ASR AI Skills

[chrisb 196]

Here you go ChrisB]

I see you can pop in Zeus and SLX and give silly results, I could do that with asr_ai without any problems at all.

However, not what you said earlier, which was asr_ai/tpwc produce better results than the vids I put up prior and the ones @Roni refers to in his post, you can view these via my +ai behaviour in my sig, there’s around 22 vids.

There is a vid showing the ai deploying smoke, engaging me and going for cover, all at the same time from open ground. Recreate that for me with asr_ai, would be interesting to see..

I can get the same results as the ones you've shown using any ai mods, infact all ai behavioural mods.

By the way I use tpwc_suppress with the mod mix I use, which also includes GL4, you can actually see tpwc in action in the vid mentioned, where the ai start to suppress me.. The mod mix I use, infact many mixes I use, don’t break TPWC_suppress..

Show me some test results, I’m all for better ai, but ai that’s realistic, not ww1 tactics, i.e. drop to the floor and move forward, in vain hope you’ll survive.. Modern tactics, where finding good cover for your squad whilst engaging is all important, that also would include deploying smoke at the same time if need be..

I don't want to hijack the thread, you putting up vids of asr_ai doing the things mentioned, would be fine, look forward to those. But me going on about gl4, slx or zues is hijacking the thread, so I'll wait for your vids, to reply..

[maturin 12]

The running away behavior looks just like the Zues findcover PBO. It's almost entirely unworkable in most ordinary situations, although I can see how it would be nice if the AI know you're coming and have a lot of place to hide.

If they could be made to bound to cover, half a team at a time...

[katipo66 94]

Ive also been playing around on Shapur testing with different combinations of ASR AI Skills/Zeus/SLX/Vanilla.. observing with Charon's Troopmon and seeing many different results with many different setups.

Im only interested when AI come together over large distances.. obviously its a different story by surprising them from around the corner, or while in the they run into each other at close quarter out in the open, but for me thats not so important, im more interested in how they behave and engage each other from 100-200 + mtrs or even in reasonably close quarter how they behave and move when aware of enemy or in danger mode.

[maturin 12]

I have taken a shot at a full squad from 300m on the Utes runway, only to have them tripping over each other while sprinting to the nearest hanger. They knew exactly where I was, and had the firepower to end me in seconds. The behavior is a little extreme. Can lead to friendly fire incidents and nonexistent formations, too.

[ryanbeckey0 1]

iv also had problems where the whole AI squad is using the same point of cover :P ( looks pretty funny when they are all crouching behind the same pillar of a building )

but compared to other Ai mods, your combination is the best iv seen

[maturin 12]

Hold on, we're discussing this in the ASR thread (I was just tabbing through new posts)? This is not the appropriate place.

[Cannon Fodder 0]

Just adding to this discussion by saying that I saw exactly the same results that metalcraze has posted with Chris's AI mix. I'm perplexed as to how he manages to get the results that he does! I'm now using a combination of ASR AI and the TPWCAS with TPW AI LOS. Granted, the AI is not as sophisticated as when GL4 functions correctly, nor is it as dynamic, but it actually works. The only problem I find (and I'm running with the latest beta) is that the AI is VERY reluctant to leave the danger state once triggered - about 20 minutes after combat has occurred. It's also incredibly difficult to get them to move under fire... BUT it's a massive improvement over the vanilla AI (which, in comparison, is just woeful). I'm spending much, much longer in firefights although I'd really like the ability to be able to move around my troops a bit more. It's difficult to do anything in terms of tactics when, when you're under fire, you advance 20 metres every 20 minutes!

[metalcraze 290]

I see you can pop in Zeus and SLX and give silly results, I could do that with asr_ai without any problems at all.

That's how Zeus and SLX affect AI post 1.59. AI will always turn his back on you with Zeus and try to run away. They won't do that in vanilla / with ASR AI.

I recorded everything in 1 take, there wasn't any conspiracy to show that Zeus is worse.

However, not what you said earlier, which was asr_ai/tpwc produce better results than the vids I put up prior and the ones @Roni refers to in his post, you can view these via my +ai behaviour in my sig, there’s around 22 vids.

Yes in your videos AI just runs into cover/buildings ignoring immediate threats and often sits there instead of fighting. If you enjoy wiping out a whole squad of AIs without them ever fighting back - then by all means go ahead, I'm not here to stop you from using Zeus. I just stated a few facts about why Zeus makes AI worse.

There is a vid showing the ai deploying smoke, engaging me and going for cover, all at the same time from open ground. Recreate that for me with asr_ai, would be interesting to see..

They do that with ASR AI too. They deploy smoke when they are getting hit though instead of a random chance like with Zeus.

With ASR AI just like with vanilla they will engage you first and go for cover second which is an adequate behavior.

