Improvements I believe a decent number wants

[mosh 0]

*yawn*

Still on his soapbox huh? :j:

[Ironman13 12]

Claim = to assert or maintain as a fact. Which I have not done.

I stated it was my opinion. My opinion is formed from what I see/hear from reliable sources.

@SWAT either quote me or don't bother making your own interpretations and try to have me explain why you inferred that. Only you control that.

That is right Mosh, *yawn* these guys are trying to come up with their own interpretations of what I said. It does get tiring showing knuckleheads things they just make up.

O yea, dancing bananas go for it!

[concurssi 11]

2) "As for water....First, US military infantry rarely go into the water during combat" You are making yourself sound silly. You even acknowledged you were in the Navy. We better turn all them carriers and destroyers back home, tell the sailors their time was wasted lol. O yea, don't the marines normally get deployed by the Navy? Wasn't that even the case in the title ArmA2? I mean, need I say more?

I may be dumb, but since when did Marines swim ashore?

[mosh 0]

That is right Mosh, *yawn* these guys are trying to come up with their own interpretations of what I said. It does get tiring showing knuckleheads things they just make up.

Hmmm knuckleheads who make things up... do you have a mirror handy? :j:

[TechnoTerrorist303 10]

Someone lock this thread please before we all get into trouble

[Ironman13 12]

Marines would swim ashore if there Amphibious vehicles went like 10km/hr lmao.

Correct me if I am wrong but probably in WW2 some soldiers had to swim ashore due to their landing craft dropping them off to far from the shore due to the tide/fog of war. But surely, I make this up. I am sure marine force recon or even Navy Seals get deployed from submerged subs.

Has this happened in the game yet? Surely not, that is why I said, REWORK THE WATER SYSTEM.

Listen, I am not asking for some dumb 007 crud where we shoot enemies with harpoons with snorkeling gear. As someone posted in the other thread... War is LAND, AIR, AND SEA. We have 2/3 covered, granted the air system could use some attention, at least it is included though.

If someone weighs to much then, they probably should lose some gear. But, to come to the conclusion they can only handle a pistol, lol-tastic. You could even say if soldier weigh > X then they die from drowning. But that wouldn't satisfy you guys would it... It is just totally unrealistic. Or having moving ships with working artillery/cruise missiles. Or a fully functioning carrier. All this is what addons are for right? Well, many things are engine related as someone already brought up in the other thread.

I am not saying a soldier with an MG and AT should be able to swim with all of that. Get real people.

Edited January 14, 2011 by {GSF} Ironman

[concurssi 11]

Thankfully, this isn't WW2 :)

Are you playing custom islands, or the ones that come with the game? I'm just wondering because I don't remember seeing any lakes or rivers in Takistan, Chernarus or Utes.

[suma 8]

And no, I don't think BIS supports the community to the best of it's ability. Once again, this is my opinion.

Of course we do not, but this is a kind of tautology. There is hardly any limit to the amount of support we could provide. We could focus all our efforts (all programmers, designers, artists) only to fixing bugs and polishing Arma 2 or Operation Arrowhead. However, we obviously do not do this, as we are convinced this would kill the company quite quickly (and as a result, there would be no support for the community at all quite soon). We provide a level of support which we think is sustainable long term.

---------- Post added at 16:45 ---------- Previous post was at 16:36 ----------

Correct me if I am wrong but probably in WW2 some soldiers had to swim ashore due to their landing craft dropping them off to far from the shore due to the tide/fog of war.

You may be referring to something different, but in those cases the craft has dropped soldiers to far from the shore by mistake / accident / because of adverse landing conditions, esp. on the Omaha beach, the fate of those soldiers was a lot sadder. Most of them have drowned, because the gear they had for invasion was so heavy that it made swimming completely out of question.

Edited January 14, 2011 by Suma

[Ironman13 12]

Well said Suma. :clap: That is one of the more well thought out responses I have had in the short time this post has been up. Thanks for actually thinking about a response and not taking what was said and twisting it. Figuring out what is "sustainable long term" is a challenge in and of itself.

