Can we please stop AI from attacking empty vehicles etc.?

[arthur666 10]

So... Enemy UAZ drives up, my AI SL tells my sniper to attack. Driver is killed and Sniper just sits there firing his rifle into the vehicle until he's out of ammo. Same thing happens with Warfare-style MG nests. Can we change it so empty vehicles aren't targeted?

[ESheppard 10]

Yeah, reminds me of the problem where Apaches keep on firing at destroyed targets until they're out of ammo. Obviously, it's a bug that needs to be addressed.

[tyler4171 10]

You do have to admit not only is it annoying but its also pretty humorous to see an Apache light up a dead pickup with insurgents around it :)

[HyperU2 11]

Yeah this definitely makes it hell on salvaging OPFOR armor, AI isn't happy until it blows up.

[SPC.Spets 21]

make a ticket, I vote to fix this

[Txheat 10]

agree, in warfare i took a opfor pickup and my ai unloaded on me because i had told them to attack it earlyer.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

I think it should still be the default behavior. If they knowsAbout no enemies, then they should stop, otherwise that gun or vehicle is still to be considered hostile. They should react to no target and ceasefire commands though from a human leader, but that thinking stuff is obviously hard to achieve on AI level.

Salvaging opfor equipment? Wtf? Other than cars I doubt US personnel is trained on handling it, and most likely wouldn't get into them for the obvious other reason - blue on blue. It's supposed to be a realistic game, let's start playing it like one...

[HyperU2 11]

Realistic game, there's a nice oxymoron. Worry about yourself.

For the record I'm referring to Warfare, you know that ultra realistic game mode where I'm awarded $75 for killing an enemy rifleman so I can purchase team mates. Just like in the military.

Edited August 14, 2010 by HyperU2

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Lol, say what? For the record I don't play Warfare, for a reason. Some kind of solution, no problem. But don't "fix" something for the unrealistic game modes if that affects the more realistic game modes in a bad way.

Anything with a working gun on it should be considered hostile, that's how it is in the real world, and that's how it should be in the game. Setcaptive on the vehicle, or disengage target - no problem. But not vanilla behavior.

[NoRailgunner 0]

CarlGustaffa -take a break or get some (moar) sleep! :p

Imho its the same or very similar bug/issue that doesnt stop the AI shooting at already destroyed/dead vehicles/units. Its very annoying if there are still enemies around...

Or would you say its realistic to shoot on vehicles even if driver/crew is not alive/heavily wounded and there are higher threats around?

[enforcer1975 0]

Realistic game, there's a nice oxymoron. Worry about yourself.

For the record I'm referring to Warfare, you know that ultra realistic game mode where I'm awarded $75 for killing an enemy rifleman so I can purchase team mates. Just like in the military.

Yeah, you would rather sit there whining why you don't get equipment or gather teams to fight, won't you? :p

But i get your point. The whole awarding thing sucks a bit.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

No it should be low priority. I guess if you were at the vehicle/weapon and was starting to be overrun, rendering it useless should become a priority, but I don't see that coming any day soon to Arma. Ages ago I tried some fsm approach to overcome the problem, at least on a conceptual level, but I found the "AIs thought process" to be a bit more than I could handle at the time.

Basically, a scripted/fsm method to "handle threats" became quite complex, with all those buts and ifs interfering. So if it can be done at a realistic level, without too much cost then I agree - fix it. But not handling empty vehicles/guns as a threat at all is too simplistic and not where I want it to go.

I don't know. I'm starting to turn a bit. Maybe the best approach is to script it for the realistic way instead, because that way we can at least control how destruction is accomplished. I mean, you wouldn't let a machinegunner go amok on a car until it explodes if you have some explosives around.

So for now, if anything, I'd prefer it to be something we could control in some ways. Maybe it's wanted for Warfare, but I want automatic desire for destruction on enemy AI at least in my own missions. Even if it's not the best kind of destruction. At least they will be a pain in the ass for us :)

[dmarkwick 261]

I think I'm with CarlGustaffa on this one, with some reservations. I agree that empty vehicles provide a threat if the AI does not perceive a bigger threat, I'm betting it's realistic behavior to to destroy a vehicle unless you are 100% sure that it's empty and not likely to become a threat. As Carl said, order to disengage is probably the best way to handle this situation.

