server!

see ya on the battlefield!

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Once you guys are cooled off, you'll probably notice that the .30 cal M1919 and the .50 cal M2 are both referred to as "AN/M2" at various points. Could I suggest a nice debate about the "M1" next? What do you mean, "which M1?" :confused: :)

A poster doesn't have to call people names to come across as condescending. It's always a good idea to proof-read your post from the vantage point of whom it's aimed at. It's a good skill to develop.

If there's any obvious issues about the air balancing in the new version, I'm sure we'll tweak it with a follow-up patch. ArmA really isn't a dedicated aircraft simulator, so you can expect things to be shifted slightly more for beneficial gameplay rather than adhering strictly to historical data.

Edited by Homer Johnston
added smilies because smilies are cool

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While the information is relative, it really isn't anything we can't find outselves. Its all well and good setting weapons to match their real life counter-parts but when the vehicle itself isn't setup to the same degree of accuracy it'll have very little baring. With the Stuka's (from the Few) rear MG and P51's (one of our first planes for ArmA2) front mounted MG's, but the real issue is that both vehicles work on different damage models, the P51 using standard basic A2 plane setups, while the Few planes have a more advanced custom damage model. As I've said more times than I wanted to now, we are not overhauling every singple plane for 2.6. We could, but then you're all waiting an extra couple of months while we develop the systems for it, and as a team we aren't prepared to do this, its something that can and will be addressed in the future, so arguing about it here really isn't going to help. So while we do appreciate the information, there's been plenty of wiki qouting now.

Before things get too off-topic here we are choosing to close the thread now while we focus on finalising everything for 2.6, and the time I'm personally spending replying to questions that have often been asked and answered before it is time away from working on the mod. Closing the thread does not mean it will be release tommorow and maybe not even this week, but we are now very close.

Thanks to everyone who's supported the mod since 2.5's release, and before. A very special thanks to Jman from Kelly's Heroes, who provided so much support for the development and testing of the mod, without access to their servers 2.6 would have been near impossible to complete. A huge thanks also to those testers from Forgotten Honor campaign and the 6th Airborne who have helped test this latest version time and time again.

With 2.6's release we'll also be opening up our new website and forums which will hopefully help the I44 MP community to continue to develop and expand as the mod continues to grow. More information and links to that will be released in 2.6's release post.

As we've never been sure of what content will actually make the final cut of 2.6 there's been a number of new features that will be incorporated into the release that very little has been said about so I thought we'd leave you all with some information on some of the new features you'll be able to make use of:

-Animated hand signals available by either a radial menu or quick-keys enabling non-verbal communication between players.

-Advanced player wounding system with localised damage and hit effect animations, with visual and audio effects.

-Healing interface available to all units, with medic classes able to provide more efficient medical care.

-Crew served weapon features expanding on existing OA features, allowing players to mount certain carried weapons on deployed tripods instead of purely backpack placed construction, with the added ability to load ammo and adjust the position of weapons easily.

-Penetration damage & additional effects system for tanks, enables a more accurate damage system on armoured vehicles taking into account rounds used, armour thickness, and direction of attack, this system is still a work-in-progress and will be expanded even further in future releases, but we found it to be such an improvement on the gameplay we just had to include, it also features smaller effects such as interior noises, impact sounds and directional warning HUD, vehicles only exploding if ammo or fuel positions are hit, chances of crew death and being set on fire, to name a few.

-Battlegrounds, a new TvT play style bringing faster paced quick action gameplay in contrast to larger slow paced missions. These capture and hold missions pit two teams against each other to control points across designated areas on our maps in a ticket-based contest to hold the most ground. Featuring a quick class change system, role-defined skills and weapons, AI bots capable of capturing and holding positions, classic deathmatch kill confirmation messages giving weapon and range information, with user parameters allowing you to customise the mission each time you play. All this is based on a simple template which can easily be ported by users to any map with very minimal work required beyond repositioning capture points and setting their names.

I can guarantee there will be plenty for everyone to check out when 2.6 is released, and probably a lot more I forgot to mention. So thank you all again for your interest in Invasion 1944 v2.6, we hope to bring it you all as soon as we possibly can. In the meantime if you already have an account feel free to chat over on our public forums before we close them up and move over to the new forums. Thanks again everyone, see you on the other side!

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Don't know where you would get the notion that P-51's ever used .30 cals, but not since the prototype was a .30 cal ever mounted - and then it was called "NA-73X". Later it was totally changed and re-designated "P-51A"http://www.mustangsmustangs.com/p-51/p51variants/P-51A.shtml

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_P-51_Mustang

Never ever did a mustang mount a .30 cal period.

I didn't. I said that the designation an/m2 was for a 30 cal machinegun, which is true. I didn't say anything about any aircraft at all.

Before things get too off-topic here we are choosing to close the thread now while we focus on finalising everything for 2.6, and the time I'm personally spending replying to questions that have often been asked and answered before it is time away from working on the mod. Closing the thread does not mean it will be release tommorow and maybe not even this week, but we are now very close.

Okay, then. Thread closed.

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