Predator Mod

[charon productions 10]

I'm sorry, I forgot to mention that I mean the melee attack.

So I will explain a little in steps what I mean:

1. There is squad including 10 men ( 6 of them are in loose formation, and 4 of them very close to each other ~2m)

2. Predator charge\attacks the human squad

3. He hits one of the men wich are close to each other with wirstblades (squad have lock on him, and open fire) and then he runs to another place\spot

4. and from now the situation repeats itself, predator again charge from distance spot\place the squad...

And now, my suggestion:

1. Predator runs at them, to attack them with the wristblades

2. He hits one of the humans with wristblades (then squad open fire), then he attacks another human with blades wich is standing nearby; and again he attacks with blades another closest human - then he runs to another spot\place.

3.<action repetition>

I've noticed that predator actually kills sometimes in one run 2 people.

It looks like that:

After killing first victim, squad open fire. If they will deal more damage to him (they pissed him off? ;)), he instantly attacked another person with wirstblades. After that he runs away.

Is it even possible?

-true, true ;) I remember that :)

Well, what can i say, In the numerous tests that i have made with a Predator AI attacking a human group, it turned out that the predator

took LESS damage when he constantly moved.

After killing the first soldier, he will get fired at. So until he finishes off the other 2-3 soldiers, at least 15 seconds will pass in which he will run up to a close soldier and perform the wrist attack. In that time he will take A LOT of damage from the other soldiers firing at him.

Statistically he went down much faster trying to take out a number of individuals in one attack wave than when he just follows the one by one strategy.

I understand your point, but the tests really showed that that strategy doesnt work to well with exactly how things turn out ingame.

The AI is already very calculation intense, so to add more conditions to it, will just slow things down and to evaluate enemy pair closeness and evaluate situations against retreat conditions is complex.

Also imagine a 3 player MP team situation in close formation against enemy predator AI, if he can kill all 3 players within seconds there is gonna be hard feelings for those players hehe.

Edited November 24, 2010 by Charon Productions

[e0s888 10]

Well, what can i say, In the numerous tests that i have made with a Predator AI attacking a human group, it turned out that the predator

took LESS damage when he constantly moved.

After killing the first soldier, he will get fired at. So until he finishes off the other 2-3 soldiers, at least 15 seconds will pass in which he will run up to a close soldier and perform the wrist attack. In that time he will take A LOT of damage from the other soldiers firing at him.

Statistically he went down much faster trying to take out a number of individuals in one attack wave than when he just follows the one by one strategy.

I understand your point, but the tests really showed that that strategy doesnt work to well with exactly how things turn out ingame.

The AI is already very calculation intense, so to add more conditions to it, will just slow things down and to evaluate enemy pair closeness and evaluate situations against retreat conditions is complex.

Hehe ok I see now,

it tells everything: "After killing the first soldier, he will get fired at. So until he finishes off the other 2-3 soldiers, at least 15 seconds will pass in which he will run up to a close soldier and perform the wrist attack. In that time he will take A LOT of damage from the other soldiers firing at him. Statistically he went down much faster trying to take out a number of individuals in one attack wave than when he just follows the one by one strategy."

Also imagine a 3 player MP team situation in close formation against enemy predator AI, if he can kill all 3 players within seconds there is gonna be hard feelings for those players hehe.

Hehe the command "STICK TOGETHER TEAM" would be an catastrophy :D

Thanks a lot for reply and information :)

Edited November 24, 2010 by e0s888

[Cookieeater 10]

Do you think it would be best for the predator not to attack as often but stalk his prey? The predator seems to be a little bit too kamikaze running up and wristblading people.

Also the Chakra disc aims a little bit below where your aiming and the view moves up.

Edited November 25, 2010 by Cookieeater

[charon productions 10]

Do you think it would be best for the predator not to attack as often but stalk his prey? The predator seems to be a little bit too kamikaze running up and wristblading people.

Also the Chakra disc aims a little bit below where your aiming and the view moves up.

It reduces the complexity of the predator AI a lot if he keeps being offensive.

If he stalks then many new cases have to be added, such as what happens if he gets attacked while stalking and so forth.

Some players might also get bored to not see the predator and having to wait 10 minutes for him to attack again.

The chakra disc aim and flight behaviour is still a bit off and the view moving up is due to the throwing animation which i cannot hack into to change that.

[HateDread 13]

Charon, is there anything else you would like me to test? I can provide the reproduction missions of the various bugs and problems I have found, involving vehicles, etc, so you can more effectively fix them.

It's up to you, man - I'm happy to help.

