fixed f-15/iran f-14

[lao fei mao 21]

I've been noticing a huge amount of disrespect against addon makers by newer community members lately... Project RACS, RKSL, ANZAC, and even this thread have all had it recently. It's not always bad stuff (like the typical, "when is release?" or, "why is it taking so long")

----I don't think such askings are bad stuff, which indicate people are caring about it. And if just beacuse some guys say some bad stuff about your work, then you become negative and quit the community, it can only prove you have a low EQ. Everything are not perfect, no one gets full positive credits. Criticism helps improve and polish a mod. Look at ACE, I bet it gets the most number of Critics, then it's the best mod.

So a good mature mod creator just do what he wants do, publish his work, accept some criticism, then polish and update, of cause, finally he will get more credits, we all respect him. Am I right? ;)

[nes4day 2]

@Lao Fei Mao

There is a difference between constructive criticism and negative comments directed at the maker, for one, the latter is insulting without cause.

But the main problem here is that people need to take easy with each other, send a PM, make a reasonable comment about the matter and be adult about it. From experience, forum is a place where words can easily lose their emotion, sometimes you make a comment with humor intended, it's possible that the other might not see it.

Also the issue about old addons, it is always important to ask for permission first, take my recently released F-22 for example, I've sent Scar e-mail as early as the beginning of last year, but I still decided to contact him again just prior to the release. The thing with redistribution of addons is not a simple matter of what "you" think it's right, I agree, most people have the right intention at heart, but that does not mean you can just take some else's work and just change it and re-release it. It's a matter of following the Forum Rules, and even more, a respect for intellectual properties.

[[frl]myke 14]

I think the the points are clear. May we stop this now and here and come back to the topic please?

Finally fixing/improving an addon is still a good bunch of work and surely also deserves a pinch of respect. Good work.

[ballistic09 241]

It's not always bad stuff (like the typical, "when is release?" or, "why is it taking so long")

----I don't think such askings are bad stuff, which indicate people are caring about it.

I think you misinterpreted my post. When I said, "It's not always bad stuff," the examples that followed were meant to be examples of things that aren't bad... Annoying at worst, but not bad.

And if just beacuse some guys say some bad stuff about your work, then you become negative and quit the community, it can only prove you have a low EQ.

Did you know I'm not even an addon maker? I test addons for them. I talk with multiple addon makers on a daily basis, and hear about their anger over certain community members lack of respect all the time. You have to understand that the only payment or motivation they get is your gratitude, and when somebody is blatantly insulting your work, it tears away the only motivation they have left. It's sad, but the negative comments almost always outweigh the positive. 99.9% of the community may be supportive of you, but it's that .1% of disrespectful people who's voices really stick with an addon maker. :mad:

Everything are not perfect, no one gets full positive credits. Criticism helps improve and polish a mod.

So you see nothing different from saying, "Hey great mod, but there's an issue with the shadow lod on the right wing," and, "wow, this mod is terrible... don't download, these guys suck at making addons?"

One is constructive criticism, the other is tearing an addon maker down based on an individuals opinion. Which would you rather have? ;)

Look at ACE, I bet it gets the most number of Critics, then it's the best mod.

*Sigh* Why does it seem like ACE is dragged into every argument these days? I'm starting to feel bad for them...

I won't disagree that ACE is a good mod (just not everybody's cup of tea), but you couldn't have picked a worse example to support your argument. Yes it has a ton of critics, and yes they also have to deal with disrespectful users from time to time, but you seem to have forgotten... sickboy left the community for a time because he was fed up with all the disrespect ACE was receiving. Even Xeno stopped developing domination due to criticism a while back as well. Sure ACE development went on, but for a while sickboy was nowhere to be found. As ACE was already public during his "leave of absence," and the ACE team is more than just sickboy, that's most likely why public development and updates continued.

Right, enough pointless internet arguing for now. Myke is right, we really should stay on topic and give some well earned gratitude...

Thanks for your hard work peans!

Any chance you could secure permissions for some work on the F-4? :cool:

Edited February 9, 2011 by Ballistic09

[peans 10]

I guess this is the internet .

I'm not gonna respond to this bs. I have something else to do to answer to people that will cry me a river about something not supported anywhere and that has been broke for two year. We never aimed any prop or anything out of this lol . I don't care just don't

You can go drown yourself in your own tear. Now this was the last time I EVER post something here.

Moderator just delete this post ...

Edited February 9, 2011 by peans

[BigMorgan 11]

The so-called "Addon Police" around here are out of control, IMO.

