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maruk

Steam - opinions and experiences survey

Should BI make Arma 2 and/or future games Steam only?  

369 members have voted

  1. 1. Should BI make Arma 2 and/or future games Steam only?

    • Yes, make Arma 2 and/or future BI games Steam only and Steamworks enabled
      71
    • I am not sure, it depends... (please elaborate in your post)
      47
    • No, please not Steam because... (please elaborate in your post)
      251


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Steam is basically a pain in the ass.

Would be nice to be able to integrate with Steam if you so desired , but I have it , only bough one game through it (CS:S) and haven't fired it up for over a year and don;t ever plan on buying another game through it. It's too proprietary (ie ArmA2 patches).

Quit often , to play SP , Steam needs to update or you have to connect to Steam before you can play (sometimes you can just start if off in SP mode but it's unreliable).

So for the love of god , don't market primarily through Steam.

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Yes Please.

Easy to use, light, reliable, don't need a disk, has an offline mode. Already have ArmA 2, OA, and BAF on Steam. Also I like having all my games in one place, no messing around with disks, manuals and serial codes.

Edited by Blackhawk

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I want people to be able to buy future BI products only at Wal-Mart because it's such a nice shop and you can get your milk from there, too. No Wal-Mart in your country? This is as good a reason as any to start petitioning. :)

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I want people to be able to buy future BI products only at Wal-Mart because it's such a nice shop and you can get your milk from there, too. No Wal-Mart in your country? This is as good a reason as any to start petitioning. :)

Just out of curiosity, are there any places where you cannot use Steam\Steamworks (not necessarily the store) for one reason or another? Also, if it's just a matter of purchasing off of the Steam store, BI could still sell & distribute boxed copies that can be activated on Steam.

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All but 2 or 3 older games I have is Steam now....I love steam. And it allows me to talk to people in my gaming community with the overlays and what not. I find it just as easy to mod games as on DVD versions etc..

The only thing I didnt like was when I reformatted my system last month I had to re download 200GB worth of games LOL. took a few hours but wasnt that big of a deal.

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Just out of curiosity, are there any places where you cannot use Steam\Steamworks (not necessarily the store) for one reason or another? Also, if it's just a matter of purchasing off of the Steam store, BI could still sell & distribute boxed copies that can be activated on Steam.

I think I told you before that a Steam-activated boxed game is the worst kind of deal you can get. It usually doesn't have a manual, it's a slower and usually an even more expensive way to get a Steam game, and after forever binding the game to a single account, the box and the installation media becomes garbage because you can't sell it to anyone and you can install the game by downloading it.

To be frank, my Wal-Mart remark was an analogy for people who seem to think that their preferred way is the best one and nobody should be given an option to do it otherwise. And there is a soft relation between Steam's and Wal-Mart's country restriction in the form of Steam's different prices and discount campaigns for different regions. Americans get much better prices than Britons and most Euros.

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My hatred of Steam is greater than my love for BIS.

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Give me a boxed game and 500 page manual any day.

Damn I miss the good old days of a card board box the size of a shoe box and a manual bigger than an encyclopedia Falcon 4.0 comes to mind :).

I voted No, please not Steam because...

I like to flick through the manual and not have to rely on my internet to get what I all ready have payed for.

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...BI could still sell & distribute boxed copies that can be activated on Steam.
I think I told you before that a Steam-activated boxed game is the worst kind of deal you can get. It usually doesn't have a manual, it's a slower and usually an even more expensive way to get a Steam game, and after forever binding the game to a single account, the box and the installation media becomes garbage because you can't sell it to anyone and you can install the game by downloading it.

^

Not to mention shooting down the cost-savings argument(s) that nixing retail DVD distros altogether in favor of a Steam-Only option that have been floated in this topic.

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ODEN;1866035']What he says.
My hatred of Steam is greater than my love for BIS.

Agree. If its between Steam and ArmA I guess I can finally get over my armaholism and spend more time outside :D

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Voted No to Steam-only because:

1) I like to have gameboxes and read paper manuals. By seeing gameboxes in my shelf, I can somehow control not to buy too many games and get overloaded on what I want or need to play.

2) I like to sell games away if I notice I'm not playing it regularily anymore.

3) I know people who have bought tens of games from Steam just because it is so simple and they have never time to actually play them, so I do not want to get hooked in that kind bad habit.

4) I know many Steam players playing with us and they always have some problems like full patches released with 1 week delay and they often need launcher programs for something we DVD version users do not need at all.

5) I always need to tell Steam users to join server in Combined Operations state and I can't undestand why it is made so hard for them.

6) I don't like the games folder structure in my previous games I have bought and installed from Steam. I don't like the special folders where it puts savegames and other stuff by default, since I want to backup those files regularly.

7) I don't want another program (Steam launcher) I need to launch before I start to play and to eat up CPU power. There are so many already (Fraps, TrackIR, Xfire, Teamspeak3 and so on).

However if you would fix Steam version functionality AND folder structure to match DVD version 100% and include some tempting features exclusively to Steam version, like some interface to report bugs or automatically send crash dumps to you, I could re-consider my opinion.

Edited by Hanzu

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I am not sure, it depends...

  • Full Steam Compatability (Have a system like Valve games use to handle stuff like friends and join on-going games)
  • If that really helps you reach costumers and make a better game because of better selling s
  • Still have a hard copy option (through steam)

On a side note, I use A2/OA/BAF/PMC in steam, and no problems at all, I dont even launch the game through steam.

