Egypt Protests

[bhaz 0]

Well, peaceful protest lasted a few days, and it's already out of hand. ~1500 people were injured last night, when riots broke out between two groups (pro and anti-government), while the military had orders not to intervene. The problem being that military intervention might only make things worse. One of the newsreaders quoted that President Hosni Mubarak said "(he would) rather die on Egyptian soil than go into exile", I'm not sure how accurate that quote is though. But this shit is definitely getting out of hand.

After watching the live stream last night and seeing molotovs being thrown from the roofs of buildings, crowds forming front lines and hurling rocks at each other, the Egypt Museum being set on fire; There's a big possibility this could go much further. This is getting little to no coverage over here because of cyclone Yasi.

Live stream: Al Jazeera - cameras are set up on rooftops between 4PM - 3AM Egypt time, broadcasting the protests live.

[maturin 12]

Sounds like the government bussed them in and the military let them through. I think it's Mubarak's bid to hang on until the elections.

AJ just reported tracer rounds ricocheting off the bridge. There's a tank advancing and I think I heard some sonic snaps a minute ago.

Edit: Shit, they're just took a few rounds.

Edited February 3, 2011 by maturin

[max power 21]

It's a shame about the museum. Looters and vandals broke in and destroyed some of the most ancient and precious artifacts. Why on earth would anyone do that?

[maturin 12]

It's a shame about the museum. Looters and vandals broke in and destroyed some of the most ancient and precious artifacts. Why on earth would anyone do that?

I read that the people who broke mistook the museum shop for the museum itself. The curator said "Thank God they were idiots." Only a few people found their way to the actual exhibits, but they didn't get to the gold. Then the protesters surrounded the place to guard it.

[max power 21]

Yeah, I heard that the protesters were quite horrified. I've seen some photos of the damage and I do find it hard to believe that they mistook the exhibits for parts of the gift shop... I guess anything is possible.

Also, I heard that the government has seized control of Vodafone and is using it to send texts to all of the company's subscribers regarding the times and places of pro-government rallies.

[VanhA-ICON 11]

This clearly started in the wake of Tunis protests but unlike Ben Ali, Mubarak proves out to be tougher adversary for the protesters.

They should maybe accept the promise of elections in september, but it could also be a hoax to calm things down and then go after the opposite leaders whilst the dust settles.

[vilas 477]

i hope people will win and do with Mubarak what they want

maybe than Arab people will have their own freedom (different from our sense of freedom) and back to their homeland from Europe

shame that in world there are third world dictatorships with nations where there is huge majority of very poor people and very narrow minority of very rich

middle class is something which differs third world from not third world

people do not want to be third world , people want homes, peace, safety (also economical, labour)

maybe some more countries will stand (not my probably, although we go to direction of third world and 5% of us migrated to UK, Irl etc. , over one milion Poles migrated because of poverty, lack of jobs etc. , they should back to homeland , but it requires change of rules, from pro-rich/busines/lawyers to pro-worker)

every third world dictator should end beheaded cause freedom of nation need it

if people were middle class, rich, they would not have reasons to fight

in my country at least 1/3rd is very very unsatisfied with present situation , probably in Egipt 9/10 is not satisfied with exeption of small rich group

there are always 2 reasons for most of revolutions in world : lack of freedom lack of money/economical safety and hope for such safety

Edited February 3, 2011 by vilas

[whisper 0]

Imho, only one "peacefull" way out of the mess would be anticipated elections. And even this wouldn't be so peacefull!

[maddogx 13]

Imho, only one "peacefull" way out of the mess would be anticipated elections. And even this wouldn't be so peacefull!

Assuming Mubarak really does step down and allow free elections, which I doubt.

[vilas 477]

Imho, only one "peacefull" way out of the mess would be anticipated elections. And even this wouldn't be so peacefull!

