Tank "dead ahead" and other stupidity.

[NoRailgunner 0]

The AI gunner fire at targets by direct order from commander and/or on his own. Just make a simple test on Desert/Utes eg tank vs tank! :)

My main gunner NEVER fires...I have to do it for him. Something is not right about that. (yes, I've tried "engage at will" or "engage"...both have the same effect...nothing. My machine-gunner on the other hand is fairly good at shooting.

Do you order the gunner to use the main gun or is he on the coax MG?

Trying to navigate the forest with your main gun swinging from side to side is nuts.

Since when tanks have to drive through woods? Would be good if tracks and electronics/sensors could be damaged too...

ONE tap on the left key and I'm facing 90deg's to the left and vice versa.

Do you know how long it takes for an tank to turn the turret?

Place yourself as team or group leader/commander and you can order your AI mates from any position/seat. If you are only a driver/gunner in a 3 men crew - you can't command the tank.

[wraith_v 11]

okay, this is probably a stupid question and I haven't had time to read every post but

can't you just select nearest target > order fire from the commanders seat with ai gunner & driver

e.g.

'12:00 enemy tank'

'tank appears on radar'

*press next target button*

'target tank 12:00'

*wait for gunner to acquire target*

*press order fire button*

'fire'

*main gun fires*

*target destroyed*

That's the way I remember doing it in OFP and arma, arma made it a little different by adding shift + click as the 'order fire' command. I'm pretty sure this worked in arrowhead on the tank convoy mission

Edited November 18, 2010 by Wraith_V

[Otterbear 10]

OK, so I may have jumped the gun here.

I didn't realize how realistic this game was.

If I have figured it out a bit now...I (even if I'm the driver), have to TELL the gunner to fire. Apparently the guy in the commanders seat just looks for targets.:(

Even after he says "ENEMY APC, 6:00" the gunner still isn't freed to fire, until I, (in the driver's seat), tell him to. I will test this some more...I hope his aim is good.

More in a few.

Thanks for the insights everyone.:)

[CarlGustaffa 3]

Do you know how long it takes for an tank to turn the turret?

Problem is the turret direction isn't updated properly. Watch in 3rd person - turret is in one direction. Switch to gunner, and turret is immediately somewhere else. Operate a HMMWV M2 CROWS solo with no 3rd person, and you spend a lot of time figuring out where the hell the M2 is actually pointing. Especially bad in lousy light conditions at night. I've actually had to exit the vehicle, light it up with my gun mounted flashlight to figure it out.

If I can say "turret was pointing ahead last time I used it, therefore it should be pointing in that direction when I enter gunner again", then I'll agree with proper turret speeds as well.

[wraith_v 11]

If I have figured it out a bit now...I (even if I'm the driver), have to TELL the gunner to fire. Apparently the guy in the commanders seat just looks for targets.

Even after he says "ENEMY APC, 6:00" the gunner still isn't freed to fire, until I, (in the driver's seat), tell him to. I will test this some more...I hope his aim is good.

Yes thats right, maybe they didn't explain it in the tutorials properly.

i guess it is good because it means that the gunner doesn't waste rounds on infantry or fire while the gun isn't on target

shooting in OFP was very easy as you could see where the main gun was aimed (little white dot), but its a little harder in now that that has been removed so just look where the gunner is aiming the gun and if it looks like its on target tell him to fire (might be visible on lower difficulties)

Apparently the guy in the commanders seat just looks for targets.

yes the commander has a radar which shows targets, he then relays the target information to the gunner (target tank 2:00) and movement to the driver (move to x y), the commanders turret also has a very high zoom range and turns the fastest i believe.

edit: you'll have to tell the gunner to fire each time you want to shoot something with the main gun, while the coaxial machine gun is toggle-able (between fire at will - fire, and hold fire - cease fire) the gunner engages any targets that have been revealed

So if you are the commander you should be constantly searching for enemy infantry and spotting them (default rightmouse) so your gunner can shoot them, ai will only attack targets that have been revealed '12:00 enemy infantry'

Edited November 18, 2010 by Wraith_V

[rory_pamphilon 16]

If you want my two cents, go and buy yourself a xbox 360 controller for windows.