[charon productions 10]

Charon, is there anything else you would like me to test? I can provide the reproduction missions of the various bugs and problems I have found, involving vehicles, etc, so you can more effectively fix them.

It's up to you, man - I'm happy to help.

Sure feel free to send me what you have.

I adapted the FSMs now, so that if there is any manned vehicle closer than 200 meters to the predator, he will

realize the necessity to conceal himself and cloak thereby making it impossible for that vehicle to pursue as easily as before. That way he does not have to fight the vehicle and continue with his mission.

Edited November 25, 2010 by Charon Productions

[HateDread 13]

I'll throw the missions together asap, most probably either late tonight, or tomorrow.

About your change - what if the predator is attacking infantry WITH vehicles, like you see in the movies (any movies, really) - the infantry move in with tanks, hummers, etc, alongside them. Would this make the predator do nothing? The vehicles engaging the predator is not the problem, it's the way it's working the other way around, when the predator attacks a vehicle - either he doesn't, such as against a Stryker, or he does, and kills everyone, such as an M1A2 TUSK.

[katipo66 94]

These + Namalsk = great atmosphere :)

I do have one issue.. they seem to really slow down my init on mission start up? for example DAC and BIS_fnc_infoText crawl to a stand still with 6+ predators?

[TechnoTerrorist303 10]

Some players might also get bored to not see the predator and having to wait 10 minutes for him to attack again.

Surely not, isn't that what the "real" Predator would be like anyway?

[HateDread 13]

When a Predator Youngling is placed, I receive this error on mission start-up:

Cannot load texture babe_pred\data\pred_body.paa

EDIT:

Surely not, isn't that what the "real" Predator would be like anyway?

Actually, this gives me an idea... would it be possible to make a predator class that does indeed stalk for most of the time? At present, a single predator elder, for example, will waste a squad of troops very quickly, making a COOP mission rather short, and frustrating - BANG and you're out, without seeing the cloaked bastard, especially without AI shooting them too.

Ideally, the special predator I am talking about would, in-fact, act like you described; in a 'boring' way for the player, stalking for some time (obviously not ten minutes - could this be configured? Module perhaps? :p ).

This, plus the vehicle repro missions I will post up tomorrow (and any fixes they may result in), would greatly enhance long-term playability and scenario versatility.

Hope this helps.

Edited November 25, 2010 by HateDread

[Ripsipiirakka 10]

Hey charon how about making some aliens to hunt for?

Hehe would go perfectly with the Alien's APC and Colonial Marines which Vilas made for Arma 1-2

Also frigging awesome job on the predators, they are done really well. When alpha stage looks this good i can't wait to see the beta predators :D

Edited November 26, 2010 by Ripsipiirakka

[charon productions 10]

When a Predator Youngling is placed, I receive this error on mission start-up:

Cannot load texture babe_pred\data\pred_body.paa

EDIT:

Actually, this gives me an idea... would it be possible to make a predator class that does indeed stalk for most of the time? At present, a single predator elder, for example, will waste a squad of troops very quickly, making a COOP mission rather short, and frustrating - BANG and you're out, without seeing the cloaked bastard, especially without AI shooting them too.

Ideally, the special predator I am talking about would, in-fact, act like you described; in a 'boring' way for the player, stalking for some time (obviously not ten minutes - could this be configured? Module perhaps? :p ).

This, plus the vehicle repro missions I will post up tomorrow (and any fixes they may result in), would greatly enhance long-term playability and scenario versatility.

Hope this helps.

As i said that would enormously increase the complexity of the AI. Because stalking is a couple of more FSM blocks.

I will give it a try though.

The question is just. "What exactly does a stalking predator do?"

He moves away from the targetted group significantly, like 500 meters?

Then (in case the group moves/runs/escapes/or goes after him) he stays away in that distance for

a configurable time window (setvariable) and then attacks again?

Tried to get a shoulder-placed cannon to work yesterday, but it is impossible. Attachto, does not update the memory points position, when the character moves and proxies are non-AI vehicles.

Arma engine doesnt allow this in any way, too bad.

---------- Post added at 04:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:21 PM ----------

These + Namalsk = great atmosphere :)

I do have one issue.. they seem to really slow down my init on mission start up? for example DAC and BIS_fnc_infoText crawl to a stand still with 6+ predators?

DAC is very script intense, so are the predators.

The predator mod runs about a 100 scripts !

Such an AI is very demanding, together with BIS script execution limit,

no wonder things go to a crawl.

I recommend no more than 3 predators.

