ARMA 2:OA beta patch 77750

[carlostex 38]

This AI tweaking is awesome, thank you BIS!!!

Now IMHO you should focus for 1 or 2 months on the visual aspect, fixing lighting bugs, LOD's, popping textures, improvement on Z-Fighting for prone position.. etc... It might give you more sales. When i come across noobs who see the game for the first time, always say they dont like Arma because of visual bugs. Unfortunately a lot of people is only interested in visuals and miss other aspects, so for the sake of your business and the beloved fans eye-candy give us some visual lovin' BIS!!!

[old_painless 182]

This beta is so full of amazing content! But I have to agree, the "send-an-AI-to-cover" needs to work for the selected units, not just one at a time.

- OP

[suma 8]

The AI now seems to prefer using trees, bushes and buildings for cover. For me the AI feels the same as it did prior to 77159... Also, AI leaders seem to have gone back to ramboing it again - charging off ahead while their team stay far behind. As far as I'm concerned the AI in 77159 was the biggest AI improvement since the release of A2; sure it needed some refining, but now it seems to have regressed back to the old style use of cover. Sorry for the rant but I'm bitterly disappointed.

To turn your "rant" into something constructive: could you create a demo mission which would show the difference? (The best demo would be one which runs on its own and I can only watch it, i.e. player not a leader - when player is a leader, then the mission needs to be accompanied with the detailed guide what player should do to seen the issue). In the situations I have tested the AI seem quite improved, but it is possible your situation is different. I am willing to check your situation as well, but for that I need to see it first.

[Stargun 10]

When i come across noobs who see the game for the first time, always say they dont like Arma because of visual bugs. Unfortunately a lot of people is only interested in visuals and miss other aspects, so for the sake of your business and the beloved fans eye-candy give us some visual lovin' BIS!!!

That's right, but the answer is simple: in a so-naturally-drawn environment like the ArmA world even a minor graphical glitch (like LOD switching, popping texture etc.) immediately becomes super-unnatural, so disturbing and distracting.

The steps taken to solve the Z-fighting is promising, but the awful LOD switching is still there. I'm currently using Win7 64 bit, GTX570 and an SSD for the system and ArmA II which bought SOLELY for the best ArmA experience possible, but the LOD switching on the buildings in Takistan is still very annoying. :(

In the last months I literally stopped playing BaF entirely because of it, and just waiting for the incoming Beta patches to check them out.

I always install the latest patch, just start up with the US showcase scenario, get in a littlebird and fly around to the nearby villages to check out the LOD switching on the trees and buildings. No AI, no mission, no real play, just a quick check.

And after those checks I always became disappointed, shutting down the game for the next weeks or next beta. I'm a little bit tired...

[fruity_rudy 16]

I have a question to the BI guys. Now that the other patch is out with TI on every gun, how do we prevent that single beta from being used on our servers, besides waiting for patch 1.58 retail?

I also do not want to disable all betas, just that one.

If ppl use this tiny "cheat" on pub servers, let 'em use it.These are the same kids, who kill a round of warfare, when they come in and hack the server..

IMPORTANT:

First of all, awesome stuff bis, and suma the new specific cover option with command cursor is ubercool.

Some ppl should test this too:

Played domination yesterday, 'cause i wanted to stresstest new ai features. So joined server, ordered some ai on barracks, took chopper with them and went to first main target(so my 1st life, and the 1st ai crew i ordered!!!!). They acted perfect, i told em to advance in formation (1,2), perfect..even the switch between 7,2 and 7,3 was awesome BUT:

i was so happy and full of satisfaction,i wasn't paying attention, so a tank shot me and my men. Back to base ordered new ai..then it started..

i went to little bird, and they moved pretty strange(crouched in combat but nobody was there), i also told em to return to formation, and they did it very slow

normally if you tell em 1,1 they come back to you, and if you press space again, you can stop them or send em to specific position,but you don't have the regroup option anymore. but after some weird walking of my squad, i was able to let em regroup again, when i pressed space(regroup available as command)..looked like one of them went out of the formation or something like that

that was very strange..i went again to that same town, same spot, and they were acting pretty strange then(covering each other, not listening to my commands)

so what i want from you guys, and plz try that out, play domination or warfare, or something where you can die and respawn and test it. also buy some ai, dismiss em, get some new ai again.

Either i'm stupid or there is something wrong.so if you die, or ai dies, or you get new ai, it's somehow broken..

I hope you know what i mean..maybe it was just an accident with mission initialization..i'm only doing this post because i think many of us only play missions with revive, dom, warfare(in general custom user made stuff)..and i really don't know how suma and co. are testing the patches, i don't think they play domination:) for testing..

Domination for example has a lot of files and scripts if you unpack the mission. Maybe this whole thing is not working together. So plz test this. If 10 guys try this out, and 10 guys say it works fine, then i'm sure i messed something up on my side..

sorry for this long story, just wanted to let you know..

thx bis for dev'ing that much

Edited January 28, 2011 by Fruity_Rudy

[-)rStrangelove 0]

I have a question to the BI guys. Now that the other patch is out with TI on every gun, how do we prevent that single beta from being used on our servers, besides waiting for patch 1.58 retail?