Don't get me wrong: the rules this community (by and large) abides by regarding creative property and attribution are both necessary and a positive influence on this game. However, when users of this forum step beyond themselves and try to act as moderators we only get fighting, flaming, and people ultimately being turned away from here.

I propose that we let the forum moderators do their job. If someone has a concern about an addon's source permissions they should raise it privately and to the people designated to enforce the rules here instead of jumping to conclusions and starting a flame war.

Imagine if the clerk at the grocery store ran up to you and screamed "HEY YOU CAN'T HAVE THAT WITHOUT PAYING FOR IT!" because you walked in with a bottle of water you purchased elsewhere: I know I would be really pissed in that situation. When you accuse someone of stealing an addon without any factual basis you're doing the same thing.

Please, mods, I know there are few of you and many of us, but consider cracking down on the self-appointed would-be moderators on this board. I hate to see new addon makers being discouraged because they are called thieves for reworking old material with full permission.

[xeno426 10]

I don't understand the serious amount of rage that a mod based on another mod generates around here. The guy fixed a broken mod that hadn't been touched by the original author two years. He gave credit to the original author, and clearly stated all he did was fix a few bugs in the configs. Where's the problem?

I came out of the Civilization IV modding community, and the differences in modding atmospheres are astounding. Mods based on other mods, or improving another's model--like adding new animations or fixing model bugs--weren't uncommon. In every case problems only arose when users didn't give proper credit to the original authors or made claim to work that wasn't their own.

I'm rather surprised nobody made a fuss about how my weapon zeroing mod has an alternative .pbo that is built to accommodate the ANZINS Weapons mod.

Edited February 10, 2011 by Xeno426
fixed stupid grammar errors

[wld427 1705]

nvm not even worth it.

Edited February 9, 2011 by wld427
changed my mind.....

[1in1class 0]

Well there is another ran off by this bs and its the same people too, he did nothing wrong and for the people who think they run the show just cause they are moding and threaten to not release cause of this then thats you option! This is an community and its rules are set and in this case was followed. Most people in this community have nothing but respect for the moders and it shows by there actions, there were no content stolen and used for an mod or so on... One mod team does not run this community!

[Spartan 163 0]

The addon fixing was fine in this case. The only problem was that the first post did not refer or had what soucy said about people working/fixing problems on his addons. Others on these forums jumped the gun and started throwing out big words like stolen and ripped off instead of a simple pm about the permissions. The fault really goes to those in the past who have modded stuff and released them with out permission. Like I said before I have lots of addons that I have fixed and modded for myself and have not released anything due to permissions. EVERY ADDON MODDER/FIXER NEEDS TO POST IF THEY GOT PERMISSION TO WORK ON AN ADDON. If they tried and could not get permission they need to ask a moderator if it is OK to release before making a post to avoid any problems. Simple solution to a big problem.

The mods are super busy. They have personal lives and other work to do instead of policing the forums 24/7. Most of the older people from the community try and help out as much as they can to ease their work. The problem that keeps coming up is a lot of the newer members are not taking the time to read the rules and follow advice. They would not have survived long back in the OFP days. The mods were super hard on those that broke the rules. Forum members are getting off easy nowadays.

Edited February 10, 2011 by PROTOTYPE 001

[Darkhorse 1-6 16]

Damn. Didn't mean to create this shit storm. Just to clarify things I was just saying that it would have been better to contact Eble, as he is a friendly guy who would have probably with offered advice or included their update in the base pbo. I didn't know Eble had given permission for modification, but even so a pm is common courtesy, especially when the author is active. (and a single, updated file is better for everybody.)

[gossamersolid 155]

I've PMed the author of this fix and pleaded him to come back and give the community a second chance.

Let's hope he does come back, new talent is always welcome!

[1in1class 0]

Yha iv PMed him also, as this was an person who was going about it the right way to fix and bring some really nice things to some old addons. All in all most did jump the gun on this guy but we know what the rules are and im sure the moders do to, just cause the person is new does not mean he/she did not understand the rules, no blam game. Think we as the community can work this type of situations out to an good thing. Think were all on the same page here so lets keep the goods going.

Hope more good comes out of this then anything. Im sure some of the people who do fix up peoples addons could get a little more respect too as long as its in the right way in which we know what is.

[eble 3]

I didn't want to get involved in this thread really but feel I have too.

I originally gave permission to fix the issues people saw in the conversions I had created, What I wanted to happen was the mods/changes to be made in the original threads, main reason being, exact credit were given to the original addon makers.

The problem with a separate thread is now we have two versions of the same addon in the open.

