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your mod is the only one installed, I meant Machinegunners on a russian APC...could you tell me how to increase bullet dispersion please?

Mounted machineguns on APC have almost no dispersion for obvious reasons - you know that?

I'm playing the first mission of this campaign http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=11547 and I bet you'll find it really difficult too, maybe the problem is that this guy put every soldier skills at the maximum level.

Or maybe the problem is that some mission makers have no sense of balance. If I will put 10 infantrymen against me alone and they will kill me almost instantly - that isn't the problem with overkill accuracy you know. Play good missions where the balance is realistic or close to that (as in 1:2 at max, 1:1.5 missions are the ones I find to be the best balanced) and ArmA will suddenly become a well balanced and properly challenging game.

Edited by metalcraze

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The problem of super precise AI is real, and it was only made worse after 1.60

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?129395-precisionEnemy-in-1-60

https://dev-heaven.net/issues/27417

https://dev-heaven.net/issues/27851

Why some of you were unaware of this, is beyond me.

If AI is superprecise why do firefights between AI last for minutes and why do I get more kills than any AI in my squad with max skill sliders in the editor?

Try playing with and/or against humans and then tell me fairytales about superprecise AI. Launch DayZ and go to Cherno and tell me about superprecise AI again.

Or maybe people should stop trying to put 100 AIs 10 BMPs 10 T72s against them in a mission hoping to rambo all that alone expecting that 100 bullets from 10 guns sent their way will magically miss?

Edited by metalcraze

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I guess some people want the immersion without the challenge. I personally find that there is no immersion with out some challenge (If I get 20 kills at the end of a short mission it doesn't at all feel immersive...) but I guess to each his own. That's why mods like ASR and JSS are great because they are totally customizable. I do wish that at max skill ai would actually be better at shooting/spotting than a human, then those who really want a challenge can get it. Right now even at max skill ai are only perhaps half as good a shot as a human.

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AI depends on CPU power the more/better you got the "better" is default AI. Imo lowest/maximum AI skill and precision setup should be only used for testing. Something like machinegunner configuration (similar to sniper/pilot) could be interesting - so one can adjust the default AI machinegunners to a more realistic/authentic behaviour and hit/kill ratio. Just cross fingers that BIS will give A3 a more userfriendly AI config tool/feature - its about time.

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My bad, for giving a wrong example. If you are adding the asr_ai class in the description.ext you must include all of it because all values will be read from there then (or at least the whole subclass per addon, unless you are disabling it with feature=0)

Thanks, McFixed.

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Sorry for this complete noob question.

As its says the following,

This addon can be installed on clients, servers or both. It will configure only the AI local to the machine where it is installed.

I know how to get it to work on the clients side, with the -mod=@asr_ai

but how do I install it on the server side.

Is it just a matter of just uploadling it into the 'file manager' part and thats it ?

or do I have to do anything else, like add something to the cmd line.

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Thanks again for this awesome mod Robalo.

We had yet another long COOP night with a large crowd and with ASR_AI on at it was great as always.

I just love that easy-to-tweak options you provided to tweak ASR_AI to everyone's taste.

Keep it up!

Cheers,

D.

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Sorry for this complete noob question.

As its says the following,

I know how to get it to work on the clients side, with the -mod=@asr_ai

For A2:CO should be -mod=@CBA;@CBA_A2;@CBA_OA;@asr_ai

but how do I install it on the server side.

Exactly the same as you did on clients.

---------- Post added at 20:10 ---------- Previous post was at 19:01 ----------

Thanks again for this awesome mod Robalo.

We had yet another long COOP night with a large crowd and with ASR_AI on at it was great as always.

I just love that easy-to-tweak options you provided to tweak ASR_AI to everyone's taste.

Keep it up!

Cheers,

D.

Glad to hear. It would be nice to find details if available about size/type of mission and what was the FPS on the server when using this.

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Two things first: 1) I hope everyone understands this discussion is about general engine behavior, in relation with this mod, and not about what Robalo is doing, which is an awesome effort and is as close as one can get to improve the shooting of the AI with the current state of the engine. And 2) I hope Robalo doesn't feel this as thread hijacking. I promise it ends here, just in case.