With Zeus they will always go for cover first exposing their backs and maybe shoot you later if they still see you - which is anything but an adequate behavior.

Plus with ASR AI they can rearm from their backpacks, something they don't do with Zeus.

TPW AI LOS also works with ASR AI while it does not with Zeus.

Edited November 12, 2012 by metalcraze

[teilx 4]

maybe someone can run a mission+ai mix with show script errors .....I bet there are some problems between scripts

are just too many of the same functions

but everyone can use so many mods as he likes....the main thing is... it works for you.. if not, remove some pbo's..and you have fun^^

Edited November 12, 2012 by TeilX

[bars91 956]

Had some AI on AI action today.

ASR AI + TPW AI LOS + current beta patch = win on infinite levels of epic!

[roni 11]

I want say that latest beta patches(in latest few months) really improved AI, and I have the best results with ace,asr_ai and tpwc_ai now. No-one should say now that you can run in firefight 2m in front of enemy ai and he do nothing, they react almost instantly, and shoot at you.

[giorgygr 61]

If i remember correctly ASR_AI_Skillz somehow affects the relation between AI+Enterable Buildings (?)

So..

I m really interested if someone tried ASR_AI+Zorilya's Garrison Script ..or one breaks the other ?

[Tonci87 163]

Urban or forest warfare has become extremely brutal and intensive if you use BETA+ASR_AI+TPWAC+TPWAC_LOS

Go and play the Counterattack scenario in Arma 2 (the one where Russians attack Elektro) and watch how your squad moves through the city. Now they actually look like a combat unit if they come under fire.

[ryanbeckey0 1]

iv also had problems where the whole AI squad is using the same point of cover :P ( looks pretty funny when they are all crouching behind the same pillar of a building )

but compared to other Ai mods, your combination is the best iv seen

deleted the Zeus .pbos and it works amazingly now :) had some really intense firefights with just 1 squad v 1 squad , lasts about 30 mins lol and i havnt even beat the AI

[roni 11]

Thats interesting, thanks. You talking about magic mix of course?

[ryanbeckey0 1]

Yes chris mix, just place the Gl4 system and special fx and AI custom module and sycnh all 3 to the enemy or friendly squadleaders then give them both a search and destroy waypoint :)

[chrisb 196]

Yes chris mix, just place the Gl4 system and special fx and AI custom module and sycnh all 3 to the enemy or friendly squadleaders then give them both a search and destroy waypoint :)

The find cover is ‘SLX_findcover & SLX_ai’ that will work for your find cover, its how we work it. The Zeus find cover is not used for finding cover, we use it because it makes the ai use smaller outbuildings with GL4.

GL4 ai, which are by far the best, use mainly larger buildings ignoring many of the smaller outhouses, we found whilst testing that if ‘zeus find cover’ is put in the mix, the ai use the smaller outbuildings a lot more, why, who knows, but that’s what we found, that’s why the zeus find cover is used by our group and with the mix. We have had no problems regards the go for cover prior to engaging, as pointed out several times also by video, here again, so we still use it. But as I have pointed out in quite a few pm’s to forum members, its down to testing on your own system and getting the mix right for you the user. What works for me may not work for others. Simply test, that’s how adding asr_ai, if that’s what you want to do, can be done, just test mixes.

If your going to use the mix or your own mix that includes GL4, remember to make missions using a GL4 foundation, do that and you won’t have any problems with waypoints etc. Always read the ‘readmes’ in mods, GL4 readme will blow you away with the content, it also tells you how to set out certain important things. This also applies to SLX, the readme is there to give you pointers via the features, i.e. they tell you what they do and which other pbo they may need. Testing will find out things that even the mod maker probably hadn’t thought about, certainly what we found when mixing pbo’s from several mods. With asr_ai this would also be the case, read the readme details or whatever is supplied with the mod, very important to know what the mod does first before you begin.

When testing be different, try everything you can think of, that you want to see in your game, if its urban, forest, open ground or anywhere, pbo’s from GL4/SLX/Zeus/TPWC pack, will give you a game that is far beyond what you are probably playing now, if you have never experienced GL4 before or indeed SLX or indeed a mix of pbo’s, they are head and shoulders above the rest. Buildings, balconies, rooftops etc should not be the reserve of the human player, I want the ai to be hard and have an edge, not be afraid to use what’s on the map and use it effectively as shown in the vids. I don’t want ai simply to pass through buildings and not use them as cover or a point to engage from, I want them (ai) to act as I would act, use windows doorways and the aforementioned, or lets say act as near as possible to how a human player acts.