... if it will not be falsified

why elections won't be peaceful ?

because old government knows it would mean death penalty to them

so they will do anything to not be punished for previous X (20 ?) years of being in rule

give up to free election is for some of them equal to be given head under knife (cause there is no justice and belief in good if evil is not hard punished and revenged )

if someone was hurting people for X years , he cannot move "just like that"

thats why i doubt in free elections in such situation

it would move to other countries and their elites all have dirt in pocket

[concurssi 11]

I hear Mubarak said something about rather dying on Egyptian soil than going into exile. I watched an Al Jazeera news show for a couple of minutes yesterday online and the news roll said that a newspaper had quoted him as saying that.

[Tonci87 163]

Its a shame, really. Those Peacefull Protests were something wonderfull, nut now the government tryes to turn it all into a bloodbath. The Army should side with the protesters, or at least do everything to protect them. The protesters on the other hand shouldn´t give up. If the Pro Democracy movement agrees to wait until september leaders of the movement will suddenly start do disapear after everything has calmed down and the current President will continue to rule

[vilas 477]

army + protecters ?

in many countries (mostly not democratic) in army there are people who shoot to oposition, not to enemy who attacked country

in many countries in world police and army are only opression hammer against people of nation

If the Pro Democracy movement agrees to wait until september leaders of the movement will suddenly start do disapear after everything has calmed down and the current President will continue to rule

thats right

one will have heart stroke, another will have car accident, third will be killed by robbers and burglars, fourth will have car accident, fifth will move out from politics cause "someone asked his daughter will she want to play in snuff porn first and last time ", sixt will have "proposal to let alive your wife and son" etc.

waiting when something is on is worst thing for them

in my country in 1989 people were told to calm down... and in result old commie party leaders and secret police officers turned to "business, owners of manufactories, bank directors" and have now the same power, but instead of rifles and handcuffs - economical power, they own manufactures, they allow to credit something or not, they are judges etc. cause people in Poland moved in 1989 without drop of blood from communism

so called "thick line" (gruba kreska) was biggest mistake in my country after regime

"thick line philosophy, lets cross past with thick line, lets forget and forgive" was worst thing to do for nation interests

i think that Egipt should not follow our way, otherwise old regime secret police officer in new "democracy" will be "bank director who sold all for 1 dollar and moved to Banana republic, owner of shops , judge who free all and moved to Banana , officer in other city with clean CV"

some things immoral in private life are must in politics and when it comes to nation/people interest, Egipt is beginner of process of democratization of Arab world (we had no idea about Egipt behind touristic route )

Edited February 3, 2011 by vilas

[Baff1 0]

I don't think a change of government will help anything for the Egyptian people, but you can hardly blame them for wanting to try.

They are born dirt poor with no opportunities to get rich. And they die dirt poor. Going to university to learn about how other people are not dirt poor or do not die dirt poor just because they were born dirt poor, just rubs salt in the wounds.

Edited February 3, 2011 by Baff1

[vilas 477]

i disagree

cause in many third world countries being poor is not matter of individual but because government/ruler takes 90% of profit to his palace

you can spend budget of country wise and spread wealth and economical profits when you not buying gold and diamonds plated closet , am i right ?

in some countries huuuuge money go for gold and diamond toys for rulers instead of make economy grow (all those dictatorships where "general, king, president, minister" have collection of 100 Ferraris and his security army ears 10 times more than other people ever could, in communism some secret officer policemen were earning so much that noone in their family had to work, they were getting 2-3 flats including "dacha" residence, multiply it by number of secret policemen and you will get huge budget cost wasted to 2000 officers using such resources that whole city can live (having 2-3 flats was normal for many of them, while others waited 15-20 years to get bill for flat) )

can you imagine that some Stalin-era hangmans (who were killing Polish patriots in 40/50s cause some of them were not Polish from nationality ... ) had in "free Poland" retired payment of 9000 ? many ex security had retired pension ca. 5000

normal man earns 1500 (mediana today is ca 1500 to hand)

being poor is also cause of state economy direction (helps or at least allows to grow or stops you from growing)

Edited February 3, 2011 by vilas

[Baff1 0]

If you multiplied what's in the presidents palace by 100 and distributed it evenly amongst the 80 million poor people....