Then keep your head down. You want EZ mode ?

I've been playing simulations since I don't know when. Started playing BIS ones with OFP, for years. Yeah... I want "EZ" mode :).

What I want is that the first rounds of AI fire don't have the tendency to land on my head. As you can see from the posts I quoted early, most people saw the same.

If AI is superprecise why do firefights between AI last for minutes and why do I get more kills than any AI in my squad with max skill sliders in the editor?

Minutes what, 2, 5, 10, 30, 60? How many AI is involved? And as for you getting more kills than you AI mates, there are many possible explanations. Bullet dispersion and weapon recovery when you shoot is very unrealistic in Arma 2, it was way better in Arma 1 but everyone complained so. AI tends to move more, and are very bad at shooting moving targets. You tend to move less, so you are safer in the same battle, while shooting the moving AI with very little recoil, etc.

Try playing with and/or against humans and then tell me fairytales about superprecise AI. Launch DayZ and go to Cherno and tell me about superprecise AI again.

Again, problems with too much precise fire from humans, because of no recoil, no recovery time, no bullet dispersion. The opposite than Arma 1. And for the second part: yeah, DayZ :)...

Or maybe people should stop trying to put 100 AIs 10 BMPs 10 T72s against them in a mission hoping to rambo all that alone expecting that 100 bullets from 10 guns sent their way will magically miss?

Possible cause for some complains, agreed, but not my case.

I guess some people want the immersion without the challenge. I personally find that there is no immersion with out some challenge (If I get 20 kills at the end of a short mission it doesn't at all feel immersive...) but I guess to each his own. That's why mods like ASR and JSS are great because they are totally customizable. I do wish that at max skill ai would actually be better at shooting/spotting than a human, then those who really want a challenge can get it. Right now even at max skill ai are only perhaps half as good a shot as a human.

Again, what you can do with rifles in Arma 2 is completely unrealistic. Arma 1 was better at that, but everyone complained...

AI depends on CPU power the more/better you got the "better" is default AI.

Exactly, that's probably why we see different AI behavior. In any case, this is just stating one group of observations. I don't complain, I've enjoyed OFP, I've enjoyed Arma 1, and I'm enjoying Arma 2 as well. I'm just trying to understand what BIS tried to do, and for that I can't deny the facts: AI is very precise when shooting stationary targets, most likely to compensate what those stationary targets (namely humans) can do to them, due to unrealistic shooting ability.

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Glad to hear. It would be nice to find details if available about size/type of mission and what was the FPS on the server when using this.

It was a Hell in the Pacific Beta-Test COOP mission by [KH]Foxy with 18 players that lasted for two hours.

Average number of active AI units was ~80, out of ~500 in total.

Hell in the Pacific is already quite script-heavy on it's own, but even with ASR_AI on, only about 3 players noticed less-than-optimal performance (but still very playable).

And those most likely had gfx-related problems. People often claim that this is due to the excessive use of smoke grenades by the AI - personally, I don't have these issues, so I can't really tell (but I really like that feature).

Unfortunately I didn't check server-fps, but no one experienced any troubles that might point to low server FPS, and the AI was as smart as always with ASR_AI on.

I'll try to check FPS next time.

Cheers,

D.

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I can't wait to test the next version.

Particularly given that yesterday's beta fixes a critical aspect of AI combat behaviour

[93670] Fixed: Prone units stop engaging (https://dev-heaven.net/issues/32475)

I think that bug was new, probably introduced by another recent beta.

Version 1.15 of the mod is ready and going to be tested tonight hopefully (if enough people show up to play on the AS server where it's installed to give me proper feedback).

Here's the (unexpectedly big :)) changelog:

- AI uses a lower stance in combat - crouch more, shoot from prone with MG, AR, sniper rifles or other weapons with bipods (ACE) (userconfig: stayLow = 1).

- Steadier AI machinegunners - less recoil based on firing position (userconfig: recoilMod = 1).

- Recoil is increased for wounded AI units (userconfig: recoilMod = 1).