I'm still active just can't spend as many hours as in the past working on conversions, these addons were not 2 years old and forgotten etc, And it's up to the addon maker or someone that works on it for timelines for releases, if I didn't make any changes for 12 months then so be it, I as with everyone else that either makes addons or helps bring new content to Arma2 do it for free.

Just because the community isn't happy with the first 'beta' release doesn't mean anyone should be under pressure to make changes/fixes, it would be done when it's done etc.

Just these two addons would have over 300 hours of work on them, no joke including the original Arma1 work.

No PM was sent tho I accept in my previous post I had given permission.

This thread should be closed and the revised work transferred to the existing F15 and F14 threads, don't forget these two addons were made by different people etc.

What the community doesn't know was that just this week I had sent the MLOD's to Myke to apply fixes for the missilebox and that would have been the start of a new round of beta's.

Eble

[Spartan 163 0]

Thanks for the reply Eble. Nice to know your on top of things and work still goes on.

See a simple courtesy pm would of fixed this in first place and none of this would of happened.

[1in1class 0]

I didn't want to get involved in this thread really but feel I have too.

I originally gave permission to fix the issues people saw in the conversions I had created, What I wanted to happen was the mods/changes to be made in the original threads, main reason being, exact credit were given to the original addon makers.

The problem with a separate thread is now we have two versions of the same addon in the open.

I'm still active just can't spend as many hours as in the past working on conversions, these addons were not 2 years old and forgotten etc, And it's up to the addon maker or someone that works on it for timelines for releases, if I didn't make any changes for 12 months then so be it, I as with everyone else that either makes addons or helps bring new content to Arma2 do it for free.

Just because the community isn't happy with the first 'beta' release doesn't mean anyone should be under pressure to make changes/fixes, it would be done when it's done etc.

Just these two addons would have over 300 hours of work on them, no joke including the original Arma1 work.

No PM was sent tho I accept in my previous post I had given permission.

This thread should be closed and the revised work transferred to the existing F15 and F14 threads, don't forget these two addons were made by different people etc.

What the community doesn't know was that just this week I had sent the MLOD's to Myke to apply fixes for the missilebox and that would have been the start of a new round of beta's.

Eble

From what he has post Eble he did try to PM/contact some people, thats on what he has post i really dont know any more on that part, but look at the F22 doings and how its going about. Its going really good now right! This is the same thing and way of these addons here, but just fixes! Its the same people on here that push off people like this that would like to put some work into some addons with in mind following the rules and iv seen the same people run most of them off time and time again! Its not that the community not happy with the Addons you got that part twisted, its in more ways happy to see an fix then anything.

For your part on saying: What the community doesn't know was that just this week I had sent the MLOD's to Myke to apply fixes for the missilebox and that would have been the start of a new round of beta's. What does that have to do with this persons fix? He cant but you can caue you are working on it? I just dont understand this part right here. Is that there are two threads of this as you have gave him the ok with this as long as it stayed in that thread? Just trying to understand your part more on your Quote Eble.

Edited February 10, 2011 by 1in1class

[[aps]gnat 28]

... but look at the F22 doings and how its going about. Its going really good now right! This is the same thing and way of these addons here, but just fixes! Its the same people on here that push off people like this that would like to put some work into some addons with in mind following the rules and iv seen the same people run most of them off time and time again!

WTF !? .....

Have a look at how nes4day asked around for a bit first ..... then have a look how this thread and these addons "started"

....... notice the fucking difference?

EDIT:

Addon Police

ffs, a typical quote from all those people who haven't spent 100's of hours creating something for the community.

One minute they're agreeing with a major addon maker on a suggested super encrypted/protectionism policy for user addons, then less than a month later they want anyone able to open someone elses addon and freely re-distribute without any check with the authors.

Obvious people find consistency of story only gets in the way of a nice new addon download link ......

Hypocrites

Edited February 10, 2011 by [APS]Gnat

[1in1class 0]

Gnat;1852895']WTF !? .....

Have a look at how nes4day asked around for a bit first ..... then have a look how this thread and these addons "started"

....... notice the fucking difference?

EDIT:

ffs' date=' a typical quote from all those people who haven't spent 100's of hours creating something for the community.

One minute they're agreeing with a major addon maker on a suggested super encrypted/protectionism policy for user addons, then less than a month later they want anyone able to open someone elses addon and freely re-distribute without any check with the authors.

Obvious people find consistency of story only gets in the way of a nice new addon download link ......