So basically what you are saying Suma, is that 400+ people that voted no more DLC basically don't know what they are asking for. I think to a certain extent that is true. I also believe that many would love to have a polished game than a game that is never finished. I mean, to prove that point, look at how many complaints went up about the ArmA2 campaign and the enormous bugs. It was quite obvious that the deadline was more important than the quality of work put into the campaign. Many were outraged. Some didn't care. Those bugs were extremely obvious. To BIS credit they EVENTUALLY fixed them. I think it took about 2 or 3 patches. In my mind if any other game had the amount of bugs in it as that ArmA2 campaign did, we would throw it out and always refer to it as an OFP: DR disaster. Is this community not loyal? Hahahahaha. I mean BIS could sit on a toilet for an hour and whatever came out of it we would still support BIS. Just look how people jumped all over me for mentioning improvements. hahahaha.

Regarding the water system:

Yep many of them died most likely. However, today's gear is mostly made up of plastic or other lighter substances than what they had during WW2 times. So, this goes to prove the point even more-so that the water system should be reworked. At least in my head and many others.

@Concurssi: Really? I mean come on really!?!? I guess you never saw the giant bodies of water surrounding Utes or Chernarus or the river in Zargabad. Reworking the water system wouldn't only effect these islands, but all islands that have bodies of water.

Edited January 14, 2011 by {GSF} Ironman

[concurssi 11]

I'm not hating on you bro, so you don't need to get all dramatic.

What I meant was I've never seen any water besides the sea around an island, and why would you go there?

[Ironman13 12]

Why would you not go there is the question I am asking....

You would not go there because you can't do anything with the water. No ships with function, can't swim without losing gear, can't even die from it. It has nothing to offer besides being a border right now. You might as well just put a 5,000 foot wall up where islands stop. The only thing that you can do in the water is drive those silly fishing boats, I would really like to meet the guy that said, "we must have fishing boats lol" or those CCRX and the PBX or whatever the correct acronym is for them.

I just dare to dream a little I guess. Maybe you can come join me and the many others. All we are talking about are improvements.

Edited January 14, 2011 by {GSF} Ironman

[concurssi 11]

I don't care about DLC either for myself, although I think they're important for paying the wages. The only thing I really wanna see right now is weapons as versatile as they are IRL. Javelin's have two fire modes instead of just one etc.

[pandur 10]

@ironman I think it's absolutely correct to make some suggestions for further improvements, but PLEASE take into consideration what a MONSTER game we've already got. -> Compare e.g. just the content of Call of Duty to Arma2. OK COD gives you the shiny I'm-in-the-middle-of-Hollywood feeling (within its 200x200 meters maps of course), but after two days you get bored and after three days you don't touch it anymore. I have been playing Arma2 since the very first beginning and it's still so addicting (ask my arma-allergic-girlfriend).

BIS at least tries hard to give us - and all the awesome modmakers - 100% freedom.

I think ALL the things you ask for would be cool to see in the game and I too would have tons of ideas, but we can't expect them to come for free. It's a question of proportionality. What we've got so far is minimum 50 times more than you get elsewhere for your money.

Don't be offended ironman because that's really not my intention, but what do you really expect for your money? You can't simulate the whole military world, put it into a single game and sell it for 29 Euros...

[ProfTournesol 956]

The fact that the lead programmer and co-founder of the studio takes on his precious time to answer such a brilliant topic proves you right : this game and its community are poorly supported.

[Ironman13 12]

Prof thanks for contributing to the population who twisted my words.

Pandur: I never said I wanted improvements for free. Where ever you got that idea, please point it out to me. The 400+ voters I keep referring to said make an expansion instead of DLC. I would definitely like an expansion that has at least a year or more in development and is clear of most bugs. To me, what the DLC represents is meeting a time frame rather than high quality work. Expansion pack to me is more based on high quality work free of issues (within reasonable expectations).

I definitely appreciate Suma chiming in. I wont back down from my points of improvements however just because a developer comes on. Some might say that means I am cocky/arrogant. If I had weak suggestions of improvements I probably would have shut my mouth after Suma posted. However, I am not bringing up stuff that only I agree with. ****Remember, I did say I respect the devs and their work.

Some improvements I listed might not even be possible yet. I am willing to accept that. That is no reason to just give up on the idea though. Innovation is born from an idea, no matter how simple or complex. My suggestions might not even be implemented ever. At least they are known by someone who can weigh the options now. Who knows, maybe the modules are right around the bend to being MP-Dedicated compatible or a 3-D editor. The water system may be reworked in ArmA 4. I am not setting a deadline by saying that, it is just acknowledging the obvious that some things might be already in production, some might never, or some can't be produced yet due to lack of technology/tools/etc....