- Added option to debug the gunshot hearing aid feature on screen (userconfig: gunshothearing_debug = 0).

- Merged asr_ai_c_aigrenadierfix pbo with asr_ai_c_airof

- Units unable to walk/run (wounded legs) are removed from their group unless they are healed in some time (userconfig: split_legged = 300).

- They will also be excluded from group consolidation.

- Optimised smoke throwing.

- Lower stance for higher building positions, also snipers stay in them more.

- Excluded a few buildings from the AI house patrol feature.

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I think that bug was new, probably introduced by another recent beta.

Version 1.15 of the mod is ready and going to be tested tonight hopefully (if enough people show up to play on the AS server where it's installed to give me proper feedback).

Here's the (unexpectedly big :)) changelog:

- AI uses a lower stance in combat - crouch more, shoot from prone with MG, AR, sniper rifles or other weapons with bipods (ACE) (userconfig: stayLow = 1).

- Steadier AI machinegunners - less recoil based on firing position (userconfig: recoilMod = 1).

- Recoil is increased for wounded AI units (userconfig: recoilMod = 1).

- Added option to debug the gunshot hearing aid feature on screen (userconfig: gunshothearing_debug = 0).

- Merged asr_ai_c_aigrenadierfix pbo with asr_ai_c_airof

- Units unable to walk/run (wounded legs) are removed from their group unless they are healed in some time (userconfig: split_legged = 300).

- They will also be excluded from group consolidation.

- Optimised smoke throwing.

- Lower stance for higher building positions, also snipers stay in them more.

- Excluded a few buildings from the AI house patrol feature.

this looks Armalicious! Really nice touch on the splitting the guy with wounded leg, hate to have the team split up because of 1 AI.

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Aha it brings into sharp relief punji stakes used by the VC to maim their opponents.

This all sounds brilliant.

I can only hope that it's not buggy and/or subtle enough not to unbalance existing missions.

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this looks Armalicious! Really nice touch on the splitting the guy with wounded leg, hate to have the team split up because of 1 AI.

How can you split your group?

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this looks Armalicious! Really nice touch on the splitting the guy with wounded leg, hate to have the team split up because of 1 AI.

The main reason for this was that the whole AI group was slowed down to crawling speed when moving from point A to point B whenever they had some guy that spawned on a roof and broke his legs or had some other type of accident right from the start :) It not going to happen for player led groups and it can be set in userconfig (0 to disable, otherwise time until wounded guy leaves the group).

---------- Post added at 20:08 ---------- Previous post was at 19:50 ----------

I can only hope that it's not buggy and/or subtle enough not to unbalance existing missions.

The main objective of the mod is to enhance the AI so playing against them is likely a lot harder on some missions. The one on one engagements are always balanced in favor of the players, but most coop missions have the player assets vastly outnumbered by the enemy AI.

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Version 1.15 of the mod is ready and going to be tested tonight hopefully (if enough people show up to play on the AS server where it's installed to give me proper feedback).

Here's the (unexpectedly big ) changelog:

- AI uses a lower stance in combat - crouch more, shoot from prone with MG, AR, sniper rifles or other weapons with bipods (ACE) (userconfig: stayLow = 1).

- Steadier AI machinegunners - less recoil based on firing position (userconfig: recoilMod = 1).

- Recoil is increased for wounded AI units (userconfig: recoilMod = 1).

- Added option to debug the gunshot hearing aid feature on screen (userconfig: gunshothearing_debug = 0).

- Merged asr_ai_c_aigrenadierfix pbo with asr_ai_c_airof

- Units unable to walk/run (wounded legs) are removed from their group unless they are healed in some time (userconfig: split_legged = 300).

- They will also be excluded from group consolidation.

- Optimised smoke throwing.

- Lower stance for higher building positions, also snipers stay in them more.

- Excluded a few buildings from the AI house patrol feature.

Yay!! Lots of good looking new features there. Cant wait to play with it. And the abandoning of units with leg injuries is a good idea as there will be less room for error when synchronizing ai movements.