Hypocrites[/quote']

Looky here wooda iv got the picture clear on how makers and the rules go, but you be one of them people on all threads that push out this bs on people who in this case GO about it in the right WAY! Yes in all ways most people do ask and put out emails so on.. this was an fix yet you came on here saying guy stole this. Get on with that bs! Gots nothing but respect for addon makers but your getting this very well twisted up.

Edited February 10, 2011 by 1in1class

[[frl]myke 14]

It seems we can't agree to stop this discussion by now in here.

[W0lle 1050]

Can we please stay on topic and stop talking about the same old stuff discussed to death in several other threads already?

While it is a good thing that people keep their eyes open with the many addon thieves we have here recently, I think things gone fubar here long time.

Peans never claimed the addon being his own work, he clearly stated in his first post who made the original and that he just fixed issues with it. OK he was wrong with the original authors not being around anymore but it's still a fact that the addon wasn't touched by the original creators since years. Yes maybe he should have asked first but honestly, if I see an addon I would like to have that is 2 years old and none of the creators seem to be active I probably would have done the same - I just would have kept it for myself and not sharing with the community.

He did and now gets bashed for trying to give something back - a very good example for new people not to participate because one wrong step and you cause a witch-hunt.

Again, he hasn't stolen anything. All he did was fixing an - from his point of view - abandoned addon.

This thread should be closed and the revised work transferred to the existing F15 and F14 threads, don't forget these two addons were made by different people etc.

What the community doesn't know was that just this week I had sent the MLOD's to Myke to apply fixes for the missilebox and that would have been the start of a new round of beta's.

I don't think it should be closed as this would give Peans the impression of we silence him for what he did. I however agree that the involved people work together on one addon. There's really no need to have 2 or 3 different F-14/F-15 addons around. One superb addon is enough. :)

[Sekra 10]

And even more so in the first post mr. peans says that its not even his fix!

included:

rktf15c.pbo

ikar_f14_ir.pbo

+bisign and bikey

fixed by : =7Cav=WOC.noorm

Also noorm revealed that 7Cav is breaking forum rule §20:

I posted it in the F14 forum ( http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=95573&page=13 ) for ONE day and removed it due to possible "Ask the original author" problems. This is an internal release for 7Cav only.

From rule §20:

The first and most fundamental rule is that you must seek permission to alter someone's work, to mirror it or use it in any way other than for personal use. No permission, no editing, no mirroring, no adding to your mod pack, no editing and sharing around your private squad, none of that is acceptable.

Also according to the rules these people get permanent bans?

Edit: looks like some of you noticed some of the same things while I was typing this...

[1in1class 0]

@peans @Eble

Working together part sounds really good, maybe you guys could get things going right on the F-15s if he is going to do some fixes im sure you could help him out in other ways and the how abouts for the addon.

[peans 10]

And even more so in the first post mr. peans says that its not even his fix!

Also noorm revealed that 7Cav is breaking forum rule §20:

From rule §20:

The first and most fundamental rule is that you must seek permission to alter someone's work, to mirror it or use it in any way other than for personal use. No permission, no editing, no mirroring, no adding to your mod pack, no editing and sharing around your private squad, none of that is acceptable.

Also according to the rules these people get permanent bans?

Edit: looks like some of you noticed some of the same things while I was typing this...

I'm gone from this forum as you can see I don't post here often. And certainly wont again.

This mod was tested and tweaked by our map making/ mod department. I knew this mod wasn't brought back to the community that's the only thing I aimed to accomplish. I don't have time to steel stuff.

Now I deleted the link. so you have won lol.

I'm not gonna repost any but anything here. that is for sure . as you can see this was one of my first post here. I was wrong if you say so. I tough the maker was gone since I didn't know eble and southy was the same person.

Also

Now I will request his get deleted

[loki 1]

thats great!... way to go.. that's 2 in the last week you have driven from the forums with your hate myke!...

there better be some suspensions handed out.. or i bet there will be a mass exodus from here..45 post of shit before a mod stepped in.. that is insane!

and for what its worth peans... that handful of asshats is not the majoirty of the community.. just those with monster ego!

[[frl]myke 14]

thats great!... way to go.. that's 2 in the last week you have driven from the forums with your hate myke!...

there better be some suspensions handed out.. or i bet there will be a mass exodus from here..45 post of shit before a mod stepped in.. that is insane!

and for what its worth peans... that handful of asshats is not the majoirty of the community.. just those with monster ego!

You better re-read the thread...i was the one who was trying to calm things down and even said that peans did nothing wrong IMHO. So better be careful with such attacks.