Edited January 14, 2011 by {GSF} Ironman

[Gunter Severloh 3949]

Improvements are important, I think BIS based on their capacity is doing fine, attention could be more specific in certain areas

Im sure but they are always patching the game, and the community itself since the beginning of OFP has always been big strong and very active.

The number and quality of addons, mods and scripts, and those things not seen much are valuable to the mission maker,

i think if it weren't for our community here this game would have surely died long ago, or dwindled into just another game out there.

But on the contrary considering the content, the structure, and the open, simulated, and sandbox environment,

the game brings to itself a possiblity where other games fail.

As far as improvements specifically I think finishing the 3d editor, and integrating it with the 2d editor would be great,

I'm not sitting and waiting for it, when and if it comes and or it is finished the I'm there.

Water, I can see and understand the argument there, I personally like water in this game, but find it rather uselss,

more of an atmospheric quality is about it, but 99% of the game is land and air.

I'd like to see the water more responsive to the player at least, more realistic in a way,

but improvement in it could open up more possibilities for other things mission related.

[SWAT_BigBear 0]

@SWAT either quote me or don't bother making your own interpretations and try to have me explain why you inferred that. Only you control that.

And no, I don't think BIS supports the community to the best of it's ability. Once again, this is my opinion.

BI= slackers? I think not.

We all have opinions, you started yet another thread for me to post mine...see how that works?

Once again, if anyone is working on more than one thing they are not putting 100% in to either. You can say certain offices put 100% in to their part but overall, it is a split of some kind.

Thus to perform @ 100%.....

You suggest they should just stop everything, close the doors and come back when everything is perfect?

And of course you avoided answering this.....

And just how many games and/or programs have you designed.. (for your arguments sake)?

Was this easier for you?

I know this game (just as all do) has bugs/issues, but I'm not going to loose sleep over them.

[avengerzx 10]

Save some concerns for the developers.

They put the bugs from the CIT at priority first, especially those bugs that really concerns overall gameplay (High Priority Bugs). So far there are thousands and thousands of bugs reported in CIT including those animation and recoil dust issue for Main Battle Tanks (One of the hardest to fix).

We would like to see more DLCs as it wouldn't really affect their fixing of bugs or adding more features to it.

---------- Post added at 11:16 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:14 AM ----------

By the way my CPU works on more than one thing on 100% except for Prime95

[loki 1]

fuking drama for your momma...

semantics should never get in the way of the fact that one is trying to ask with passion.. and that the dev's actually responded.

though.. as dwarden says...

Ideas are like ocean w/o borders!...in endless universe (of crashes,bugs,errors)...to explore :)

hoo-rah for all!

:)

can we get the new tools now.. :p

[no use for a name 0]

@No Use For A Name:

1) Did I say BIS doesn't do as much as EA or UBI? Don't bring up silly points that are meaningless. The answer remains no, BIS doesn't support us TO THE BEST OF THEIR ABILITY. I will agree that they do support us.

How is that a silly point? BIS is MANY times smaller and generates less revenue than any of those companies yet they offer 100x better support thru the bug tracker, forums, and releasing updates regularly. If that's not to the best of their ability then I don't know what is. Maybe they should call each person who bought the game personally, then ask what they want changed; would that make you happy?

2) "As for water....First, US military infantry rarely go into the water during combat" You are making yourself sound silly. You even acknowledged you were in the Navy. We better turn all them carriers and destroyers back home, tell the sailors their time was wasted lol. O yea, don't the marines normally get deployed by the Navy? Wasn't that even the case in the title ArmA2? I mean, need I say more?

You seriously don't know what you're talking about right here. First off, I was talking about adding swimming and/or diving for infantry into the game like you suggested. Let me finish that "quote" for you:

First, US military infantry rarely go into the water during combat.

I wasn't even talking about ships and watercraft WHICH ARE ALREADY IN THE GAME and work fine!!

And yes, the Navy does transport Marines over seas; but do you seriously think they all just swim to shore!? Get real man. The whole point of me mentioning the Navy was that even tho we were on the water for 75% of the time, I was actually required to be IN the water maybe 2% of it. The ONLY people who were in the water regularly were the rescue swimmers who were training. In other words, swimming is not a necessity for this game/sim!! Yes it would be nice; but I'd much rather have them focus on other issues instead of some diving features...