On a related note, I wish I could get a Javelin carrier to attack a vehicle without using up his precious Javelin. Like, if I order him to engage a truck I should be able to specify what he attacks with. Maybe that sounds a little niggly but I'm often annoyed when the javelin carrier, who's job is to engage the Shilka, takes out a UAZ instead :D It might also stop snipers using up rounds on BMPs etc too :)

[NoRailgunner 0]

Sorry dont understand how an empty vehicle/(static) gun in A2AO should be a threat or should be handled as one? Care to elaborate - without IFs? :)

"Disengage" doesnt work in this situation for AI in players group.

AI in non-player groups keeps shooting on empty vehicles/guns too...

AI and their use of weapons + tactics - only AI developers do understand.

[dmarkwick 261]

An empty vehicle/gun can be reoccupied. It just makes sense to disable enemy equipment. Also, it's reasonable to assume that a vehicle that looks empty may not be empty, I mean, in a RL situation I'm sure suspicious vehicles would be targeted as a precaution.

Edited August 14, 2010 by DMarkwick

[HyperU2 11]

Yeah, you would rather sit there whining why you don't get equipment or gather teams to fight, won't you? :p

But i get your point. The whole awarding thing sucks a bit.

I'm pretty new to Warfare and I'm glad I've waited, it's given new life to the game. I don't hate the system, I just don't treat that game mode with the same realism as the rest. It's fun though. :)

[SPC.Spets 21]

It could be simple, AI detects taht that vehicle doesnt have any unit alive on it, and then stop firing at that. Doesnt look complicated. Also when the AI attacks an armor vehicle with a machinegun instead the canon of the tank, the computer doesnt have even to see that unit, because its a computar, all the data is just there

[ESheppard 10]

It's like this. You don't shoot at empty vehicles when there are other enemies around. Furthermore, you don't shoot at empty vehicles with small arms, for the love of god. Lay a charge or use grenades or an AT weapon if you can spare the ammunition. But don't shoot it with bullets, that's stupid. BI should stop AI doing that.

[Cotala Studios 10]

And for the record carl, although i agree that people in the real world wouldnt steal a t90 if the crew bailed,

1) its a game

2)its a game, you cant tell other people how they should and shouldn't play it

3) I'm pretty sure that its also pretty unrealistic that US troops in the mountains of afghanistan, not knowing what awaits them on the ride home, would unload every last ounce of their ammunition on a pickup truck that stopped shooting at them after the first 20 rounds were fired.

the bug should obviously be fixed, but i'm sure that BIS or a brilliant modder is aware of it, and working on a solution

[arthur666 10]

An empty vehicle/gun can be reoccupied. It just makes sense to disable enemy equipment.

True, but in RL you wouldn't sit there and fire single shots into an empty pickup-truck while your squad moved over the next ridge to their evac point, would you? You might shoot the tires at least, but I don't think the AI could handle targeting vehicle components. Better to keep them from trying such nonsense.

Also, it's reasonable to assume that a vehicle that looks empty may not be empty, I mean, in a RL situation I'm sure suspicious vehicles would be targeted as a precaution.

Fair enough, but after you put 50 or so rounds thru a soft vehicle like a UAZ, you should assume you're done and move on. And even then, only an auto-rifleman or machinegunner should do this, not a sniper or rifleman.

Edited August 14, 2010 by arthur666

[CarlGustaffa 4]

The UAZ isn't the problem, the MG on top of it is. So shooting out the tires doesn't make it safe, only non drivable. AI crew will bail such a vehicle automatically. But players know better - that gun is still operational and highly lethal. Make it burn, and the gun can no longer cause problems.

But yeah, only machinegunners or scripted satchels. Give units satchels and they will try to blow up things. Unfortunately they have a bad tendency of blowing up half the squad in the process :(

[ceeeb 147]

This bug has been reported on the CIT: 5183

[NoRailgunner 0]

CarlGustaffa and DMarkwick you are both a bit wrong - any empty vehicle is basically no high threat unless other informations received.

In A2OA the AI should shoot only IF enemies in close range are getting in and using vehicles/guns >> changing threat priority to high.

It doesnt make any sense to open fire on destroyed or abandoned vehicles/static guns unless its ordered by team/group leader.

[arthur666 10]

...Unfortunately (the AIs) have a bad tendency of blowing up half the squad in the process :(

Yeah, I've just started to get used to those fools tossing grenades everywhere. Lord help us if we let them use satchels too. :D

This bug has been reported on the CIT: 5183

Thanks!

Edited August 15, 2010 by arthur666