Documentation frustration

[ladlon 10]

Okay, I know I'm going to get flamed for this... but I'll mention it.

I know the forum is frustrated by people asking the same questions, by people who don't fully search, for people who whine about documentation.

Obviously, there's some great resources here, including the wiki's.

But, what I find frustrating (especially as a mid-level user... meaning I'm not a code-head, but dabble and try to learn) is that despite there being posts where things are explained, they are also burried in threads containing pages of people chatting about it, asking about it, etc.

I may be wrong, and haven't found it yet, but I have yet to find a complete page of documentation (on say, scripting) that isn't just part of some 80 page thread.

The wiki's are a great start, but often are missing things. Or, in my case in particular, I'm frustrated when finding useful scripts/configs, but have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA where to enter them into. Again, I'm finding it's fragments of great info, but never the full explanation... So, you end up doing a search on the subject (ex. Dynamic weather), and having to read through pages of discussion.

Obviously, it would be ideal to have a page where the current and correct info is on any subject, rather than having to go through months of discussion posts.

I understand, trust me, that this is all work, and easier said than done, etc... and I'm obviously not trying to piss on the work that everyone here has done... especially since no one here has any obligation to do any documentation, etc.

But, I just wanted to put that on the table... as currently I'm trying to set up a random session (Secop, ambient combat... all of which have worked for many months fine.... but now trying to add things like Simple Support, random weather, etc).

I'm always finding one of two extremes... Either documentation on the very basics of how to (say) use the editor (which I know already), or hard core codes/scripts discussions that assume you know how to write this stuff, and where to put it.

Not trying to be a prick... Just firing off a distress/frustration flare.

[kylania 546]

You're spot on really. :) I've attempted to address that problem with my website (see link in sig) where I've gone through dozens of pages of posts and pulled out examples of various tricks and code samples. One problem I have is that I haven't been very clear about where/how to use these examples. I'll probably try to fix that soon.

Really though, you just need to put in the time to read through all those pages of posts and learn how things are used and then everything will start to make more sense. :)

[shuko 45]

As kylania said, you have a valid point. However, it's quite impossible to have a complete example page for every single thing in a game as flexible as Arma. Thus, it's either, like you said, very basic info or a (complex) script. The ground between them is more or less this forum. I know very well how frustrating it can be searching for something specific.

Then again, there aren't that many ways script etc are used. So, people should take the time to learn about triggers, execvm etc. I don't mind helping with scripts etc, but it can get annoying if you have to hold persons hand and tell him what to type in init.sqf to start a script etc.

[ladlon 10]

Hi, guys. Thanks for taking my post in the spirit it was intended.

Ya, well I think the general problem stems from the fact that the sim itself doesn't ship with adequate documentation (although the OA physical manual is certainly an improvement over the Arma2 one!)

On one hand, the whole sim has a very nicely open architecture to it, which is excellent for expandability and modification... but it also kind of backfires to those not entirely 'in the know' of coding, etc.

A similar frustration was found in the gameplay controls... where the manual, and virtually all online documentation/posts would explain the very basics (moving, stance, basic orders, etc)... yet all would completely disregard other controls/features (...ex. the infamous Arma2 UAV). As an outside user (not in the modding world, or connected heavily to the sim), it was very frustrating, as hours of post reading would finally reveal links... to the basic commands again, and still not address the things you are looking for. I mention this only in that it is a very similar situation to what I have been experiencing with my searches for editor info.

Many times, too, the user made items lack documentation, as they seem to assume you know what to do with them (...I guess they assume the people grabbing them are mission makers/coders...), so often they will not actually say what to do with them (...or will give some cryptic 'install' info that goes over regular user's heads).

Arma2 overall, has been a bit frustrating in many ways... yet it's also absolutely brilliant, and a sim that takes up far more time than I would like!... and I'm just playing single player random missions (Cipher, and my self-made Secop module sessions). If I ever get into co-op with another player, I fear I'll never be heard from the outside world again! :)

But, yes, there's frustration... In the seemingly scrambled assortment of info burried in pages of discussion (which is all great for those who actually are very familiar with the subject and/or the issues currently being sorted out with them)... In the game's interface.... and in user made scenarios/mods that lack one or two things (ex. dynamic weather) that you'd really love to somehow get in there, but struggle to find info on how to... if at all possible.

I have actually read up on the basics of scripting, and tinkered with the editor. I'm sort of in between... I know things like ActionScript, etc... so I'm not completely clueless on the logic of scripting in general... but at the same time, I'm not overly familiar with the scripting in Arma2, so I'm sort of in between when looking over code. But, really, a lot of time the real issue is WHERE to put the code!... as that is often never mentioned in the posts (as, again, I think it's common knowledge among those more in the know...).

Yep, I'll keep researching and learning (although I really can't spare too much time on this sort of thing, unfortunately). It just gets frustrating when you think you've found a link... and that just leads to more multi-paged threads of discussion. Often feels like trying to navigate through a government website! (Ouch, that was low!)

My current mission: Trying to get random weather and starting time/date in my Secop sessions, and (if possible) in stuff like Cipher.

[AZCoder 675]

My first foray into Arma scripting was just 9 months ago, and what I found really helpful was Mr Murrays guide, since it covers such a variety of editing topics. Granted some of it is outdated since A2 came out, but it got me started. The other was a scripting guide by Taurus (?) I think, its available on Armaholic, talks about functions and procedures with great examples. Admittedly I am a programmer by profession, but scripting for Arma is still its own learning process, and some of the most helpful bits were found by good fortune.

[kylania 546]

Both those resources are linked from my page. :)

[ladlon 10]

Hi, AZCoder...

Ya, I dabbled with programming over my life... BASIC when I was young, ActionScipt in the last few years... So I'm 'familiar' with code logic, but obviously very green at the code structure Arma2 uses.

I tinkered with it and read up on the subject when I first got Arma2, as I was eager to create some sort of random mission (which I ended up doing with the Secop module, along with things like the Civilian Life mod, and others).

I'm back at it again now, as I want to add random, dynamic weather, as well as a random start time... but it's been pretty brutal. Rightfully, the guys here are getting tired of answering the same questions, but also recognize that the answers are not nicely organized anywhere, and you have to dig through lots of 'discussion' and often go in circles clicking links that lead to more links.

The manuals for complex stuff like scripting (and even things like manuals for jet fighter sims) have a very tough task, as they have to start explaining things from some sort of 'beginning point'... which inevitably involves mentioning things that haven't previously been explained, causing confusion. They'll try and remedy that with a link to the explanation of that item, but then you kind of stray from the initial teaching path, and often go in circles again... and that's when you have a nice single manual!

I may have even read that scripting guide you mention, but I will check it out again. Certainly, it's really just a matter of putting in the time and learning everything... but the problem is, not all of us have the time nor the desire, as some of us just want to play (with no real asperations of being a map/mission maker, etc)... but run into a premade scenario/mod that you want to add to or change something about.

So, it's frustrating for both sides, unfortunately.

I just wish the makers of the sim would have included a complete manual (gameplay and editing), and charged a few extra bucks... Would have made life easier on all of us, I think!

---------- Post added at 02:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:45 PM ----------

Roger that, Kylania... I'm looking into it... along with a bucketful of other stuff. Thanks