"Stalingrad" in OFP

[sn1per 0]

The islands in OFP offer good open combat grounds but I think it should have one bigger city with burnt down suburbs and industrial zones.

Don't understand this wrong. I don't wan't anything like CS maps (I hate CS and other variants) But modern combat does emphasize on cities (E.G grozny in chechnya)

I just think it would be great that OFP campaign had included a seizure of a city. Not anything huge but at the moment there's only small villages (wouldn't call them even villages) in OFP.

Maybe the only way to get a city to OFP is editing it by myself...

Anyway, I just want to hear does anyone else have same kind of ideas.

[Intruder 0]

You mean like this

http://ndf85.free.fr/redsummer/images/screen/screen5.jpg

[sn1per 0]

Yeah, something like that. Should've been in OFP right from the beginning. Only thing I don't like in that city is the "fence" surrounding it.

I think I'm gonna use the editor to create a city using one of the villages already in OFP.

[amos m 0]

What's the point. If you played againts ai you'd be dead in seconds anyway.

[sn1per 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from amos m on 2:56 pm on Dec. 20, 2001

What's the point. If you played againts ai you'd be dead in seconds anyway.<span id='postcolor'>

If the AI can shoot me in the open with one shot from 500m when I'm hiding in bush or behind a three, Wouldn't make much difference if he shoots in close combat.

I can't understand your point either.

[Intruder 0]

I think bigger towns is a good idea. The only problem is major slowdown with so many buildings in a small area.

[bangcraher 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from sn1per on 2:31 pm on Dec. 20, 2001

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from amos m on 2:56 pm on Dec. 20, 2001

What's the point. If you played againts ai you'd be dead in seconds anyway.<span id='postcolor'>

If the AI can shoot me in the open with one shot from 500m  when I'm hiding in bush or behind a three, Wouldn't make much difference if he shoots in close combat.

I can't understand your point either.

<span id='postcolor'>

I agree and not, you have one adventage: you can hide you in a house where the AI never comes

(I have never seen them climbing on ladders or stairs on theirselves) and has more difficulties to shoot you.

[Brass 0]

you cant be any more wrong.

"look at grozny". the russians bombarded the city with heavy artillery until everything was flattened, to make sure they lost the least number of troops. so thats a poor example.

in a confined area, you need all your whits about you, the poor structure of everything physical in ofp makes that a waste of time, plus you view a 15 inch screen, and that aint a great view of everything around you, cos in real life you may see things from the corner of your eye and act on them.

your bodily actions cannot compensate for the environment, eg, youll crouch around a corner or something, showing the minimal amount to shoot at, you cant have that in the limited number of actions in ofp.

the title you used "stalingrad". the conflict was over 50 years ago, military hardware has changed a lot since then, so its a very poor comparison.

[MrLaggy 0]

The big problem is that, as someone said, the AIs don't know how to move in buildings... so what's the point in having a city if you can only fight in multi-player? How are you going to get enough players to make a city battle viable?

[sn1per 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Brass on 8:23 pm on Dec. 20, 2001

you cant be any more wrong.

"look at grozny". the russians bombarded the city with heavy artillery until everything was flattened, to make sure they lost the least number of troops. so thats a poor example.

in a confined area, you need all your whits about you, the poor structure of everything physical in ofp makes that a waste of time, plus you view a 15 inch screen, and that aint a great view of everything around you, cos in real life you may see things from the corner of your eye and act on them.

your bodily actions cannot compensate for the environment, eg, youll crouch around a corner or something, showing the minimal amount to shoot at, you cant have that in the limited number of actions in ofp.

the title you used "stalingrad". the conflict was over 50 years ago, military hardware has changed a lot since then, so its a very poor comparison.<span id='postcolor'>

To Br ass

yeah, right. So all the wars nowadays are fought in woods and open ground. Sorry buddy, that was 50 years ago, there is no use controlling woods or hills.

Can you read? I said in my post "burnt down suburbs " and it can be understood as parts of the city. If you look at the images from Grozny during the war (and you are not blind) there are actually quite a lot of intact buildings .

Oh hey please tell me about Stalingrad, I've studied ww2 a lot.