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I have ASR AI Addons installed, and I'm having some weird issues playing Markb50Ks "Lost" mod. To be fair, the issues did occur before I installed ASR AI, but they do seem to be a bit more regular now. So on the off chance that it is possibly related to ASR AI, _or_ in case anyone has any suggestions for parameter settings that might help to get around this, I will quote myself from my (extensive) description of the problems over in the Lost thread.

Some of the High Command Management features I describe are not vanilla, and I think they came from Clayman's Zero mod that Markb50k based his mission/mod on.

http://forums.bistudio.com/forumdisplay.php?86-ARMA-2-amp-OA-USER-MISSIONS/page79&order=desc

I have to admit, I'm completely befuddled by the "Regroup" and "Return to Formation" commands. I seems to work differently than vanilla, though tbh I have not played enough vanilla OA in Warfare mode to know if the problem is really just with vanilla HC Group dynamics. It could also be Robalo's ASR AI mod (the only other mod I have running apart form CBA) but I kind've doubt that.

I finally figured out how I can switch from my player squad ("Own Group" in game terms) to a different squad (one of the so-called "HC Groups") that I've set up. I have about 16 troops divided into two squads ("Groups" in game terms), "Own Group" and "Group B." Each of these "Groups" consists of two fire teams of four soldiers: 1. Capt Squad Leader / Sgt Team Leader; 2. Corporal or Specialist Automatic-Gunner/Machinegunner; 3. Corporal or Specialist AT rifleman else Marksman; 4. Corporal or Specialist Grenadier.

In the case of my "Own Group" it looks like this:

1. Capt. Steven Shannon M-107 sniper

2. Cpl Zdislav M-249

3. Pvt Smith Javelin + M-16A4

4. Cpl Jones AK-74GL

5. Sgt Roberts Mk16 EGLM

6. Cpl Edwards M-249

7. Pvt Donnelly RPK

8. Cpl Ian M-16A4 RCO ACOG

"Group B" is set up in the same fashion except that, in place of the originally spawned player solider (Capt Steven Shannon) there is a random Capt "Team Leader" soldier; I don't understand why this soldier type is called a "Team Leader" and not a "Platoon Leader" or even "Company Commander" given he is a Capt and not a Master Sergeant, but oh well . . . a slight tangent: I have given up on "Officers." Those guys with bars on their icon just are worthless. If I put them in command of an actual squad ("Group") of soldiers they just go forging off on their own to certain death. In fact, I finally disposed of the one "Officer" I got from my latest startup. I put him in command of his own "Group" (consistin of him, himself and him) and let him go off on his own to end it in a flash of fury . . . I _think_ most of the "groups forging off on their own to do stupid shit" problem probably relates to this issue: the Group having a soldier that is equal or higher rank to the players starting soldier (Capt or higher) and therefore forging off on his own . . . but anyway back on topic.

As I say, I finally figured out how to take direct command of the "Group Leader" for my other groups "Group B" in the example outlined above. I can tell this squad to do various things successfully: Move There; Stop; Go Prone; Get up; etc. I can even switch to direct control of each of these soldiers in this group (e.g., F2, 0, 8, 3, 2). But what I cannot get them to do is to simply FOLLOW the goddamn Captain who obviously IS (or at least should be) in charge of the fricking SQUAD! ("Group"). I select all, and hit 0, 8, 3, 1 "Make Player Group Leader," to no avail . . . When I then select all and say "Regroup" #1 says: "All follow 5 (the Sgt who is supposed to be the leader of the second fire team in the squad). I try "Return to Formation" same effect. I swtich to direct player control of #5 and from this character it will sometimes say "All follow 2," sometimes follow 4, and once it said follow 1. However, as soon as I resumed control of #1 and moved off, they did not follow me, and when I said "Regroup" from #1 again it said "follow 5" again!!!

When I'm playing my originally spawned soldier (Steven Shannon) this doesn't seem to happen.