Or maybe try spawning the first predator AFTER the DAC has initialized, if that is an option for you.

Edited November 25, 2010 by Charon Productions

[Raj 0]

very nice Charon Productions...they are awesome and very hard to kill:D:D

how can i disable the AI from cloacking?

Many thanks for the release

[charon productions 10]

very nice Charon Productions...they are awesome and very hard to kill:D:D

how can i disable the AI from cloacking?

Many thanks for the release

Only way is a hack, because cloaking is part of the strategy:

_predator setVariable ["CHN_PREDCLOAKDEVSTATE","DAMAGED"];

[Devil Dogs SF 13]

About the stalking, you could make the AI Predator (If possible, of course) stand nearby the units and perhaps taunt or make his eyes flash green like in the first two movies. He could have perhaps a 40%-65% chance of attacking with each encounter, and if he is heavily out numbered or out gunned, could flee and come back again. Maybe make the Predator take some shots to just scare the humans, but not kill, just lower his accuracy with ranged weapons every now and again.

If that could be possible it would be very close to how the Predator acts in the movies. Having him instantly attack humans makes the game end very quickly.

[BD1 0]

I am sooooooooooooooooooo glad this mod is out! I created a Predator style mission a while back...but had no predator in it!! Now......muhahhahaha Great job!

[das attorney 858]

make his eyes flash green like in the first two movies

That would be really good for PVP/Co-Op. If there was an additional "Taunt" option that makes the Predator's eyes flash green*, the Predator could do a cheeky "reveal" before he Plasmacasts/stabs the humans.

Yes, it seems illogical that human Predator players would give away their position, but there's a couple of good reasons:

1) There is more than one Predator and by "giving the green eye", all of the opposing players would be totally distracted from the position of the other Predator player(s).

2) Some uber 1337 Predator player would like to be cheeky before killing his quarry.

Just a thought :)

* = "Those eyes, they... they disappeared"

Edited November 26, 2010 by Das Attorney

[HateDread 13]

Another debug error terrified me...

'Independent' said AFTER HEAL HUNTING; I thought the predator was talking to me.

I'm trying to get the repro missions to work - it seems the predators DON'T engage the tanks with plasma, either, it's just they got in the way when the preds were shooting at infantry... maybe.

EDIT: And anyway, feel free to send through anything to test, such as new stalking behaviour, etc. I also had some thoughts on the vehicle scenario, but you know more about this mod than I do, obviously :p

EDIT#2:

Confirmed the predators DO engage cars. Repro. mission coming later.

Wrote this up before. Thoughts?

Do the predators target the crew of a vehicle, or the vehicle as a whole? (As of recently, I think they DO NOT target armour at all, only hitting it by accident, but will attempt to cut/stab/slice a car, possibly...)

The eventhandlers for plasma contact are passed on to all the crew, who die instantly. Is it possible to have an immunity variable that is auto-assigned to armoured vehicles, for example, and/or configurable either in a unit's init field, or by a script/init.sqf? Actually, in that sense, we would be able to assign such immunity to whatever units we wanted, if that were needed by a mission maker.

If this is done, damage must be dealt to the tank, which is different, of course, to your approach, which has a minimal damage output (for understandable, explained reasons). Is setdamage too basic? What if it was conditioned/compared against armour values, etc, like how AT rounds are handled? I know that's a lot of extra scripting, but I am trying to think of ideas whilst keeping the limitations in mind.

Edited November 26, 2010 by HateDread

[Raj 0]

hi Charon Productions, the code does not work, the AI still cloacks..:(

Only way is a hack, because cloaking is part of the strategy:

Quote:

_predator setVariable ["CHN_PREDCLOAKDEVSTATE","DAMAGED"];

[vilas 477]

great mod , really unique :)

if you want my MLODs and improve my pack , rework it - please give me a signal and i will support you :)

[charon productions 10]

hi Charon Productions, the code does not work, the AI still cloacks..:(

You MUST issue the command AFTER the predator is initialized.

I would say 6-8 seconds after he is spawned, because the init-script sets

that value to "OK".

[HateDread 13]

Another debug error terrified me...

'Independent' said AFTER HEAL HUNTING; I thought the predator was talking to me.

I'm trying to get the repro missions to work - it seems the predators DON'T engage the tanks with plasma, either, it's just they got in the way when the preds were shooting at infantry... maybe.

EDIT: And anyway, feel free to send through anything to test, such as new stalking behaviour, etc. I also had some thoughts on the vehicle scenario, but you know more about this mod than I do, obviously :p

EDIT#2:

Confirmed the predators DO engage cars. Repro. mission coming later.

