Dutch F16's intercept radio silent Russian Tu-95 above North Sea

[Pyronick 21]

Two F16’s from the Dutch Royal Air Force have intercepted two Russian bombers over the North Sea on Tuesday, according to a spokesperson for the Air Force.

The two Russian aircraft type TU-95 MS (Bear) were for some time monitored by the Dutch aircraft and eventually flew away.

It is the second time in more than one month that Russian long range bombers are flying in European airspace.

On the night of 15th September, British, Danish and German aircraft came in action because of two Russian aircraft.

Tuesday first Danish and British aircraft came in action before the Dutch fighter jets took off from the airbase Leeuwarden of the so-called Quick Reaction Alert (QRA).

Source: http://www.dutchdailynews.com/dutch-f16s/

This sounds very suspicious.

I thought that the Russian Federation wants to improve the relationship with the European Union.

Or they are monitoring/gathering intel on our political situation and the new Dutch MoD policies.

Perhaps this is a sign telling us we should acquire those F-35's and upgrade our F16's to Block 60 so we can get them over the North Sea much faster.

[mr burns 131]

I call PR action by RHS for upcoming release of TU-95 MS (Bear)!

*puts on tinfoil hat*

[Fox '09 14]

worldwar 3

[Max255 59]

^ Again...

;]

[Txheat 10]

Seems more than anything moscow is doing what they do best and testing the west. If anything it shows how russian-euro realations are improving considering neither side overeacted. However i find it intresting to say the least

[Inkompetent 0]

Russia has the last few years started to show off again. In 2007 (?) they went out with an aircraft carrier, battleship and what more at a world tour for joint exercises, and the Tu-95 air patrols have started again (and considering their range it's hardly surprising to find them even in the North Sea). Then we have Georgia on top of that.

As Txheat says the lack of panic-reactions show that relationships at the moment are good though, and I also assume that is why Russia is starting to become more visible internationally with the rebuilding of their fleet and reactivated strategic bomber wings, since they now aren't considered acts of aggression but rather the same territorial prancing as other countries already do all the time.

And somehow I do think that Mr Burns might be onto something...

[pre-Vet 10]

Perhaps this is a sign telling us we should acquire those F-35's and upgrade our F16's to Block 60 so we can get them over the North Sea much faster.

I dont think this is the time to spend money we dont have.

And who cares about a figgn patrolplane anyway, just a way of Russia to say they are still there, its not like they gonna bomb or anything...

[NoRailgunner 0]

SgtH3nry3 its a common thing across many forces to see if someone is sleeping and make some photos of each other.

Btw only zeh Germans are able to Blitz. ;)

[Thunderbird 0]

Heh, they're just testing their capabilities in carrying out very deep infiltrations within the european airspace...

Nothing new.

Regards,

TB

[kavoven 4]

Two F16’s from the Dutch Royal Air Force have intercepted two Russian bombers over the North Sea

In my mind there is still something between Russia and the North Sea and thats not only water...

So even we (Germany) just ignored them and let them pass? :confused:

[Pyronick 21]

I dont think this is the time to spend money we dont have.

And who cares about a figgn patrolplane anyway, just a way of Russia to say they are still there, its not like they gonna bomb or anything...

We do have the money, we just need to use it a tad more nationally instead of internationally.

In my mind there is still something between Russia and the North Sea and thats not only water...

So even we (Germany) just ignored them and let them pass? :confused:

Finland spotted bogey first, but the RDAF (Denmark) Skrydstrup AB Quick Reaction Alert was the first to scramble and intercept.

The Danish then alerted the RNAF (Netherlands) of the Tupolevs and scrambled two F-16's and escorted the Tupolevs to German airspace where the Luftwaffe took over.

Sorry to disappoint you. A few weeks ago the Germans were quicker but this time the Dutch eagle was faster. :D

Still strange though as the Dutch airforce usually flies with German, Belgian or Norwegian company.

Luckily the NATO QRA doctrine still works.