Which mods you use in your mix is all down to your personal preference, but to get the results seen in my vids regards our mix, you would have to include GL4. SLX, TPWC_suppress/los etc, also Zeus if you have no problems, if you have problems simply do as you have been, remove it. But don’t stop at the mix, test and observe other mixes, takes lots of time but it ultimately gives you a far superior game play and immersion in the end. What you see in the vids is nothing compared to a full mission made using the mix, thats when you know you have hit on a different Arma 2. But think on, these mods have been around for years in some cases, some simply added upon, GL3 was better in many ways than GL4, still it had to move on. They are all available and made by very talented people as is asr_ai, they are there to be used, how you get to the game you want is all down to you and testing, I certainly recommend mixing pbo, just test and observe, each test can be a mini mission, squad on squad as mentioned above, its great fun and will open your eye's to the possibilities..

:)

[orcinus 121]

Urban or forest warfare has become extremely brutal and intensive if you use BETA+ASR_AI+TPWAC+TPWAC_LOS

Go and play the Counterattack scenario in Arma 2 (the one where Russians attack Elektro) and watch how your squad moves through the city. Now they actually look like a combat unit if they come under fire.

+1

I've been running ASR_AI+TPWAC+TPWAC_LOS since the first TPWAC scripts became available (with some selected files from CoSLX) and the combination is a real game-changer.

These also seem to be pretty compatible with DAC (in which there is a lot of scope for customisation anyway, to address conflicts), and is perfectly compatible with HAC (very much unlike GL4).

Re some other comments - GL4 breaks very, very many official and user campaigns/missions because it messes with waypoints. It really does have to be incorporated into missions from the earliest design stage.

Haven't used Zeus for almost a year, it started to go wonky AFAIAC from 1.58 or 1.59. Pity, it had some good features.

Current ASR_AI is great, I never play without it except for basic tests on new betas and missions where the designer cautions against AI mods.

[ryanbeckey0 1]

if anyones running chris's Ai mix and has Unsung mod, send me a PM :)

how do the AI act with ASR + TWPAC + LOS? do they use buildings alot more, if so i might convert to that mix :P

[froggyluv 2130]

Urban or forest warfare has become extremely brutal and intensive if you use BETA+ASR_AI+TPWAC+TPWAC_LOS

The combination is an absolute PC AI achievement. Lets not forget BI's continued Beta advancements and the introduction of LineIntersect which has been imho colossal.

[delta99 34]

The combination is an absolute PC AI achievement. Lets not forget BI's continued Beta advancements and the introduction of LineIntersect which has been imho colossal.

Plus the work that ShackTac has been doing with the headless AI. I wonder what if any AI mods/scripts ShackTac run with.

[concurssi 11]

Urban or forest warfare has become extremely brutal and intensive if you use BETA+ASR_AI+TPWAC+TPWAC_LOS

You got me all interested, so I went looking around for TPWAC and TPWAC_LOS.

The only relevant thing to come up on google was the TPWC AI Supression system. Is that the same thing?

Also, while I'm here, I remember a while back someone asked in this thread what they should set their AI skill settings to for the optimal experience. That was ages ago, and it would be quite a chore to try and dig out the answer from all these pages, so would anyone happen to have any suggestions for this?

E: durrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

As soon as I posted that I went to the first post and found the link to the suggested difficulty settings.

Thanks ;)

[Tonci87 163]

You got me all interested, so I went looking around for TPWAC and TPWAC_LOS.

The only relevant thing to come up on google was the TPWC AI Supression system. Is that the same thing?

Also, while I'm here, I remember a while back someone asked in this thread what they should set their AI skill settings to for the optimal experience. That was ages ago, and it would be quite a chore to try and dig out the answer from all these pages, so would anyone happen to have any suggestions for this?

E: durrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

As soon as I posted that I went to the first post and found the link to the suggested difficulty settings.

Thanks ;)

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?136304-TPWC-AI-suppression-system

TPWC LOS is also in the first post.

Have fun

[metalcraze 290]

Urban or forest warfare has become extremely brutal and intensive if you use BETA+ASR_AI+TPWAC+TPWAC_LOS

Go and play the Counterattack scenario in Arma 2 (the one where Russians attack Elektro) and watch how your squad moves through the city. Now they actually look like a combat unit if they come under fire.

That's what one of the recent betas did. Watching AI stack along walls as they slowly advance from position to position looks great. Plus that beta also improved their cover direction checking so they most of the time now face the enemy properly. I often had AIs sitting at corners at the junction and facing the opposite directions of each other for more area coverage.

And with TPW AI LOS it was becoming quite deadly. In fact I had to use almost 1.5:1 or even 2:1 advantage on the attacking teams to kill defenders which is quite realistic.

TPW Suppression however has certain exploits to it even with TPW AI LOS enabled. For example in CQB you can just move and spray enemies and instead of shooting you they often will simply hit the deck and crawl around in panic so that mod needs some tweaking. Adding minimum distance inside which suppression doesn't work?

[concurssi 11]

You can tweak it with the config file that comes with it.

There are settings for activation range and such in there.