Wrote this up before. Thoughts?

Do the predators target the crew of a vehicle, or the vehicle as a whole? (As of recently, I think they DO NOT target armour at all, only hitting it by accident, but will attempt to cut/stab/slice a car, possibly...)

The eventhandlers for plasma contact are passed on to all the crew, who die instantly. Is it possible to have an immunity variable that is auto-assigned to armoured vehicles, for example, and/or configurable either in a unit's init field, or by a script/init.sqf? Actually, in that sense, we would be able to assign such immunity to whatever units we wanted, if that were needed by a mission maker.

If this is done, damage must be dealt to the tank, which is different, of course, to your approach, which has a minimal damage output (for understandable, explained reasons). Is setdamage too basic? What if it was conditioned/compared against armour values, etc, like how AT rounds are handled? I know that's a lot of extra scripting, but I am trying to think of ideas whilst keeping the limitations in mind.

Okay, I have some working repro missions. The first is of a weird occurrence where the predators won't attack (apart from wrist-blades), even though there are Pred Soldiers present, and the AI humans don't react to their squad mates' deaths.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=ZY4K1BT1

The second is of the effects against a car's occupants. Make sure to stay separate from the infantry group to verify the fire is actually targeted at the car. Best is to use the commanding view to observe the infantry, on x4 speed, and wait untill you get shot by a predator. May take a while.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=RF773HWC

Hope these can lead to something!

[charon productions 10]

Okay, I have some working repro missions. The first is of a weird occurrence where the predators won't attack (apart from wrist-blades), even though there are Pred Soldiers present, and the AI humans don't react to their squad mates' deaths.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=ZY4K1BT1

The second is of the effects against a car's occupants. Make sure to stay separate from the infantry group to verify the fire is actually targeted at the car. Best is to use the commanding view to observe the infantry, on x4 speed, and wait untill you get shot by a predator. May take a while.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=RF773HWC

Hope these can lead to something!

Okay thanks,

concerning your first mission.

You have to set independents are friendly to NOBODY for the humans to fire at predators. Its like with the undead mod. Setting this by script commands will only have them attack half-heartedly, its a BIS bug (might have been fixed with OA though, i dunno about that). Must be done in the editor.

While i played it the Predator soldier did fire some plasmacaster shots, but the AI using that weapon ranged

is a nasty issue. As i explained the damage is too high to make him just blast away with it.

The2nd mission i cannot load, missing :

"fdf_isle1_a","bd_tracer",

EDIT: Okay i hacked it and removed the addons in the mission.sqm

Yeah its a 1-shot kill inside the car, without the car being damaged.

I fixed the damage EH now, so that not only the crew gets killed by one shot.

I will now implement an armor value dependent damage increase for vehicles

when they are hit with plasmacaster ammo.

So an Abrams would be destroyed after 4 plasmacaster ammo impacts?

A Hummer/UAZ with 1 shot?

EDIT2: Okay it works well with cars and choppers now. But tanks wont be attacked because the

predatorAI knows that the plasmacasters real damage could never damage the tank.

Human predator players can take down a tank with 4 shots, its just the AI doesnt.

So i dont know how to tackle that.

Edited November 27, 2010 by Charon Productions

[HateDread 13]

Thank you.

And of course... God I am stupid. I have been wondering why it's been screwing up whenever I make a new mission, but the old ones worked fine! That answers it!

And thank you for the changes.

Them not firing at armour is still an issue, as you said. Is it possible to 'target' the 'crew', so that the predator thinks it is engaging a player, OR creating a fake car/infantry target in place of the tank so it engages as it would a car/soldier?

[charon productions 10]

great mod , really unique :)

if you want my MLODs and improve my pack , rework it - please give me a signal and i will support you :)

I am pretty busy with the predators and aliens, but maybe after that i indeed had some ideas for colonial marines gameplay. Thanks for the kind offer.

---------- Post added at 08:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:10 AM ----------

Thank you.

And of course... God I am stupid. I have been wondering why it's been screwing up whenever I make a new mission, but the old ones worked fine! That answers it!

And thank you for the changes.

Them not firing at armour is still an issue, as you said. Is it possible to 'target' the 'crew', so that the predator thinks it is engaging a player, OR creating a fake car/infantry target in place of the tank so it engages as it would a car/soldier?

It would require a lot of tweaking for only a minor issue. Effort/yield relation is way out of proportion then.

If you use invisible targets, then every other enemy for instance OPFOR soldiers will also fire their machineguns at the tank.

And you cant just target the crew.