But the Russians do have the authority to fly over European airspace. Would have been better if they established radio contact though.

Edited October 20, 2010 by SgtH3nry3

[pre-Vet 10]

No we dont have the money, we have heavy finace cuts inside the DoD at the moment.

And if we had the money I think we have to invest it into something more usefull than upgrading a few flying boytoys wich are gonne be out of service within 10years. Cant think of anything the F-16's need for operational purposes what they don't already have. It would be nice to get some propper kit and clothing again.

The RNLAF does more and more interception exercises last years like intercepting slowmovers. Good to see them doing it in RL, hope they took nice pictures of each other.

[dmarkwick 261]

In my mind there is still something between Russia and the North Sea and thats not only water...

So even we (Germany) just ignored them and let them pass? :confused:

More likely they came via the Norwegian corridor. Since RAF Saxa Vord closed down there is no-one watching anymore.

[Pyronick 21]

No we dont have the money, we have heavy finace cuts inside the DoD at the moment.

And if we had the money I think we have to invest it into something more usefull than upgrading a few flying boytoys wich are gonne be out of service within 10years. Cant think of anything the F-16's need for operational purposes what they don't already have. It would be nice to get some propper kit and clothing again.

The RNLAF does more and more interception exercises last years like intercepting slowmovers. Good to see them doing it in RL, hope they took nice pictures of each other.

We have heavy finance cuts because of our history of budgetal memorandum.

Also the fiscal environment in the Netherlands makes it unattractive for multinationals to settle here and go to Belgium, Ireland or Germany instead.

If we would make budgetal proposals non-periodically instead of annually we could save millions.

Also, we have a relatively huge weapon industry (CIS, ICT, electronics) almost rivalling that of Israel.

If the Royal government invested more in the weapon industry and companies involved (EADS, Fokker, NIFARP, Rabobank, Robeco, etc) and stop the ridiculous privatization destroying the economy and society.

I do hope we can adopt the newer British MTP camouflage, dropping the old UK DPM Woodland and US Woodland patterns.

We could sell our YPR-765's and integrate with the Belgian Armed Forces/Luxemburg like the successful I. German/Dutch Corps.

In fact, I actually hope the Benelux will unify fiscal and company law to a 1:1 relation, that way we can improve our economical, military and (Euro-)political strength.

[pre-Vet 10]

The British MTP would be so sweet! Make it even cheaper to go someplace because we dont need to change all our clothing. KCT is testing the original mulitcam at the moment.

But as with most projects I suspect this will be on hold for a while or will transform in getting cheap copys of the original product (arktis->whaller)

The YPR-765 are going to south america, not with too much profit I suppose.

I don't think the benelux thing would work, the Belgium DoD already have their hands full with some language issues.(vlaamse-walloniese war:p)

We don't have enought troops to make a 1st ger/nld army corps and a benelux army corps. The 1st ger/nld army corps gives us access to a lot of german training areas, I dont think the ardennes will live up to that.

Most weapon orders, like the diemaco back in the day, are placed in foreign countrys with the expectation those countrys will invest in our economy.

But dont forget, the tower on the new CV90 are Dutch, only the cannon is from the USA, the rest is Dutch. Same for a lot of equipment in service are from Thales Netherlands like BMS. They made a lot of the systems on the Zeven Provinciën class air defence and C2 frigates, might be an anser to those wild bears above the north sea ;)

[Pyronick 21]

The British MTP would be so sweet! Make it even cheaper to go someplace because we dont need to change all our clothing. KCT is testing the original mulitcam at the moment.

But as with most projects I suspect this will be on hold for a while or will transform in getting cheap copys of the original product (arktis->whaller)

The YPR-765 are going to south america, not with too much profit I suppose.

I don't think the benelux thing would work, the Belgium DoD already have their hands full with some language issues.(vlaamse-walloniese war:p)

We don't have enought troops to make a 1st ger/nld army corps and a benelux army corps. The 1st ger/nld army corps gives us access to a lot of german training areas, I dont think the ardennes will live up to that.