The only thing I am frustrated at is the way people degraded my character by mixing around my words to say, "This was my interpretation of what Ironman's intentions were." You talk about arrogant assumptions? People sue others for just that and they always win. The BIS forums is an official forum board of the company BIS. It is a way for gamers to communicate with people who are actually open minded. Otherwise, what would ever be the point of posting anything at all.

Hey buddy, the door swings both ways. Next time you quote me don't take bits and pieces of what I said and then fill in the blanks with what YOU think I meant, or just straight up bullshit. Also, I never said any of your requests were not valid; but some sure aren't necessities. You complain BIS doesn't support us "to the best of their abilities"; well then why have them waste time on things that only a FEW people will probably use (swimming, 3D editor, etc.)? Hell, I want the grenade interface fixed too! And of course better CQB; but the way you come off with your replies really makes it sound like you think you know whats best for this game than anyone else. Well guess what, opinions are like assholes; everybody's got one and they all stink.

Edited January 15, 2011 by No Use For A Name

[Ironman13 12]

@Swat: So your "BI = slackers?" was a rhetorical question not directed at anyone. You just thought you to formulate that sentence outta the air. Fair enough. As long as you are not inferring that my point was anywhere like the one you posted I am fine with that. But I am smarter than that.

Your last two questions have nothing to do with this post. They don't require an answer.

@NoUse: Unless you are willing to assume EA and UBI have the means to support there community "to the best of their ability", there is no reason to compare them to BIS. That is like me saying smoking is hazardous and you responding in jest, so is speeding, both are hazardous and saying a silly thing like that doesn't prove any point, thus being meaningless. You can't justify something by comparing it to something imperfect.

Also, how many days of training are put in to training the army and marines to swim with a basic load out? In general, not just talking about basic training. And nope, we don't have moving functional ships. We have some scripts like Mando Missiles that simulate having functional ships. However, that is a work around and probably required a lot of time on Mando's side.

[maddogx 13]

I think most of us can agree that losing weapons while swimming is annoying (correct me if I'm wrong) and that there wouldn't be many complaints in the community if this "feature" were removed.

As for the whole scuba diving, there are definitely more important things that could be added to the engine.

[concurssi 11]

As for the whole scuba diving, there are definitely more important things that could be added to the engine.

This, for me, is pretty much the thing here. I think it's more important to make what we have now work perfect, rather than add new stuff that just adds another liability for bugs.

[b00tsy 28]

4) 3D editor. Yes we have one in the game, Yes there are addons out there. It should be "noob" friendly though. Make it so we can access it from the single player mission editor. So where the button for "preview" is you can also have a button called "3D editor" and you could save it in a mission.sqm or a "blahblah.sqf". The 3D editor menu should be uniform to the 2D editor except instead of the Map in the background you are actually seeing the environment of wherever you are editing.

What I love to see is indeed a simple way to be in the 3D environment with the avatar/character or just the camera and able to walk around and simply spawn/rez the objects/troops/vehicles where you want them and being able to rotate and position it including setting height/altitude without having to script it.

I also would like to have an easy way to place roads, trees and houses. I tried the 3D map editor and it is way to difficult and time consuming to create your own map and placing roads etc. The map texture alone has given me to much headache let alone even starting to filling up the map.

There should be an easier way to do this. I know at least 1 map editor from an other game that can do that simple and effective.

I highly recommend that BI takes a look at the FarCry 3d editor where you can start with a blank map and with a bulldozer can create hills, lakes and then add trees, buildings, roads and so on. I simply LOVE that editor, Drag drop and a few click and you have a fully decorated custom map... something that would take a zillion hours with the BIS editor if you understand how to work with the editor, cos you need to spend a zillion hours reading biki pages and forum topics first to even understand the basics.

Rln1rWxsmmI

For me BIS does not have to bother with new DLC's with more troops, missions and campaigns, just provide an easy map creator and an easy 3D editor and the community will do the rest.

Edited January 15, 2011 by B00tsy
changed vid

[Ironman13 12]

Bootsy, that does look beautiful for island creation. I doubt you would get much support from this BIS forum community but I will agree, it makes island making so much more simple.

Now be prepared to get punched in the sack with these points ppl will throw at you:

1) road generator

2) vegetation generator

3) ability to import sat imagery

and probably much more I don't know.....

I already feel the hate coming to you lol, I am just warning.