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polar bear

New Behavior Mode: CHARGE

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Units can be ordered to CHARGE on an enemy position.

CHARGE is a modification of the COMBAT behavior. It signals to units that they should attempt to make an aggressive advance on a position, temporarily putting aside their usual fear, and making them more likely to advance through open spaces, and less likely to seek cover. Upon completing a charge units will immediately revert to the combat behavior, and immediately seek cover. Units cannot sustain a charge for very long: A charge is a highly stressful activity for units, and it will fatigue them greatly. Units will only charge over relatively short distances, and upon completing the charge they will be exhausted, showing great signs of fatigue from the stress produced by the charge.

A charge is not guaranteed to be successful. Units will only actually carry out a charge when they have sufficient morale. Specifically, units will only charge when they are led by officers of sufficient rank, and they will only sustain the charge so long as the officer continues to lead them, and so long as they do not suffer inordinate casualties while charging. Should the officer be hit, or the squad suffer too many casualties while charging then the units will immediately seek cover and revert to the combat behavior.

A charge must therefore be used with care, by a commander who spots a strategic opportunity to seize valuable ground, or the necessity to cross an open space, such as seizing a beach head, despite the risks. For example, the commander may be aware that a key enemy defensive weapon has been destroyed, or identified a weakness in the enemy defenses. In such cases the commander may take the risk of ordering a charge. Of course if the commander is in error then the charging troops may be put in a highly vulnerable position, and cut down by machine gun fire. Thus a commander should generally only order a charge after having made arrangements for an appropriate amount of suppressive fire, and only when good intelligence is in hand.

Some types of units are more willing to charge than others. In general, armored units, or squads including an armored component, are more willing to charge than pure infantry squads, and will charge longer distances. On the other hand support units such as medics and engineers are highly unlikely to charge, and if they charge at all, will only do so over short distances before seeking cover.

Edited by Polar Bear

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ArmA isn't like WW2 where there were heroic soldiers fighting for their country. ArmA is today's soldiers who are pussies who would just call in an air-strike instead.

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ArmA isn't like WW2 where there were heroic soldiers fighting for their country. ArmA is today's soldiers who are pussies who would just call in an air-strike instead.

Absolutely true, so actually a modified combat mode which lets the group move faster and is less likely to stop and fire is more required for use when under heavy fire and/or retreating.

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Wouldn't it be awesome if you could just order human beings to stop being afraid?

That said, i agree there needs to an order to break contact that would allow a unit to withdrawal quickly under fire.

Edited by akd42

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You can't order human beings to stop being afraid, but with sufficient training and effective leadership you can indeed make them charge. Whether they follow that order or not, and for how long, depends on the quality of leadership and how well it's working.

Hence the restrictions I outlined.

Edited by Polar Bear

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ArmA isn't like WW2 where there were heroic soldiers fighting for their country. ArmA is today's soldiers who are pussies who would just call in an air-strike instead.

and than put unmanned tracked vehicles equipped with thermal scopes against poor people with WW2 rifle and children protecting their country ... all those "not-honor" weapons including sound weapons etc.

next ... they will charge, but money to wallet

thats why i like historic mods and i will be doing such

that time , soldiers really fought for ideas, country, honor... not "shooting ducks for money" :(

but i agree that for WW2/WW1 and cold-war missions your suggerstion for "behaviour agressive forward" would be nice in game

but not in "2010-2015" modern warfare mods ;)

you make a lot of suggestions to Arma, would be good if soldiers were strictly obeying formation like in OFP

cause now many times their not keeping formation breaks commanding

they get into my fire line, cause instead of being behind me, they go forward and ... i shoot someone by mistake when he gets into machinegun serie in c.q.b. missions (or die standing behind corner of building while i am sneaking and approaching to this building)

better cqb and better formation hold (in OFP "danger" behaviour 7-2 ) would be good

Edited by vilas

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Charge option would actually be cool - why? Because mission makers need it - simple. There are numerous reports on full out attacks carried out by fanatics in Africa, Iraq, Afghan and other hotspots around the globe. Not to mention drugged up soldiers who feel they are invincible... at least for that brief moment before you do a double tap ;)

This mode would also be useful for MP Coop where you need AI to organize and do a quick counter-attack. Usually they are too slow for that in all current modes.

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I've read in the newspapers about our lads charging in the stan... The option would be nice as long as its a rarity

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If you order your team to advance to an enemy position, they will move cautiously, engaging enemies that come into contact. If you order them to disregard there own safety and just keep moving, they will be mowed down by the enemy.

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While I agree that we really need a way to make these guys hurry (be it for a retreat or a straight assault), I'm not sure a new behaviour is the answer. Maybe it should be a new speed mode, though I'm also not sure about that. But at least it would be more generic as speed mode: together with combat mode "green" or even "blue" you could make units retreat easily, together with combat mode "yellow" or "red" you could make them attack fast and furiously.

Let me see; speedMode:

  • "LIMITED" (half speed)
  • "NORMAL" (full speed, maintain formation)
  • "FULL" (do not wait for any other units in formation)
  • "???" (do not care about anything, it's only me and the bullets. Run and gun (depeding on combat mode)!)

How about "RELENTLESS" or "REMORSELESS" as new speed mode? Ok... it's a bit awkward for a speed mode, I agree. But the point is that such a new mode (whatever mode it will be) should be really generic and thus widely useable. I'm afraid "CHARGE" is a bit too specific for that. At least I'd like to combine such a "relentless/fast" mode with different combat modes and behaviours too. So IMHO a new combatMode or behaviour is out of the question for this.