Most weapon orders, like the diemaco back in the day, are placed in foreign countrys with the expectation those countrys will invest in our economy.

But dont forget, the tower on the new CV90 are Dutch, only the cannon is from the USA, the rest is Dutch. Same for a lot of equipment in service are from Thales Netherlands like BMS. They made a lot of the systems on the Zeven Provinciën class air defence and C2 frigates, might be an anser to those wild bears above the north sea ;)

Hehe, I envy the boys from KCT.

They always get to play with new experimental things like the P90, HK417, MP7. :D

I thought the YPR was to be sold to countries like Egypt and Oman?

We don't have to make a lot of profit from those old beasts as they were built here, loss will be minimal. Profit would be nice though.

The whole Belgium "independance revolution" (okay, it's not a revolution :D) seems to be cooling down a little.

Last I heard the Belgian Air Component and Dutch Air Force wanted to integrate both the air superiority fleet, attack helicopters and SAR fleet.

Language barriers still form a big problem, the EDA (EU Defence Agency) wants to unify armed forces with the English language.

The Diemaco did it's job, bonds between the Benelux/EU and Canada has been improving ever since. There even is a Free Trade Agreement.

I ought to be replaced. Not because it is outdated but because the annual budget of the MoD (aswell as other ministeries) needs to get a higher percentage of the GNP.

I have confidence in the new parliament reformation to improve the economy. But I fear it has been raped so hard that it will take at least two generations.

We have a huge industry. But over privatization and outsourcing to other countries is suffocating.

Also, we ought to make more deals within West-Europe and our own shipyards in Rotterdam and Vlissingen.

[pre-Vet 10]

^^^^

Yeah KCT always has the good stuff, even have the HK416 as standard weapon, p90 is out of service though, they wear to fast. Didnt hear about the MP7, intresting! :)

Hope the new Colt Canada will have the same effect on relation between CA and NLD. Too bad the rest of the manouvre units didnt get the HK416 too..:rolleyes:

I do think there is a reasenable percentage of the budget invested in Dutch companys. For example, the Pzh2000NL an the fennek have a lot of Dutch systems build in, a lot done by Thales and Stork. Van Halteren Metaal even build the whole tower for the Pzh2000NL.

A lot of money is going to the JSF witch is being co-developt by Stork and Fokker so a lot of those euros will go to the national economy. As said by the former MoD, 92% of the euros spend on this project will go to our own economy.

We do invest a lot in Dutch companys but we are not to proud of it in some way. I think national pride is often confused with nationalism so to be save its never really outspoken. On top of that, a lot of Dutch people get scared when they hear the words "weaponstrade" and "weapons development" maybe that why these facts and figures are nowhere outside of the DoD media.

I dont think we will make any profit on the YPR, we still bought them, it doesnt matter in which country. Hope they will be sold fast, the sooner the better, we still have a lot of MOB complexes full of them, enought to sell to Egypt and Oman too. Storing them costs a lot so every cent we get for it will be compensation for the costs already made.

Edited October 21, 2010 by pre-Vet

[sic-disaster 311]

Bad move on Russia. Everybody knows we Dutchies will completely steamroll Russia once war breaks out, and we take Moscow within the first week.

*note* For those who didnt notice, heavy sarcasm.

[boneboys 0]

Bad move on Russia. Everybody knows we Dutchies will completely steamroll Russia once war breaks out, and we take Moscow within the first week.

IS2 would win anyhow

[Darkhorse 1-6 16]

The Russian Bear has been flexing it's muscles over the past few years. Their leadership wants to prove to it's citizens that they still have claws, and arms long enough to reach their targets.

[JdB 151]

We don't have enought troops to make a 1st ger/nld army corps and a benelux army corps. The 1st ger/nld army corps gives us access to a lot of german training areas, I dont think the ardennes will live up to that.