I also do not want to disable all betas, just that one.

If you see FF kills going up in the next weeks its because they all use TI ;)

[fabrizio_t 58]

The last beta two patches have been a major step backwards in terms of AI using cover as far as I can tell. Currently on my Takistan test mission AI led units are lying down fully exposed when under fire instead of finding cover even though it is only a matter of metres away. They don't seem to like using low walls for cover as much as they did in 77159 and when they do use a wall they just lie behind it so they can't return fire. In 77159 the AI would make good use of walls and would often kneel, fire off some shots, lie down and then repeat the process - they would also reposition themselves for a better shot.

The AI now seems to prefer using trees, bushes and buildings for cover. For me the AI feels the same as it did prior to 77159... Also, AI leaders seem to have gone back to ramboing it again - charging off ahead while their team stay far behind. As far as I'm concerned the AI in 77159 was the biggest AI improvement since the release of A2; sure it needed some refining, but now it seems to have regressed back to the old style use of cover. Sorry for the rant but I'm bitterly disappointed.

Can you provide a repro mission and / or some video footage?

[jumpinghubert 48]

I have terrible problems with that new AToC feature , no matter what level i choose (from 1 to 7) , I get weird white pixel popping all over the map (transp. edges of grass, trees, bushes). I can only get it to go away if i choose to run without any AA in the video options or without AToC alltogether.

I noticed however that there's 1 type of tree on the Takistan map that is totally unaffected by the AToC problems (no pixels popping etc..) , it looks almost like this problem has to do with certain clipmaps, maybe saved in different programs, just guessing. Anyway, for me the AtoC feature is no succes.

I also tried different settings in the NV Control panel (AA Transp. Off/Multi/Supersampling, makes no diff.).

Running GTX285 Driver 258.96 on Win 7 Pro x64

i had these white pixels using oktanes noblur addon. It was outdated. After updating it the bug was gone. I have a similar graphic card.

I hope the moody textures on grass (after a little bit firefight in towns with heavy smoke) will be fixed in the future.

P.S. great new AA feature, bis!

Edited January 28, 2011 by JumpingHubert

[Beagle 684]

To turn your "rant" into something constructive: could you create a demo mission which would show the difference? (The best demo would be one which runs on its own and I can only watch it, i.e. player not a leader - when player is a leader, then the mission needs to be accompanied with the detailed guide what player should do to seen the issue). In the situations I have tested the AI seem quite improved, but it is possible your situation is different. I am willing to check your situation as well, but for that I need to see it first.

I play Infantry squad leader in Warfare BE and Gossamer's extensively and while I really appreciate that the A.I. follows boarding oders now in danger mode it behaves more suicidal now when giving move commands...You send them in, they hold formation and move and get wiped out. The old behaviour was slower but at least the A.I. returned fire and made it to the objective. Edited January 28, 2011 by Beagle
removed the glibberish

[metalcraze 290]

jap, the AI fixes are great, no doubt.

But there are more important things to fix, in my opinion...

What fixes could possibly be more important than fixing AI (apart from bringing AA2 content to OA standards)?

[Posta 10]

My trees got scanlines and white dots. I know that the white dots are well known, but what about scanlines?

(I haven't messed around with my catalyst settings. Will try that first, then if the problem persists take some screens.)

[metalcraze 290]

I play Infanrty squad in Warfare extensivly and while i really appreaciate that the A.I. follows boardign oders now in danger mode it behaves more suicidal now when giving move commands....You send them in, they hold formation and move and get wiped out. The old way was slower but at least the A.I. returned fire.

Yes that's the downside of the new fix.

Suma I suggest you implement some kind of a "force move" command.

Like f.e. when you order your units to move somewhere (not in a vehicle) they still do that with a bounding overwatch but when f.e. you order them to move while holding, say, CTRL - they will move there like they do in this beta. You can also add force move command to that context menu which opens when you select a unit.

I think it will be the best way to do this - what do you think?

Edited January 28, 2011 by metalcraze

[Beagle 684]

Yes that's the downside of the new fix.

Suma I suggest you implement some kind of a "force move" command.

Like f.e. when you order your units to move somewhere (not in a vehicle) they still do that with a bounding overwatch but when f.e. you order them to move while holding, say, CTRL - they will move there like they do in this beta. You can also add force move command to that context menu which opens when you select a unit.

I think it will be the best way to do this - what do you think?

This downside becomes most visible if you play online against A.I. squads using the old behaviour...they move slower but are superior in combat.

Whats the point of fast movement when the only destination you go is death.

The only thing that was wrong was the boarding in combat mode, the rest of the behaviour was absolutely o.k.

I always tend to say the reports of players reporting their A.I. is not holdign formation was more to the fact that this players tend to run around the map at full speed...thats not an A.I. fault.

If you move with reasonable speed and fight when your A.I. fight you never loose them somewhere on the map.

Edited January 28, 2011 by Beagle

[andersson 285]

Yes that's the downside of the new fix.

Suma I suggest you implement some kind of a "force move" command.