Aware, green/blue, relentless/fast == smiley-run.gif

Combat, red, relentless/fast == :uzi:

Stealth, green, relentless/fast == game_smilies_0019.gif

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Something like charging is commonplace in urban combat. When a group of soldiers enter a room, they generally all rush in together to get as many guns covering as many angles as quickly as possible.

That's perhaps different than charge, but an example of the sort of thing you can't currently model with the commands available with the AI today.

I do think modern soldiers charge, although they only do so when there is an expectation that the enemy has been temporarily suppressed. Sometimes it's not apparent to the ground troops whether that's true and they have to rely on their commander--hence charge is dependent on trust in command (morale, presence of an officer).

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I think it's a great idea. Especially seeing as the series is now including Takistani insurgents, like icebreakr said it'd be very good to simulate their style of combat. Hyped up by the idea of 72 virgins, they'd have their morale maxed out and be more than willing to engage on a crazy suicide attack against a blufor position.

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Charges are definitely used today by professional military, but they are so together with suppressive fire. You never assault something without a lot of suppression. And even then you'd preferably not assault from the front.

A squad can be micromanaged by a human leader to leapfrog with two fire teams and suppress an enemy position, but indeed it would be nice to get some built-in behaviour for it. The AI can... sort of do it atm with some people covering and some moving. A definite improvement over ArmA2. But there's still more to wish for :)

Other than it'd indeed be awesome with Soviet/China 'Cold War'-style human waves of rushing and gun-blazing enemies, overwhelming by sheer numbers.

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I think this could be better refined into a move order called something along the lines of "Assault". Maybe if you hold shift when issuing move commands. The unit gets the order to "assault that position" and moves forward agressively engaging all contacts until it is at the position.

Stag.

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While I agree that we really need a way to make these guys hurry (be it for a retreat or a straight assault), I'm not sure a new behaviour is the answer. Maybe it should be a new speed mode,

no

it must be behaviour

speed not works here

it must be "careless" for moving and "destroy" for shooting

cause at the moment they only run on "careless" but then not fire

when they fire, they sit for moment and aim

so i agree that this behaviour would be great for mission makers, would be little more OFPish, cause in OFP soldiers had such behaviour more than in Arma

in Arma soldiers are more care about moving

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While charging would be a more gallant way to die other than kneeling out in the open in a firefight i would prefer a "find good cover and stay there" behaviour, along with ruebe's 4th option while doing it.

But if they gonna charge then give them a war cry while they're doing it :D

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I think this could be better refined into a move order called something along the lines of "Assault". Maybe if you hold shift when issuing move commands. The unit gets the order to "assault that position" and moves forward agressively engaging all contacts until it is at the position.

Stag.

This is a quite nice idea. The AI focusing on the general area of the point, or the building itself they are ordered to assault, putting down suppressive fire with the cover group while the other group moves during bounding, and do so until they are there and can confirm 'target clear'.

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This mode would be suitable for substantial force counter attacking or making a suprise attack. A fine example is Tears from the Sun movie where 100s of rebels are hunting down a small US squad. Of course they don't kneel down and observe with binoculars... they are on the hunt and they need to be fast and aggresive in order to catch 'em.

If you have 100 men available and you order them to take out a small camp guarded by 5-10 men you expect them to hit hard and fast, not to stroll around so the defendors can pick your men one by one. If you're a leader of such large force you need to pump your men to do what they're told to do - and that is a role of a mission maker to make a such decision for AI. So I again vote for the new mode that could be called "blitzkrieg".

Edited by IceBreakr

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The command everyone here is looking for is the "advance" command in the movement menu.

command menu ... but can you make such cutscene/SP mission with such attack ???

you can order YOUR team as commander (if they will listen to you and not kneel/prone 100 meters behind you ), but you CAN'T take part in such mission as a player/observer

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  • "LIMITED" (half speed)
  • "NORMAL" (full speed, maintain formation)
  • "FULL" (do not wait for any other units in formation)
  • "???" (do not care about anything, it's only me and the bullets. Run and gun (depeding on combat mode)!)

Well 'Safe' mode makes them ignore enemies; but there's still no 'run and gun' mode :/

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I agree charge should be implemented into the game. While some may say "ArmA is today's soldiers who are pussies who would just call in an air-strike instead. " I'd like to see the Takistani Militia call in an air-strike. I think of the Takistani Militia as the Taliban - and the Taliban have been known to show no regard for their lives and run in the open.

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Yeah I was thinking a behavior would be appropriate so it could be used either by a player commander in game, or else by a mission designer in setting up a waypoint.

In any case we need a way to order AI to aggressively move on a position both as an in game commander and as a mission designer however it's done.

There's any number of reasons why:

-- Belief that you have overwhelming force

-- Stupid militia charging because they lack training ("charge of the light brigade")

-- Commander has identified an opportunity to seize a key point (main enemy gun knocked out, e.g.)

-- Another group is laying down sufficient suppressive fire

-- The strategic position simply requires it, whatever the cost (being surrounded)

There are also cases like over-riding poor AI decisions. For example, if the AI come under fire wall crossing a runway at an airport they attempt to "take cover" by lying on the tarmac, and are subsequently picked off as sitting ducks. Ordering them to charge off the runway to a better position is not a poor decision at all, despite that they will be moving under fire. In this case their normal safe/cautious combat movement is completely inappropriate--you need them to run like hell to the safer position while still shooting back at any targets of opportunity.

I'm sure there are many more uses.

Presumably in this "CHARGE" mode they should also run in a somewhat evasive pattern, zig zagging and crouching to try and avoid getting shot, sprinting from bush to bush, or tree to tree, and taking brief rests behind cover, the way a player would, but making it quick.

Edited by Polar Bear

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I think of the Takistani Militia as the Taliban - and the Taliban have been known to show no regard for their lives and run in the open.

Are you sure about that? Maybe they're just not trained. :p

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