I thought the 1 Ger/NL was more of a "paper" unit these days after the Cold War, very top heavy (officers) with few troops actually making up the formation when it's not involved in a large training exercise. More of a bureaucratic exchange program than an actual formation. Especially after the closing of the last base in Germany (Seedorf).

We'll never make a profit on the YPR's, as you can never make a profit on a second hand vehicle.

Last I heard the Belgian Air Component and Dutch Air Force wanted to integrate both the air superiority fleet, attack helicopters and SAR fleet.

I don't see that happening. The fleets of both air forces are very different (only the F-16, C-130 and NH90 are used by both IIRC). Also it would make us vulnerable to the already unreliable political situation in Belgium. They can't get a government together, wouldn't want them involved in deciding what this joint air force can and cannot do. It would take weeks if not months to reach even a badly thought out compromise.

The last time we let someone else decide on how to deploy our armed forces and rules of engagement, over 8000 people were slaughtered. The fewer political bodies there are between the armed forces and a conflict, the better it is, except for the enemy. The US armed forces are able to intervene quickly, which is not just because of the strength of their military, but because they have a strong military under one single government calling the shots.

Any European force made up of any random selection of countries that contains more than one country will never be even nearly as fast/useful. Even though on paper all armed forces in Europe combined have plenty of capability, until the European Union will have a true government that can decide to deploy any European forces that it wants without national bodies being able to veto it, it will never amount to anything, and most nations will still be wasting money by trying to fill every role on it's own rather than buying systems for the capability of Europe.

[pre-Vet 10]

I thought the 1 Ger/NL was more of a "paper" unit these days after the Cold War, very top heavy (officers) with few troops actually making up the formation when it's not involved in a large training exercise. More of a bureaucratic exchange program than an actual formation. Especially after the closing of the last base in Germany (Seedorf).

We'll never make a profit on the YPR's, as you can never make a profit on a second hand vehicle.

Paper is what makes the military world go round, especially when it comes to planning exercises like shooting at Bergen-Hohne, without the 1Ger/NLD we wouldn't get to do that. Not a formation in the flesh but we would need units on paper that have to be available in case all hell breaks lose.

Seedorf wasn't the last base in Germany, we still got Münster:

http://www.defensie.nl/cdc/ivent/contact/locaties/locatie_munster_de

and there are German troops at the Dutch army base Garderen with the CISbat.

I understand we wont make money with old vehicles.

[Pyronick 21]

Hope the new Colt Canada will have the same effect on relation between CA and NLD. Too bad the rest of the manouvre units didnt get the HK416 too..:rolleyes:

I think the HK416 will eventually fully replace the Diemaco C7 and C8.

The fact that it uses STANAG mags and rails makes adoptation a lot easier.

I do think there is a reasenable percentage of the budget invested in Dutch companys. For example, the Pzh2000NL an the fennek have a lot of Dutch systems build in, a lot done by Thales and Stork. Van Halteren Metaal even build the whole tower for the Pzh2000NL.

A lot of money is going to the JSF witch is being co-developt by Stork and Fokker so a lot of those euros will go to the national economy. As said by the former MoD, 92% of the euros spend on this project will go to our own economy.

We do invest a lot in Dutch companys but we are not to proud of it in some way. I think national pride is often confused with nationalism so to be save its never really outspoken. On top of that, a lot of Dutch people get scared when they hear the words "weaponstrade" and "weapons development" maybe that why these facts and figures are nowhere outside of the DoD media.

I think there is a large gap between nationalism and safe guarding national interests.

In this case it is all about the latter. We need to look after our economy, because we live in a service-based economy. (We don't export much)

The Dutch people are generally very peace loving and globalists but we always were a small part of a bigger scheme.

We always have been protected by or part of the Belgians, the Germans, the French, the Spanish or the NATO.

There is no real Dutch fighting spirit, but we DO have one of the overall best armed forces albeit a little small.

When we were finally truely independent we had to protect ourselves against the First and Second World War. In which we failed.

Probably too much focus on colonial settlements, we should have cooperated more with the Belgians.

Only after the Second World War and our NATO membership we have a defence force worthy to mention.