My point with mentioning stalingrad was that in campaign (or single mission) it would be great to have to mop out or defend a city as your last stand (did you know that german lost their 6th army in stalingrad?). But you can't expect everyone to understand the point

meitä on niin moneen junaan.

[Pitcher 0]

Don't forget the islands are small, there are no big city's on small islands. OK, I agree most of the towns in OFP are a bit small, but if you look at La Trinite, I don't think you can expect much larger towns to be prototypical.

[ebud 18]

I've been working on maing cities since the editor upgrade came out. Now I have 1.3 ghz machine and it's completely unplayable with more than 20 AI on the map. Too bad. Even the most slightly built up areas on the desert island cause a ton of slowdown.

Ebud

[sn1per 0]

You're right, the islands are a bit too small for a city and that the game slows down quite much when inserting buildings

I guess there's not much hope getting a city into OFP. Anyway I want to try to create at least something bigger than currently available.

[Krechet1 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Brass on 6:23 pm on Dec. 20, 2001

you cant be any more wrong.

"look at grozny". the russians bombarded the city with heavy artillery until everything was flattened, to make sure they lost the least number of troops. so thats a poor example.

in a confined area, you need all your whits about you, the poor structure of everything physical in ofp makes that a waste of time, plus you view a 15 inch screen, and that aint a great view of everything around you, cos in real life you may see things from the corner of your eye and act on them.

your bodily actions cannot compensate for the environment, eg, youll crouch around a corner or something, showing the minimal amount to shoot at, you cant have that in the limited number of actions in ofp.

the title you used "stalingrad". the conflict was over 50 years ago, military hardware has changed a lot since then, so its a very poor comparison.

<span id='postcolor'>

In 1996 we called Grozny Stalingrad-2000. Warfare hasn't changed. Assault rifles replaced bolt action rifles and T-80s replaced KV-1s... Not much has changed since WW2.

During urban combat it is rare that you ever see the enemy, mostly mines, booby traps and snipers. firefights are usually quick and bloody.

[Black Op 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from sn1per on 5:04 pm on Dec. 20, 2001

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Brass on 8:23 pm on Dec. 20, 2001

yeah, right. So all the wars nowadays are fought in woods and open ground. Sorry buddy, that was 50 years ago, there is no use controlling woods or hills.

Can you read? I said in my post "burnt down suburbs " and it can be understood as parts of the city. If you look at the images from Grozny during the war (and you are not blind) there are actually quite a lot of intact buildings .

Oh hey please tell me about Stalingrad, I've studied ww2 a lot.

<span id='postcolor'>

you say you have studied ww2 a lot but you say "So all the wars nowadays are fought in woods and open ground. Sorry buddy, that was 50 years ago, there is no use controlling woods or hills.

"

hmmmm

and war hasnt changed at all in the last 50 years, the tactics are still the same as they were back in ww2

[MotherRussiaAK74 0]

Well, that it is a simply brilliant town! But will there be any FPS damage?

[Soon2B 2nd LT 0]

I'm currently building a version of Mogadishu, Somalia on the dessert island for my Black Hawk Down map. It isn't a huge town but it's bigger than most of the towns in ofp. When I'm done the streets will be filled with burned out cars and the opposition will be crowds of armed civilians to keep that Somalia environment. unfortunately they'll be all white instead of african but you'll get the idea.

[Soon2B 2nd LT 0]

Oh and I forgot. The US is beginning to focus on more urban combat so all of you saying that wars take place out in the open are full of s**t. The US is currently designing a smaller wheeled tank for urban use seeing as the m1 isn't suited for it.

[sn1per 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Black Op on 12:17 am on Dec. 21, 2001

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from sn1per on 5:04 pm on Dec. 20, 2001

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Brass on 8:23 pm on Dec. 20, 2001

yeah, right. So all the wars nowadays are fought in woods and open ground. Sorry buddy, that was 50 years ago, there is no use controlling woods or hills.

Can you read? I said in my post "burnt down suburbs " and it can be understood as parts of the city. If you look at the images from Grozny during the war (and you are not blind) there are actually quite a lot of intact buildings .

Oh hey please tell me about Stalingrad, I've studied ww2 a lot.