Like f.e. when you order your units to move somewhere (not in a vehicle) they still do that with a bounding overwatch but when f.e. you order them to move while holding, say, CTRL - they will move there like they do in this beta. You can also add force move command to that context menu which opens when you select a unit.

I think it will be the best way to do this - what do you think?

That would be a very good solution. I like the casious AI when I'm commanding them, but that extra feature could help when I need them to hurry up (incoming arty, get away in a car, move out of a dangerous zone).

[ginger mcale 11]

Beagle i had the same "problem" yesterday in Warfare when given them a move order. But if set them to Danger mode manually they seems to do it the old way, taking care, fighting.

[WillaCHilla 10]

Yes that's the downside of the new fix.

Suma I suggest you implement some kind of a "force move" command.

Like f.e. when you order your units to move somewhere (not in a vehicle) they still do that with a bounding overwatch but when f.e. you order them to move while holding, say, CTRL - they will move there like they do in this beta. You can also add force move command to that context menu which opens when you select a unit.

I think it will be the best way to do this - what do you think?

+1

Exactly my opinion for making the new ai-behaviour even better.

Also a big 'Thanks' to BIS by me for releasing such a beta (with its big number of useful features).

Besides, a little request:

After giving us an additional feature for the graphical aspect of the game (AToC), perhaps its possible to extend the configuration of the 'postprocess effects' in future like the community asks for it since a long time?

[Alwarren 2765]

what do you think?

Just an idea, don't even know whether this will work, but have you tried to put the guys you want to move into a color team and move only their leader?

[metalcraze 290]

The only thing that was wrong was the boarding in combat mode, the rest of the behaviour was absolutely o.k.

Actually no. Some good examples of why forced move was needed is below your post.

When you desperately need your AI squadmates to retreat from the area (like if you encounter an overwhelming enemy force - which they would fight and die) or moved into a better firing position and now, not 2 minutes later when it's all over - forcing them to move ignoring everything was required.

Just an idea, don't even know whether this will work, but have you tried to put the guys you want to move into a color team and move only their leader?

Even if it works - it would be too uncomfortable to do every time you want soldiers to move with a bounding overwatch.

[4 IN 1 0]

Just my 2 cents: Instead of using the name "force moving", use the name "Move fast to";)

---------- Post added at 01:50 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:44 AM ----------

Just an idea, don't even know whether this will work, but have you tried to put the guys you want to move into a color team and move only their leader?

No it wont work, only the squad leader will move if you select only him, which is a pain in the ass really, same as if you place some unit into colour team and order the team to go somewhere, they will still stay in positions under your formation instead of bunch up with their squad leader, which is rubbish and non-sense.

[andersson 285]

Maybe OT, but I havent figured out how to use teams in arma2. It worked good and intuitive in OFP.

[Laqueesha 474]

AI leaders seem to have gone back to ramboing it again - charging off ahead while their team stay far behind.

Sorry, I couldn't resist! :D

UhGIFLWadEU

[Coffeecat 10]

After some more testing i just want to tell that the new ATC AA Setting is awesome. It would be great if we see 2! new options in the next final patch, where we can adjust the ATC settings for grass and tress seperate. maybe there is an option from low-very high for both? with AA you allways change the whole ATC of course. i can turn AA on high now with nearly no FPS loss, but if using a scope weapon it gets really bad, only on close distance.[yes you dont use scope weapons usually at close distance:D but same with zoom in first person view.

[pandur 10]

I've just checked out the lucky-number-patch and this is a massive improvement for me. The new looks is stunning, performance went up a bit, the AI is much smarter than before and the speedy-mounting is like a dream came true. Great work!!! Can't wait to get this as a final.

...the only thing I want back is that the AI doesn't run like a kamikaze sheep when given a move command. Because sometimes it's necessary to split them up. I'd support the idea earlier mentioned to make a mixture of the new and old system with some kind of extra key or so.

Great, great, great... next DLC? Bring it on. I'd support it even if it was a flying toilet armed with a gatling. ;-)

[Coffeecat 10]

Besides all the great stuff i found a major bug with the AI, do the following:

Place a USMC Fireteam on the Map

Place yourself as Squadmember, not the leader

Give the Squadleader 2 WP´s:

1. First WP in front of you without any changes

2. Secound Wp far away with FireatWill-EnageatWill, Danger, Colomne Compact, Speed Full

Play and acclerate the time, you will see that the Squadleader will deny to move on the way to the last WP after some time & only scanning the horizon. result is no more movement of the whole squad.

Make sure you set the secound wp far away and acclerate time.

i also tried the same with formation column, not column compact, where its seems like there is no bug.

would be nice if some people could test this also, cant test every formation 5x ...

Edited January 29, 2011 by Coffeecat

[pandur 10]

after some testing I got the handgun + zero reaction problem too...

placed 2 enemy opfor groups in a village (takistan/ ravanay) and engaged them playing a group of standard ksk soldiers. after some time two of my soldiers switched to their handgun and shortly after stopped doing anything. when called into formation they didn't react anymore. this bug has the potential to break any mission.

all the improvements are cool, but this bug is serious.