Although we always had a very powerful navy and modernized naval infantry (marine) warfare.

I dont think we will make any profit on the YPR, we still bought them, it doesnt matter in which country. Hope they will be sold fast, the sooner the better, we still have a lot of MOB complexes full of them, enought to sell to Egypt and Oman too. Storing them costs a lot so every cent we get for it will be compensation for the costs already made.

We still make parts for the YPR-765. The various modifications to the Detroit Diesel (now MTU-Detroit) engine makes sure we'll always have parts and knowledge to sell if needed.

We should have modernized the YPR-765 with combat information systems prior to selling them.

That could have granted us a nice maintenance contract.

[pre-Vet 10]

^^

We just begun phasing in the new Colt so the HK416 is just for the KCT for now, the HK417 will (maybe) replace the AI.AWM with the Infantry. Hope the HK416 will replace the Colt soon though, the C7A2 is just a cosmetic update and the HK416 is a real leap forward in gun technology. Its wierd they equip the whole army with the new model, could have just equiped the manouvre elements, they are the only ones who really use them. They had a pretty nice C7A2/C8A2 prototype but most of the neat features got canceled too save money.

I agree we have a good armed force and within the armed force there is a real fighting spirit, its just being supressed by insane ROE's time and time again. As you said, no fighting spirit in the public society.

About the WW, you should read this:

http://www.bol.com/nl/p/nederlandse-boeken/generaal-reynders/1001004005498782/index.html

will anser your questions.

You are right about the economy, I hope we will get a autonomaus EU soon! But we have to stop letting countries in the EU that dont have anything to contribute or are %95 Azia. With the new Maasvlakte we will be the gate to Europe for sure. (Now just hope Vlaanderen will be annexated coming years :p)

I'm afraid we wont have to help the new owners of the YPR to maintain them, the same happend with the Leo-1, we sold 250 of them to Chile and never heard anything of that again. Where are those YPR parts made? The last couple of years we always had to wait for parts from Belgium and Germany. Glad we got the CV-90!

Selling our new, top of the line, classified BMS would not be such a smart move ;)

[Pyronick 21]

You are right about the economy, I hope we will get a autonomaus EU soon! But we have to stop letting countries in the EU that dont have anything to contribute or are %95 Azia. With the new Maasvlakte we will be the gate to Europe for sure. (Now just hope Vlaanderen will be annexated coming years :p)

I'm all for integrating former Soviet-bloc states in to the European Union.

Actually, I would even like to see the Russian Federation (more than 80% of it's population and industry is in Europe) in the European Union.

But the European Union must make admissions much more strict then it currently is.

Economies of member states should be supervised more thoroughly.

The EU is dragged down by economies which suddenly halted their rapid growing.

We could benefit from rapid growing economies like Belarus, Greenland, Cyprus, Poland but instead the European sovereign debt crisis led to a sudden halt of huge investments.

And the unification of the Benelux as a single federal (republic) state would be a dream coming true for me.

But I can't imagine most of the Flemish (and Dutch) having to share their soil with Wallonians. :D

I'm afraid we wont have to help the new owners of the YPR to maintain them, the same happend with the Leo-1, we sold 250 of them to Chile and never heard anything of that again. Where are those YPR parts made? The last couple of years we always had to wait for parts from Belgium and Germany. Glad we got the CV-90!

Makes sense.

Aren't Leopard 1 parts still readily available worldwide though?

The YPR-765 is loosely based on the M113 but the engine has been radically changed.

This engine, a Detroit Diesel 6V53T twin-stroke V6 (usually aircooled) has been rebuilt with DAF radiators to keep it cool.

It also has DAF-built turbochargers (licenced Garrett's with unique oil cooling) completely designed to cooperate with the Detroit's supercharger.

They could go back to the original 6V53T, a modern engine wouldn't fit and get as much "power" as an old two-stroke diesel.

The 6V53T is "environmentally"-unsound due to it's massive CO and HC emissions.