PMC04: Transportation... BI, WTF were you thinking?

[OOPz 10]

Ill try not to shout too much coz once you start swearing at people.. they do tend to stop listening, but i really am not happy right now.

This is without doubt the worst thing i have ever seen in a BI game (and iv played OFP, and (i believe) every version of ArmA, so im no noob), i have had a huge amount of my time wasted on this POS mission..... and frankly, i feel patronised for the first time ever playing a BI game.

When the mission started i actually thought to myself 'sweet, i get to play with a mini-gun'.... but no, unfortunately its just 'that' crappy mounted weapon mission which turns up in every shooter eventually... only this time, really not very well done.

The biggest single problem is that you have no control over the vehicle, if you want to stop you can either hold the trigger, in which case the driver stops quickly bouncing the weapon around, or you can tap the trigger, causing him to stop more slowly, but in a more controlled manor, im not sure which is best as either way i waste about 100 rounds waiting for the vehicle to stop bouncing around.

Would it really have been 'that' tricky to hook up the AI slow/forward/fast/reverse/halt commands?

Because most of the bad guys seem to be positioned behind ridges or on the backs of hills, by the time you have waited the second or so it takes to actually stop, the bad guys will have invariably hit you a few times... but it doesnt kill you, like it should... no, it just makes the view all blurry and covered in blood... so you can no longer see said bad guys.. you know... so you can kill them.... which, really doesnt work... at all!

Well, you make us grind thru this for what feels like about half a day, then just for fun, an APC jumps out from behind a wall... but it doesnt kill you either... at least if your quick.... right?.... coz, if theres one thing we all know, a 50cal round in the chest is only a mild irritation while youre in a mounted weapon.

Oh, the hilarity!

But if that isnt irritating enough, you then have us grind for another few hours until finally... a hind pops up from behind a hill.. coz if theres one thing we all really need after we have burned off all our ammo its a f'kn helicopter at the end of the level.

So, lacking ammo to kill the thing, and having absolutely no other method to fight or avoid it... i quit and started again.

Grind grind grind... and finally back to the boss fight with enough ammo to kill it

Seriously.... its a boss fight!... what the f were you thinking, i find it hard to believe that you guys actually have that little clue as to why we play your games, but if i wanted to play this crap i would'v purchased just about any other FPS on the market, i dont expect this level of patronising, time wasting crap from BI, its simply unacceptable.

Dont get me wrong, im a huge fan, this is just about the only game out there that actually allows any form of tactical thinking, the only one which actually challenges the user to learn and keep learning.

Other than a handful of stupid but forgiveable things you have done in the past, i have nothing but faith in BI and its products, i buy things like this PMC addon without even really checking the detail of what it adds... just to show support. but if youre going to start pulling crap like this. youre simply going to loose me.

Seriously, if you have to tweak the AI so the APCs, Helis etc cant shoot straight, and if you have to set the player to have such a high damage tolerance that he can get shot in the face with numerous 762 rounds (and i suspect doing the same to the damage threshold on the hind, coz.. theres no way a real one could survive 'that' long in the firing line of a minigun)... there is a clue in there.... a clue saying DONT DO THAT, ITS MORONIC!.

Whoever designed the mission needs a good slap (at best) coz apparently they just dont understand how ArmA works, and have tried to pack something that would have been better off in call of duty (or some other patronising crap shooter) into ArmA for no apparent reason (i could forgive you right up until the point the hind showed up)

In the future, if you absolutely must include this type of thing, dont put it in a campaign, where it cant be skipped, chuck it in the scenarios where im not forced to deal with it before i can carry on.

[trooper117 10]

Didn't like this mission either I have to say.. and yes, CoD immediately sprang to mind.

I had the same thoughts on some sort of control mechanism for slowing, stopping, turning the veh etc, even if it was verbal control as in vehicle commander mode.

I hate 'gaming the game' to progress, but please, I hope we aren't going to see more of these type of missions.. as stated there are plenty of FPS games out there with bosses to master, hope the devs aren't going down that line.

it's a shame really, as some of the PMC campaign missions I thought were quite good.

[st!gar 3]

The biggest problem I have with the singleplayer portion of PMC, is that there are no Scenario -missions.

[Speedle 10]

I agree, they threw realism out of the window. The more you proceed, the more "CoDish" the game is... I bought this DLC with trust in BIS, but next time I'm going to think twice and read the impression of others...

And also: no scenarios?

Edited December 3, 2010 by Speedle

[OOPz 10]

now iv had a few beers and got on with other things, including the very entertaining tank hunting mission that follows i should say that i do stand by everything i said, but the vitriol caused by the irritation of wasted hours should probably be toned down about 50%.

no joke tho... most patronising thing ever to come out of BI, please dont do it again

[FUNKSTAR 10]

I have to agree with everything you said, I myself have all the Call of duty games which Im not going to lie I love but, I love even more ARMA2 as its a Simulator (with ACE and other great community addons) or even Vanilla is more realistic.

I have bought every game from OPFP to PMC even OPFP on the xbox, and I have loved every bit of it, but PMC has put me on a downer especialy after BAF.