They would still be dirt poor.

No change.

The only difference is that they now wouldn't have a president that lives in palace either.

I can understand why poor people looking at rich people feel jealous. Feel the injustice of it, but making rich people just as poor too, that doesn't fix anything.

It just takes the poor mans mind of his depravation for a few minutes. It offers him a means of entertainment, a distraction from his problems, but it doesn't solve anything. It changes nothing for him.

Edited February 3, 2011 by Baff1

[vilas 477]

i disagree again

if you have for example 10 000 secret policemen with high pension, if president , his family, his ministers have own jet, collection of ferraris, diamong WC and golden dildo for dog's servant , you can build for that money factory of chairs and tables which will give job and hospital

in Poland some hospitals have problem because they lack 1 or 2 milions of dollars

collection of old cars owned by some dictators costs 10 times more

of course you won't help 80 milions, but:

- you can use such money more for good things - as this hospital

- maybe most important reason is to take revenge and punish someone for what he did to me

i was since childhood learned that "evil" must be punished no matter of any cost

cause otherwise good has no place on earth

so i believe that maybe it is less important if they will gain or not

more important is to punish dictator (thanx to it another will be afraid of becoming next dictator)

punishment is for me most important thing in such cases as revolution or even basic police work justice

if things will change or not - future will show

but except it there is something more important - good and evil

good must win and evil must get kick in the head

as atheist i don't believe that they will be punished in hell by satan, or others will be awarded by Jesus

but i believe we as human must do this ourselves (even if i sound like catholics)

[Rovka 14]

I do agree with Vilas here, and we do owe our problems to ourselves. Take a look at our numbers living in the world.. An estimated 6.7 billion today, and 9 billion by 2030. Already we do have problems maintaining the current sitiuation, where many become poor, or are born poor, now why would anybody wish to see a child being raised up in such a situation?

Even in our so-called rich "western world", the standards of living are declining, as more people entering our nations from abroad, mean more taxation due to overcrowding problems.. Again the numbers of people born and moving around.. People need to learn to stay in their own nation, and solve problems there! Does it help if you run away for your own problems? No it does not, and by the way, those being "poor" and end up here, are NOT poor, they can pay very expensive airline-ticket I myself cannot even afford!! So what are we talking about? Poor people have no option to move away from their dire situation.. Change has to come from within the middle-class and the rich upper-class. If it does not come from them, it won't come at all, as most people in the world are lower-class people with least amount of options, other but to pay taxes and heed the resticting laws, designed to cow them around! So for the Egyptians and Tunesians etc: Their nation; Their problem!

Whatever government comes out of this, their problem and newfound freedom of choice aswell as they fight for their right to vote, and if they vote wrong, then they owe it to themselves if shit hits the fan..

Edited February 3, 2011 by Thani '82

[maturin 12]

army + protecters ?

in many countries (mostly not democratic) in army there are people who shoot to oposition, not to enemy who attacked country

in many countries in world police and army are only opression hammer against people of nation

Egypt has an enormous army maintained by conscription. Because of this the people have a lot of respect for the military, and vice versa. This in contrast with the police, who opposed the protesters from the start and are seen as agents of repression.

The army vowed not to use violence against the protesters, and are clearly not in Mubarak's camp but neutral. It will be interesting to see how the perception of them changes now that they stood by while pro-Mubarak demonstrators and plainsclothes security forces shot at the barricades for several hours and killed those people. Now at least they are keeping the two sides two Molotov-throws apart.