<span id='postcolor'>

you say you have studied ww2 a lot but you say "So all the wars nowadays are fought in woods and open ground. Sorry buddy, that was 50 years ago, there is no use controlling woods or hills.

"

hmmmm

and war hasnt changed at all in the last 50 years, the tactics are still the same as they were back in ww2

<span id='postcolor'>

Been to the army or anything?

So you still use huge armored spearheads as in "blitzkrieg"?

That's the way russians tried to take over grozny for the first time, with terrible losses. On the second time they shelled it as much as they could and then sent infantry in front and tanks were used to give fire cover from behind.

WW2 was a completely stupid war because, they didn't care about casualties and used really men-wasting tactics.

[mads bahrt 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Pitcher on 7:09 pm on Dec. 20, 2001

Don't forget the islands are small, there are no big city's on small islands.

<span id='postcolor'>

Singapore - isn't that a big city on a small island?

[Black Op 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from sn1per on 8:03 am on Dec. 21, 2001

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Black Op on 12:17 am on Dec. 21, 2001

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from sn1per on 5:04 pm on Dec. 20, 2001

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Brass on 8:23 pm on Dec. 20, 2001

yeah, right. So all the wars nowadays are fought in woods and open ground. Sorry buddy, that was 50 years ago, there is no use controlling woods or hills.

Can you read? I said in my post "burnt down suburbs " and it can be understood as parts of the city. If you look at the images from Grozny during the war (and you are not blind) there are actually quite a lot of intact buildings .

Oh hey please tell me about Stalingrad, I've studied ww2 a lot.

<span id='postcolor'>

you say you have studied ww2 a lot but you say "So all the wars nowadays are fought in woods and open ground. Sorry buddy, that was 50 years ago, there is no use controlling woods or hills.

"

hmmmm

and war hasnt changed at all in the last 50 years, the tactics are still the same as they were back in ww2

<span id='postcolor'>

Been to the army or anything?

So you still use huge armored spearheads as in "blitzkrieg"?

That's the way russians tried to take over grozny for the first time, with terrible losses. On the second time they shelled it as much as they could and then sent infantry in front and tanks were used to give fire cover from behind.

WW2 was a completely stupid war because, they didn't care about casualties and used really men-wasting tactics.

<span id='postcolor'>

i was refering to you saying urban warfare didnt take place in ww2

[Ruskiesrule 0]

Can i download that map from anywhere!? Where is it!!!!

Andbody know how to place units on the ground flour of two story buildings!? I can only get them on the second floor!

[Intruder 0]

It's not available yet but if you ask the folks over at http://ndf85.free.fr/redsummer_uk/rsukframe.htm nicely

[Damage Inc 0]

I bet that city lags a lot.

[Door a jar 0]

Actually the modern war revolves around the city. The key area's to capture or hold are major road junctures, industrial centers, areas of high population, ports, airfields, and bridges. All of wich will be found in or near cities. Up until September 11th the U.S. Marine Corps main trianing influence was MOUT (Millitary Operations in Urban Terrain) and the three block war, the three block war is simply how they difine operations in Kosovo, Bosnia, Somalia, and even Afghanastan now, you have a group handing out food and medicine at point A, while at point B you are running checkpoint operations and at point C there is a limited firefight going on with dug in snipers, paramilitary, etc. all of which is taking place in or near a populated area. Modern combat today revolves around the cities, just like it did 50 years ago. As for the AI not allowing you to last long, hey it stinks, but it is realistic. Casualty estmates for an attacking force in built up terrain is 75-90 percent. Not good odds. I agree with the starting post I would like to see more close combat in Flashpoint. It can easily be done with the editor, I've been placing squads in towns defending buildings for some time. However for this to be actually enjoyable the gentleman at BIS are going to have to work on a patch that will fix the clipping problems inside the buildings. Let's face it if you start banging around inside a building you have no idea where you are going to end up right now. Of course if they do this it should solve a lot of other clipping problems involving the sandbags and barbwire. Flashppoint is a great game, I like the ease of the editor and the realism, I'll probably pass on Allied Assault and just wait for one of the WWII mods to come out. I can do whatever I want with this game. So if you want it keep asking, I'm sure BIS will here you.

-Door_a_jar