The points you have brought out about the mini gun mission and the hind are spot on, this was something out of COD 3.

Then onto the next mission shooting tanks with sniper rifle!!!!!!!

COME ON!!!!! I mean yes the idea is good, the mission should have been snipe the commanders and gunners and then use an enemy ammo dump to use satchels or rpgs to take them out.

I was useing the ACE mod so I was putting 4 or 5 clips into engine blocks and nothing, I shot all cmdrs and gnrs and even the driver of the t55 then used that to blow up the other tanks but every time I jumped out the tank blew up. So I then removed all mods and laughed my head off after putting 7 or 8 rounds into the back of a t72 and watched it blow to pieces like it had been hit by a Javlin!

If the campaign had gone along the lines of the last two missions (good and bad choices)

it would have been so much better.

Please BIS if you read this people buy ARMA2 for a simulator it even says so on SPROCKET, if you are trying to go the route of a First person shooter you WILL fail with ARMA as it will never be COD or MOH

[Killerwatt 0]

Hmm... I take it you guys didnt use the UAV in this mission then?

[Rooks80 10]

I just sniped the gunners & commanders, then used satchel charges found in the SUV to take out the tanks....

felt more satisfying than shooting peas at a brick wall

[11aTony 0]

I agree that you should have control of the vehicle. But I had another problem in that mission. Asano randomly d-toured of the road for no reason several times. Lol, this was quite funny and yet very sad. He went of the road, driving extremely slow, wasting few min to get to a point where using road it would take 10s. And then, I blow up a vehicle on road. So vehicle was blocking the road and he drove right into it. Yes, he crashed. Why didnt he d-toured then? Luckily SUV was still operational and my character was whining a bit but c'mon. Mission like this need to be polished or left out. Half baked missions like that are no good.

Other thing I was excited to see was new scenarios and there are non. Sure it doesnt say there are any in description on website, sprocket or manuals, etc. I thought its in there though and havent checked in depth at all what it contains becouse anything I see from BIS I just buy. I never looked into it or "try before buy". So... yeah, I guess I should keep my eyes open next time a bit more.

I think I complited the campaign. I saw red AAN screen and then the game froze up. I shut it down. Today I wanted to replay the mission or something but all the mission I done disapeared :eek:. I have no strength to replay whole campaign at the moment, this was quite devastating.

[JSj 12]

Hmm... I take it you guys didnt use the UAV in this mission then?

What mission are you talking about? The sniping one, or the one where you man the minigun? I can't find a UAV in any of them.

Edited December 4, 2010 by Johan S

[Stytch 0]

Not only does the AI deviate from the path...but get this:

It actually continually collides with a wall until I am killed.

It has done this two me twice, in two different areas. (although they are both near one another so I suspect its placement of the waypoint).

It's making the completion of the mission impossible. Here goes attempt number three....

BIS; you are like an abusive husband, and I'm your Bitch. You beat the piss out of me, and I keep comming back...over and over and over....

I need an intervention; next time BIS comes out with a game, someone just smash my pathetic sausage fingers with a damn hammer--I'm tired of BIS bending me over.

[JSj 12]

If the AI deviates, you're not doing your job. The driver is just trying to get away from enemy fire, as long as you kill the enemy quickly and don't let them keep firing on the car, the driver will not go off the road.

[OOPz 10]

yeah, he will.

i had the same numerous times but i didnt bother to mention it as its exactly what i expect from ArmA driver AI.... it does kinda suck even on a good day

[JSj 12]

Ok, maybe "not go off the road" was the wrong thing to write. I have had the driver go slightly off road even with no enemies around sometimes, especially in the crossroads in the village, (the one with the sharp left turn). I have had him drive into a house there a couple of times.

But the big deviations, when the driver goes completely off road, that is done in response to enemy fire. Whenever I have managed to kill the enemies quickly the AI has pretty much stayed on the road all the way.

[Stytch 0]

Guess again tough guy. AI is killed, and the truck manages to find either a wall or a house.

I finally got passed that area (its the last village/town just before the HIND encounter) and my autosave puts me dead in the hinds sights...every restart the hind opens fire and I get schwacked.

I guess I'm headed for a fourth restart.

[JSj 12]

Guess again tough guy. AI is killed, and the truck manages to find either a wall or a house.

Maybe you didn't read what I wrote? I already said that I don't mean when the AI bumps into a house at the side of the road when making a difficult, sharp turn. I mean when the AI goes completely off road, driving far away from the route.

That happens when the driver is trying to get away from enemy fire.

Edited December 4, 2010 by Johan S

[Stytch 0]

Maybe you didn't read what I wrote? I already said that I don't mean when the AI bumps into a house at the side of the road when making a difficult, sharp turn. I mean when the AI goes completely off road, driving far away from the route.

That happens when the driver is trying to get away from enemy fire.

gotcha. Sorry. THought you were insinuating that i missed some AI or was slow to react. here is the situation: four soldiers appear...I react, and mow them all down. SUV moves forward (after stopping because I fired) straight into the house in front of us. then backs up, turns the wheel to correct, then drives forward....only problem is it hasn't backed up far enough to make the turn, so it keeps on backing up, and rolling forward into the house (or wall on the other occasion) multiple times...until I am killed. The AI knows enough to back up, but not far enough.