[Baff1 0]

i disagree again

if you have for example 10 000 secret policemen with high pension, if president , his family, his ministers have own jet, collection of ferraris, diamong WC and golden dildo for dog's servant , you can build for that money factory of chairs and tables which will give job and hospital

in Poland some hospitals have problem because they lack 1 or 2 milions of dollars

collection of old cars owned by some dictators costs 10 times more

of course you won't help 80 milions, but:

- you can use such money more for good things - as this hospital

- maybe most important reason is to take revenge and punish someone for what he did to me

i was since childhood learned that "evil" must be punished no matter of any cost

cause otherwise good has no place on earth

so i believe that maybe it is less important if they will gain or not

more important is to punish dictator (thanx to it another will be afraid of becoming next dictator)

punishment is for me most important thing in such cases as revolution or even basic police work justice

if things will change or not - future will show

but except it there is something more important - good and evil

good must win and evil must get kick in the head

as atheist i don't believe that they will be punished in hell by satan, or others will be awarded by Jesus

but i believe we as human must do this ourselves (even if i sound like catholics)

1 or 2 million dollars funds a hospital for how long?

1 day?

In the U.K. the average hospital costs $1 million a day.

A few million sounds good when you say it, but it's the wrong sized number. Too small.

And that's the problem with Egypt. It's got millions where it could really use billions.

And while I understand that a president drivng around in fancy cars looks evil and injust...

Ultimately that's still not the problem.

Because if he had a thousand times as many cars as that and sold them all, it still wouldn't pay to build a hospital and run it for one year.

An extra day a year hospital care for one hospital in your country isn't going to make all the difference any more than it is in Egypt. The sums of money you are discussing are peanuts. Too small to make any significant difference.

A million would make a real difference to you and me, or any one person. But not to a country.

A million dollars... what is that? That is enough money to pay one $30,000 ay year wage.

That's not even an average wage here.

That's enough money to pay for a gardener for life.

So if the state is going to pay the wages of one gardener for life... how about that gardener works at the palace. For the president?

In my country the republicans use this sam argument against the Queen. Why shouldwe all pay to keep her in palaces and limo's etc. And the answer is the Queen costs us each 50 pence a year. $0.75.

And for that price we get a ruler who has a palace and fancy cars. And when Mr Bush and whoever comes to visit they get to eat there. And tourist get to go and visit there. etc etc etc.

And if anyone in my country grudges our Queen that 50p, meet me in the pub sometime and I will pay you 50p. 50p is a bloody cheap price for a world leader.

What else could we have got for that money? Some more speed cameras maybe?

Some more foreign aid to hand out?

So in my eyes we have two real problems, one is a country with not enough money to go round... and two is a load of people with very unrealistic expectations.

You know, people who've never seen a million all thinking they know the best way to spend it.

Everyone wants to be a chief and no one wants to be an indian.

And this is a problem in a place like Egypt. They all have university educations, but at the end of the day the only jobs on offer is still giving tourists camel rides on the beach.

They aren't going anywhere.

And if you change the government, the next leader will still want palaces. He will still want those cars. He will be a different person, but he will still cost the same.

Edited February 3, 2011 by Baff1

[Rovka 14]

Numbers people.. It's all about numbers here!! If we do not cut back our numbers, by having a birth-stop for atleast 50 years, then certainly nothing will change for the better.. No it WILL end up worse for the children of tomorrow.. You may be dead, but your children bear the fruits of fail!!

[walker 0]

Hi all

The situation in Egypt appears to be comming to the end game. The State TV station has started broadcasting pro democracy interviews and many former and oposition politicians as well as the reformer politicians have moved to the square.

The Army aparently last night was using its night vission to pick off pro regime snipers and have been filming the faces of the more violent pro regime attackers. This along with the gathering of video evidense by members of the crowd using their mobile phones and small video cameras makes any continued violence extremely risky for the regimes supporters.

Kind Regards walker

[Archamedes 10]

you know they are asking for donations and handouts for the unrest in Egypt. I would help, however i feel its another pyramid scheme

[maturin 12]

you know they are asking for donations and handouts for the unrest in Egypt. I would help, however i feel its another pyramid scheme

They buy Falafel, someone in Tahrir eats it. I doubt it's a pyramid scheme. If the intermediary doesn't steal it outright, it's probably going right towards basic necessities in the capital.

[Archamedes 10]

They buy Falafel, someone in Tahrir eats it. I doubt it's a pyramid scheme. If the intermediary doesn't steal it outright, it's probably going right towards basic necessities in the capital.

Joke punchline Fail lol