---------- Post added at 16:08 ---------- Previous post was at 15:39 ----------

Unfortunately, when you switch to control the Group Leader for another Group, your original Group Leader then forges off on his own and does his own thing . . . after painstakingly setting up my Own Group in Myskino for a house-to-house sweep of the village, but switching to one of the HC groups to fix his not moving, when I switch back to my HC Leader I find my toon has ran off to the ambulance I left near the cache and has driven it out of gas and most of my troops have moved to follow him *sigh* PVP is less annoying than this . . .

I REALLY like this mod. But I am reaching the conclusion that it is presently unplayable in the style that the design suggests it is intended for: assembling an ever larger force of soldiers, organized into effectve squads/platoons. Playing as a lone wolf solo fighter is doable (though obviously more difficult), and running a single squad up to about 15 or 20 also seems doable. A single "group" up to platoon size ( >25) and the AI soldiers are incredibly slow and sticky and they can literally spend an hour running into each other in a grid lock trying to follow their orders.

HC Groups sometimes follow commands and move along their assigned waypoints as directed. Other times they get part way and stop. Sometimes they just forge off on their own and get killed.

If it is just me and my lack of understanding of either vanilla High Command options, else me not getting how the Group Manager functions work I appreciate someone explaining to me or pointing me to a FAQ.

---------- Post added at 18:07 ---------- Previous post was at 16:08 ----------

I just had another "Group forging off on its own" that lead to group decimation. Incredibly annoying and as sad as it makes me to say it, basically makes the mod unplayable in a warfare type of mode.

It is day 1 of my most recent startup. I have ~30 troops divided into 3 groups of 8, 8, 8, and 3 or there abouts.

The group of 3 includes a valuable Engineer and a couple guys to guard him back at camp ("Group 3"). The first group of 8 is my player squad. The second group of eight is "Group 1," the third is "Group 2."

I'm doing a house-to-house sweep of Myshkino, provoking action to try to get the village support up. Group 1 is setup on the southern side of the road hiding in the forest set to "Danger" status in Line Formation. Group 2 is in the same posture on the north side. My player group is setup on the northwest side of the village progressing southeast along the road with snipers and an AT specialist setup outside the village to watch. I have all squad members set to STOP and then use 0-8-3-2 to progress through all squad members, moving each one manually into position to protect one another. When they are in position for the next couple of houses, I search, and when enemies spawn, usually one of the ~25 AI soldiers pointing at the center of the town from every angle will manage to down the enemy. However, this most recent time, a couple of spawns must have happened up on the hillside by Group 2 and before they killed him, the enemy killed the Team Leader.

The next thing I know, Group 2 has run 1.5km off toward the center of the map!?

I know that this is probably just from vanilla engine. It is possible that there is some kind of user error here, but I doubt it. I SOOO wanted to love this mod, and I do, except that it seems virtually impossible to effectively use the High Command features and coordinate multiple squads. They just keep ignoring orders and/or forging off on their own. The lack of the same commands for Groups as exist for soldiers in one's own group (e.g., STOP, Go Prone, etc.) is a real problem.

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- Recoil is increased for wounded AI units (userconfig: recoilMod = 1).

Is this for arm wounds only, or a general damage figure (I'm happy either way, just curious)?

Also, is anything regarding the new eye LOS introduced by BIS and worked on by SaOk likely to be in the next update?

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- Recoil is increased for wounded AI units (userconfig: recoilMod = 1).

Is this for arm wounds only, or a general damage figure (I'm happy either way, just curious)?

Same question here. Also, does the modified recoils require the beta with the new setunirecoil command or is it done in a defferent way?

Also, is anything regarding the new eye LOS introduced by BIS and worked on by SaOk likely to be in the next update?

That could be interesting... But I thought I heard that those things were pretty system intensive... could be wrong though.

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The main reason for this was that the whole AI group was slowed down to crawling speed when moving from point A to point B whenever they had some guy that spawned on a roof and broke his legs or had some other type of accident right from the start :) It not going to happen for player led groups and it can be set in userconfig (0 to disable, otherwise time until wounded guy leaves the group).

Not going to happen to player led group? Getting rid of the wounded AI is what I wanted so the rest of my team mates don't slow down for him. (Sounded cruel I know) :D

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