This has everything pre-configured and is so much easier than mouse & keyboard for driving & flying.

I still use mouse & keyboard for infantry combat as u simply can't replicate the accuracy of a mouse with a joypad but as soon as I jump in a tank/jeep/APC/chopper/plane I use the controller.

You don't even need to switch seats, I sit in the drivers seat of the tank & set AI to fire at will & danger mode & then as soon as the AI call out that a tank is spotted I press the left stick in (same as Tab) both gunner & commander swivel to lock onto it which takes one second & then press right trigger (fire) & 9 times out of ten score a direct hit before the other tank has even spotted me. If you accidently lock onto the wrong target just keep tapping left stick in and the gunner cycles through all spotted targets, locking onto each one in turn. Works best when shooting tanks/jeeps etc but iv also taken out choppers with the main gun this way. If it's just troops Im faced with I just tap yellow button to switch to coax & let both com & gunner tear apart troops with machine guns.

Honestly if u want ease of use get an xbox controller, makes it so much less stressful in combat situations. Only time I ever need to switch seats is if the AI don't spot something which normally happens @ either extremely long or extremely close ranges, then just use dpad, switch to gunner, aim & fire, then back to driver seat. I never have to use commander seat at all.

Giv it a try, u won't be dissapointed.

[Otterbear 10]

If you want my two cents, go and buy yourself a xbox 360 controller for windows.

This has everything pre-configured and is so much easier than mouse & keyboard for driving & flying.

I still use mouse & keyboard for infantry combat as u simply can't replicate the accuracy of a mouse with a joypad but as soon as I jump in a tank/jeep/APC/chopper/plane I use the controller.

You don't even need to switch seats, I sit in the drivers seat of the tank & set AI to fire at will & danger mode & then as soon as the AI call out that a tank is spotted I press the left stick in (same as Tab) both gunner & commander swivel to lock onto it which takes one second & then press right trigger (fire) & 9 times out of ten score a direct hit before the other tank has even spotted me. If you accidently lock onto the wrong target just keep tapping left stick in and the gunner cycles through all spotted targets, locking onto each one in turn. Works best when shooting tanks/jeeps etc but iv also taken out choppers with the main gun this way. If it's just troops Im faced with I just tap yellow button to switch to coax & let both com & gunner tear apart troops with machine guns.

Honestly if u want ease of use get an xbox controller, makes it so much less stressful in combat situations. Only time I ever need to switch seats is if the AI don't spot something which normally happens @ either extremely long or extremely close ranges, then just use dpad, switch to gunner, aim & fire, then back to driver seat. I never have to use commander seat at all.

Giv it a try, u won't be dissapointed.

Thanks rory_pamphilon,

I just may have to give that a try. I need to get a new Wheel and pedals combo anyway for my other game.

Does setting your crew to "danger" cause the main-gun to swivel 360deg's all the time. I usually just give my crew the "engage" or "engage at will" command and tell ONLY the "Commander" and "Machine-gunner" to "scan horizon". Otherwise, driving through towns and trees becomes a major pain...or a whole lot of destruction. (not good I would think, if trying to evade say a helicopter or plane.)

---------- Post added at 07:16 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:09 AM ----------

Third person view isn't realistic anyway.

Yes, quite right. However, neither are any of the "head in" views. This is why the developers claim that they added the 3rd person view, because in reality the driver can see more then the game can portray, and the same goes for every other view.

So, the developers decided to add the 3rd person view...Great. However the view doesn't "stick" it moves all over as you drive or walk. This isn't an improvement but a major distraction. If the view would stay were you have set it...permanently...or until you change it...then it would in fact accomplish both realism and ease of use. For the developers. Setting "no-clip" on the camera, or something of that nature will keep the terrain from "knocking" the camera all over the place.

---------- Post added at 07:21 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:16 AM ----------

Well there is your Problem. The commander is not supposed to drive the Tank!

When you are the commander, then its up to you to choose targets for your gunner, not to drive that tank. If you want to drive, then make a mission in the editor and choose Player as driver for your Tank. Your guys will then engage enemy tanks at their own

Thanks for the feedback Tonci87,

In a perfect world, you would be entirely correct. I would love to live in that world. In the GAME, if you tell your driver to move to a point on the map...he bulldozes and meanders around at a snails pace, knocking over trees, buildings and trashcans...Real STEALTH mode...and takes forever for him to get there.