In any event, I restarted the mission the fourth time, and almost got caught with yet another save game right in front of the HIND loop, however I was able to eject from the SUV; the Hind fired at the SUV, I let it pass, then I re-boarded and moved on--taking out the Hind on its second pass. Just glad its over with, and hoping that was the only poorly scripted (IMHO) mission. No way to at least command the vehicle? I recall even the first ARMA and OFP both had the ability to command HALT; which would have made this much more enjoyable.

[JSj 12]

Ok, well I was not just replying to you, but also to the previous posters that complained about the AI going far off road and deviating. And at first, I thought that was the problem you were having too, not just that the driver was hitting a house by the road.

I have never got totally stuck like that. For me, the AI has always managed to back up and continue driving on those times when it has hit something after making that sharp turn.

[InqWiper 0]

I have to agree with the frist post. Just played through the mission. I think its bad enough to see your teammates getting shot like 15 times in 20 seconds and still live in the other mission but this just takes it way way further. If BIS is gonna go hollywood Im not gonna stick around. This was complete BS.

[Zipper5 74]

I think its bad enough to see your teammates getting shot like 15 times in 20 seconds and still live in the other mission but this just takes it way way further.

So you have Harvest Red where your team mates die and you fail the mission, you have Black Gauntlet where your team mates are made invincible when appropriate but can be noticeable, or you have OFP where your team mate might die in the mission but magically appear alive and well the next.

If you have characters important to the storyline, who are going to fight along-side you, and are necessary to survive for the next mission, which method do you want? My personal favorite is allowDamage false. ;)

[InqWiper 0]

So you have Harvest Red where your team mates die and you fail the mission, you have Black Gauntlet where your team mates are made invincible when appropriate but can be noticeable, or you have OFP where your team mate might die in the mission but magically appear alive and well the next.

If you have characters important to the storyline, who are going to fight along-side you, and are necessary to survive for the next mission, which method do you want? My personal favorite is allowDamage false. ;)

I would probably prefer them to be able to take a couple of shots in the chest since they have armoured vests and include the medical system. If they get hit too much they should die and you have to restart from last save. A combination of withstanding damage, superiour skills, savepoints and a reasonable amount of opposition. Trying to balance this would probably provide the best experience IMO. Put too much on one point and you may ruin it.

Btw, I think my SUV was actually hammered by a ZU-23 on the back of a truck in that mission and lived. Cant say for sure since the model changes when the truck catches fire.

[Malleus 0]

So you have Harvest Red where your team mates die and you fail the mission, you have Black Gauntlet where your team mates are made invincible when appropriate but can be noticeable, or you have OFP where your team mate might die in the mission but magically appear alive and well the next.

Well in HR, when your teammates got shot, they collapsed into this injured state, and you could still save them, if you patched them up in time. I think they died instantly if they took too much damage though. Still IMO this was a good system, maybe coupled with some extra damage resistance, it would be even better.

However, in the PMC campaign, the invulnerability is quite practical, since you're not squad leader, not in control - it's just makes the AI less likely to fail the mission for you.

[FUNKSTAR 10]

Hmm... I take it you guys didnt use the UAV in this mission then?

I got the UAV but could not lock onto anything or use lazer, but I managed to do that mission with no real dramas, as I saved just before the hind, I thought it was another bug as I had put nearly all my ammo into the cockpit but just as I hit "Out of ammo" it crashed and end mission.

Also to note the hind had used up all it rockets on me and I was still alive!

I just sniped the gunners & commanders, then used satchel charges found in the SUV to take out the tanks....

felt more satisfying than shooting peas at a brick wall

I went to the SUV and did not have any Satchels in there as thats what I did on my first attempt at the mission!

[hailstorm 4]

Just had a very, very painful run-though of this mission.

Driver AI, well, that really hasn't been great through any of the ArmA 2 iterations, and driver skill has been on a steady decline ever since OFP, though that could be due to multiple factors like increased environmental clutter around roads, etc. more of that in this mission, so even a radio 0-0-1 "stop", 0-0-2 "go" commands to assist with gunning would have been really appreciated.

Including the UAV was a good idea though, using thermal on that really was a lifesaver.

That hind encounter at the end really took the cake though. Not Because I didn't have enough ammo, or it was too good of a shot, but because the bastard thing did one attack pass on me and then pissed off. Well, since for some random reason whoever authored this mission made it a requirement that the damn thing has to be DESTROYED for a mission complete, my vehicle made it to the "end" (which is nowhere near the end of the map btw) and just sat there. Eventually I got bored and watched from the UAV as the hind spazzed out and crashed itself into a mountainside kilometers away from where I was, thus letting me complete the mission.

Honestly, why do we HAVE to shoot it down to finish? there are lots of possibilities as to why that can't be done by everyone who plays this mission, and strictly speaking, it's not even a mission requirement in the brief anyway, so why make things so difficult?

[JSj 12]

How do you get the UAV in this mission? All I got in the action menu is "Eject".