_neo_

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i voted 'no'.

i've actually come to like Steam, but i still prefer my games Steam-less, if possible.

i accept Steam games only in 2 cases: when they're Steamworks-based (meaning they need Steam to run and are not available without Steam) and when they're on sale (below Euro 10,-). i never buy new games on Steam if they are also available in non-Steam retail form.

now, i'll tell you this: if you absolutely, desperately need some form of DRM beyond a CD-Key/unlimited online activation, then go for Steam before you adopt any other DRM solution (like SecuROM limited activations, GameLauncher, StarForce, etc.). also, go for Steam before you adopt that dreaded Games for Windows Live scheme.

tl;dr: out of all DRM solutions, Steam is the most acceptable, but leave your games Steam (and DRM) free, if possible.

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No thanks. While steam is fine for many other games, I feel that arma2 is a very different beast.first up, steam will auto-patch and etc your install. While I have heard that you can disable it, i've heard far more from people saying that it does it anyway. Just look at the patch differences as well. BIS patch = a few megs. STEAM patch = hundreds of megs more. For arma 2 you really need to have control over your game folder. I'd much rather use sproket :) (which i did for getting BAF and PMC)

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No.

I want to buy a game. Boxed version is best, digital download is acceptable, too. But after the download STAY THE HELL AWAY FROM MY PC.

I dont trust Steam; they try to do too much and providing services I never even asked for. Dont need no additional client running in the back all the time, no forced patches, no overlays or whatever they think is hip and every client should have.

Actually I will jump through many hoops only to get some game I want from anywhere else before I would even consider Steam.

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Boxed version is best, digital download is acceptable, too. But after the download STAY THE HELL AWAY FROM MY PC.
This ^

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No no no! Please don't make any of your game 'Steam only'! Troubles with inability to use all this system without updates or internet connection are enough for me. Many times I was unable just to open it because of 'steam is not ready for working offline (something like that in english translation)' error message. Even more times I was unable to play HL2 and Episodes/mods without sheduled update or just offline. So I'd say the worst you can do with ArmA series is to make it 'steam only'. Personally I don't want to have one of my favorite games so dependant from internet connection.

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I voted the middle option.

I like steam and I have approx 30 purchased games from there but I still prefer my retail copy of A2/Arrowhead.

I'm just too afraid of constant server mix ups if I were to use a steam version of it.

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[x] No

I don't use Steam because I don't need its functionalities.

Moreover I prefer the hard copy/box/paper manual.

Leave the choice to the user.

Edited by Lonestar

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[x] It depends.

I own a large number of games on Steam, and for alot of games it is my prefered platform.

However I have always bought the BIS games on original rom. Anecodotally there have always been issues with BIS games on steam, which is why I have always bought them separately.

Besides I enjoy the Czeck language refresher courses every time BIS do a new release.

BIS would have to show a REAL commitment to overcoming the current issues that exist with ArmaII and Steam before I would consider moving to Steam for their software.

BarmyArmy

Edited by barmyarmy

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Dear Maruk,

I voted "It depends ..." because it depends entirely on the proposition. Since OFP days, the ArmAverse has always been a large but heavily fragmented global community. We're like an archipelago in which each island speaks a different language, incomprehensible to each other. Each time BI releases a new title, there's a golden period of vanilla, when exploring other islands is not a massive challenge involving downloads, mod installations etc. However, pretty soon we revert to being a chain of islands, each defined by its own curious mix of mods and settings. It's a shame, because whilst the totality of installed game copies may be large, as a player one rarely benefits from more than the totality of players in one's immediate group / community.

In recent years tools like Yoma and SixUpdater have gone some way to helping with mod distribution, and ArmAIILauncher and similar tools assist too. However, each time a player is asked to use a third party application, we add one more step on the journey between "I bought ArmAx" and "I can play ArmAx on a stunning array of servers." I can only observe that in areas like usability design, lengthened journeys lead to fewer and fewer completed ones as users drop off in favour of something less complex. That limits this community, and it hurts you commercially.

I wonder if focusing on Steam would allow BI to really address these issues of interoperability, such as:

  • An official, Yoma-style, distribution platform for mod teams
  • The ability for the game client to detect required mods on a server, and allow the user to intiate (or schedule) appropriate downloads
  • A launcher, building on the work of ArmAIILauncher, that allows the user to select specific combinations of addons, save profiles etc.
  • The ability to join servers via the friends list etc.

If so, I'd accept no longer having the choice of a non-Steam purchase option. However, it really hinges on the features being geared towards building bridges between the islands in our archipelago. That would be a win for the average player, and a commercial win for BI.

BTW, I'm sure you've already considered this, but given where we are in the cycle of major releases (i.e. it's now been 6+ months since OA), I suspect the majority of people left in this forum are those that are quite happy with their respective islands, technically adept and independently-minded enough to be wary of Valve's ever-expanding hold on PC gaming. So I'd be wary of setting too much store by the likely outcome of this vote, because I fear we have already lost the people who might have stayed longer, had interoperability not become a challenge. The hardcore is great, but I'm not sure the hardcore is - by itself - profitable.

Disclosure: I switched to Steam-only for ArmA2/OA/BAF/PMC when OA came out, and only experienced problems with PMC. Folk is a vanilla-only community.

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Great post Fer, and I agree that if BI does it right it could definately help improve the fragmentation within the community IMO.

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Voted no, its just another thing to worry about :)

Just my two cents

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Voted no. Steam only would shut me out of the game completely, as I won't touch that PoS client ever again. I had nothing but problems with it, and was (at the time) a resource hog Microsoft would have been proud of. I could rant on forever, but won't. Instead just search for the horror stories of Steam if you believe it's such a great service. Like anything else, everything is grand until it ain't. You can't convince a happy Steam user that the service suck, until he experiences first hand how shady they really are, and that side of their customer service.

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