So as nice as that option sounds on paper...its not that great for me in practice.

I would like to take you up on the ACE assistance offer too.

---------- Post added at 07:28 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:21 AM ----------

Otterbear sometimes you have to look everywhere, try things out till they fit and practice more. As commander you are responsible for the crew and the tank. You may change the key "swap gunner" in controller options to gain a little bit more control over the AI gunner. ;)

hint for beginners: don't order the AI in vehicles to "scan horizon" until you know how to stop them or to look to a certain point/area. Learn step-by-step with only few enemies around.

Good point, I guess I created my scenario a little differently.

For instance at first, I created a small fire team and had THEM enter an empty tank. (still had problems),

So, I created a team of Crewmen and tried that ...(still, the main gunner refuses to engage targets.)

I guess, my only other option is to create a "crewed" tank and set myself up as the commander...but this raises a whole host of maneuverability, and evasion tactic problems, because of a weak AI driver...and adds multiple steps to dealing with an active enemy. (basically I end up dead.)

Tying to make the player the "driver" leads to a host of issues that I haven't figured out at the moment...like when your commander says "come to my pos"...Wha?, your in the tank stupid! so, I'm still confused as to how to follow his orders ect.

Great point on "scanning the horizon". I still haven't figured out how to get them to STOP. :D

---------- Post added at 07:58 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:28 AM ----------

The AI gunner fire at targets by direct order from commander and/or on his own. Just make a simple test on Desert/Utes eg tank vs tank! :)

OK, I'll give that a go. thanks.

Do you order the gunner to use the main gun or is he on the coax MG?

I have a full complement of crew. Do I NEED to tell someone to operate the main-gun?

Since when tanks have to drive through woods? Would be good if tracks and electronics/sensors could be damaged too...

Yes, they do. If your being hunted or have been located by air assets...you had better find cover...somewhere.

Do you know how long it takes for an tank to turn the turret?

Yea.

Place yourself as team or group leader/commander and you can order your AI mates from any position/seat. If you are only a driver/gunner in a 3 men crew - you can't command the tank.

Good point, I'm pretty sure I'm the commander by default. But, I will see ...wait, ...If I start from outside the tank...I cannot designate myself as "tank commander"...can I?

---------- Post added at 08:08 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:58 AM ----------

Problem is the turret direction isn't updated properly. Watch in 3rd person - turret is in one direction. Switch to gunner, and turret is immediately somewhere else. Operate a HMMWV M2 CROWS solo with no 3rd person, and you spend a lot of time figuring out where the hell the M2 is actually pointing. Especially bad in lousy light conditions at night. I've actually had to exit the vehicle, light it up with my gun mounted flashlight to figure it out.

If I can say "turret was pointing ahead last time I used it, therefore it should be pointing in that direction when I enter gunner again", then I'll agree with proper turret speeds as well.

I've noticed this too...so when I as driver, hear of an enemy vehicle nearby, I jump to the gun sights (cuz, he's just taking up space), and my view is totally different then what I thought, buy the looks, it should be. So not only is my gunner useless when it comes to shooting...but now he even leaves me staring into space in the wrong direction when I do decide to intervene.

Edited November 18, 2010 by Otterbear

[wraith_v 11]

I have a full complement of crew. Do I NEED to tell someone to operate the main-gun?

he means which weapon are you instructing the gunner to use, the gunner obviously wont fire the main gun if you tell him to use the coxial MG, which is the default weapon selected, press ctrl+f to change gunner weapon (you'll hear the guy say 'cannon' or 'machine gun'

Good point, I'm pretty sure I'm the commander by default. But, I will see ...wait, ...If I start from outside the tank...I cannot designate myself as "tank commander"...can I?

You can just place an empty tank with you and some guys in the mission editor, make yourself the leader and then when in game order them to enter the tank then get in yourself as commander.

this also can be a little annoying so wait for all the ai to get into the tank before you otherwise some may stuff up and say there aren't any slots left when there really is.

Also make sure you tell the tank to halt otherwise the tank will try to return to formation and will keep moving away from you and you won't be able to get into the tank.

Just testing it then in the mission editor (its been a while since i've played arma 2) this is what i had to do to shoot another enemy tank

press ctrl+f to change gun to main gun (ai defaulted to coax mg, open fire)

right click on enemy tank/press next target button (default tab)

wait for gun to lock onto target (will have a square with a diamond on in indicating the gunner has 'locked on'

ctrl+leftmouse to tell gunner to fire main gun

tank destroyed

Unfortunately you'll have to live with crappy ai drivers, just try to give them simple move orders via the map - point a to point b, if you need to take control quickly you can still use W, A, S and D to instruct the driver to move in a direction or stop, its slower than doing it manually but you can at least defend yourself

the best way to use a tank effectively is from the commanders seat, from the drivers seat you can't shoot and from the gunners seat you can't see, but from the commanders seat you can do both

Edited November 19, 2010 by Wraith_V

[Otterbear 10]

Thanks Wraith_V,

he means which weapon are you instructing the gunner to use, the gunner obviously wont fire the main gun if you tell him to use the coxial MG, which is the default weapon selected, press ctrl+f to change gunner weapon (you'll hear the guy say 'cannon' or 'machine gun'

I just noticed that last night. I assumed as "gunner" he would switch guns appropriately. If I was the driver or rather if I had switched to driver.

So switching to driver and letting somebody else sit in the commander's seat really doesn't do anything for me as far as the "new" commander assigning targets and "commanding the tank"?

I had assumed that the "new guy" in the "commander's spot" would become the acting commander.

You can just place an empty tank with you and some guys in the mission editor, make yourself the leader and then when in game order them to enter the tank then get in yourself as commander.

this also can be a little annoying so wait for all the ai to get into the tank before you otherwise some may stuff up and say there aren't any slots left when there really is.

That is what I usually do.

This brings up a couple of issues:

How many slots are in an A1M1 or A1M2?

Yes, sometimes my guys refuse to get in, or at least I can't.

I have yet to see a loader position in any tank...is there one?

I currently have a 4 man crew, me and 3 others. (I tried 5 but then I couldn't get in so I figured I had too many men.)

Also make sure you tell the tank to halt otherwise the tank will try to return to formation and will keep moving away from you and you won't be able to get into the tank.

LOL, yes, I discovered this the hard way. :)

Just testing it then in the mission editor (its been a while since i've played arma 2) this is what i had to do to shoot another enemy tank

press ctrl+f to change gun to main gun (ai defaulted to coax mg, open fire)

right click on enemy tank/press next target button (default tab)

wait for gun to lock onto target (will have a square with a diamond on in indicating the gunner has 'locked on'

ctrl+leftmouse to tell gunner to fire main gun

tank destroyed

I guess, I'll have to use commander mode for this to be effective. Hey, at least it works. thanks.

Unfortunately you'll have to live with crappy ai drivers, just try to give them simple move orders via the map - point a to point b, if you need to take control quickly you can still use W, A, S and D to instruct the driver to move in a direction or stop, its slower than doing it manually but you can at least defend yourself.

the best way to use a tank effectively is from the commanders seat, from the drivers seat you can't shoot and from the gunners seat you can't see, but from the commanders seat you can do both

If I have too, I guess it will have to do. At least you were honest with me.

Thanks again.

[wraith_v 11]

Glad I could help

I just noticed that last night. I assumed as "gunner" he would switch guns appropriately. If I was the driver or rather if I had switched to driver.

unfortunately the AI are morons, if you tell him to target a tank while he has the machine gun selected he'll shoot the machine gun at the tank :rolleyes:

So switching to driver and letting somebody else sit in the commander's seat really doesn't do anything for me as far as the "new" commander assigning targets and "commanding the tank"?

I had assumed that the "new guy" in the "commander's spot" would become the acting commander.

If you are in charge of the ai in the tank (their squad leader) then no, but if you are a subordinate in the squad then the ai will order you around. You can test this by creating a tank and making yourself the gunner, more below

That is what I usually do.

This brings up a couple of issues:

How many slots are in an A1M1 or A1M2?

Yes, sometimes my guys refuse to get in, or at least I can't.

I have yet to see a loader position in any tank...is there one?

I currently have a 4 man crew, me and 3 others. (I tried 5 but then I couldn't get in so I figured I had too many men.)

As a general rule most tanks have 3 positions (including the M1A1): driver, gunner and commander

the 'M1A2 TUSK' has 4 positions: driver, gunner, commander, loader (loader just mans the .50 cal on the roof and can't turn in)

the absolute easiest way to test tanks in the editor (and the way i did it, i meant to add it in my previous post), is just double click anywhere on the map to add a unit, i did blufor > USMC > armoured > M1A1, in the part labeled control you can choose which position you wish to be in.

I then added something to shoot at an opfor tank opfor > russia > armoured > t72 a little bit ahead of the M1A1. I then clicked on the bar labeled ammunition (for the opfor T72) and dragged it to the left making the enemy tank have no ammo, so you have time to test without having to dodge shells.

EDIT: you can replace USMC with US and Russia with Insurgents if you don't have Arma 2

obviously if you are creating a tank mission and you want to start outside the tank you would take a different approach.

Edited November 19, 2010 by Wraith_V

[Otterbear 10]

Cool, thanks for the info. I do have armaII and OA,

I did realize that if I just placed a tank and made myself subordinate that the commander does his thing.

But like you say, If I'm starting outside of the tank then its up to me.

I spent most of last night tying to get the hang of the new commands. (still working on it.) (part of my problem is the inconsistent use of the right mouse button....sometimes it reverts back to the head in mode, other times it zooms, still other times it backs you through the commands you've given. So, at the moment I spend a lot of time RE-acquiring the target. :o

But thanks for the information. Now I KNOW what I have to do. Cheers!

[wraith_v 11]

I spent most of last night tying to get the hang of the new commands. (still working on it.) (part of my problem is the inconsistent use of the right mouse button....sometimes it reverts back to the head in mode, other times it zooms, still other times it backs you through the commands you've given. So, at the moment I spend a lot of time RE-acquiring the target. :o

You can cycle targets by pressing the 'next target' key, which defaults to tab. Unfortunately pressing next target doesn't work (at least for me) in the mission editor, but it does in single missions & campaign.

usually I only use right mouse to select targets when the target does not come up on the radar for some reason (maybe its obscured by a building or wreckage).

if the camera is zooming in when pressing right mouse then you are holding it for too long, you can rebind zoom if you wish but it may interfere with playing as an infantryman.

I see what you mean about the commanders view moving all over the place when the gunner turns the turret, very annoying and it can easily get you killed. I wonder if it works like that on real tanks.

Edited November 20, 2010 by Wraith_V

[Otterbear 10]

if the camera is zooming in when pressing right mouse then you are holding it for too long, you can rebind zoom if you wish but it may interfere with playing as an infantryman.

Yea, I just have to get used to it.

I see what you mean about the commanders view moving all over the place when the gunner turns the turret, very annoying and it can easily get you killed. I wonder if it works like that on real tanks.

Yea, In third person view your view typically follows the tanks direction of travel...usually what you want.

In command view the view stays put, so driving becomes difficult, and as you say, scanning around the tank while it's moving is not an easy task.

I have played other "tank" simulations and the commander/machine-gunner view was centered ON the tank...but driving and searching was still a learned art.

I'm getting better at just jumping to the gunners seat, when I hear of, or see a target and killing it myself. There is still the problem of the third person gun view (while being aimed at the target), it changes to about a 20-30deg difference once you jump inside the tank. Which means you have to re-acquire the target. (this is a bug, and I assume has been sent to BIS, for them to fix).

[Joe98 53]

If you want my two cents, go and buy yourself a xbox 360 controller for windows.

Is the controller connected to the PC with a USB cable?

Does it interfere with the keyboard / mouse? Do I need to remove the controller if I am not playing this game?

[mrcash2009 0]

Is the controller connected to the PC with a USB cable?

Does it interfere with the keyboard / mouse? Do I need to remove the controller if I am not playing this game?

It runs just like an additional USB controller, it does not effect keyboard and mouse, it get detected as another controller to map keys too, arma2 does find it and you can map to it what you want aswell as your keybaord and mouse, I have one and it runs well, good with Heli flying too.

Always stays plugged in.