Project Reality - WIP Discussion

[clawhammer 10]

UK_Force;2010708']It amazes me how nearly 80% of this thread is spent discussing how/why and the legalities of ripping this MOD apart to use as people want' date=' instead of discussing the actual Mod itself.[/quote'] Maybe because its new that a mod works with such restrictions Oo

UK_Force;2010708']The server issue' date=' is covered using a server whitelist on our realitymod host, that will cross reference with the client. Meaning if a client attempts to join a non official PR server (ie not on the whitelist), the screen will black out and he will be unable to join.

[/quote']

Thats bad for LAN-Server on LAN Parties with no internet conncection, will there be a legit work around?

[gossamersolid 155]

Enough of this server mumbo jumbo! Force, how is the gameplay going in terms of Rubberbanding when most players are fairly local to the Server(damn i mentioned server)?

Why do people keep assuming that PR can magically re-write the netcode for ArmA 2? It's a mod, they don't have a license to the engine and have made a standalone product.

UK_Force;2010708']It amazes me how nearly 80% of this thread is spent discussing how/why and the legalities of ripping this MOD apart to use as people want' date=' instead of discussing the actual Mod itself.

.[/quote']

It's amazing that you guys treat a mod like a commercial product and expect the A2 community to stand by the same restrictions that the BF2 community deals with.

Edited August 25, 2011 by GossamerSolid

[draakon 11]

It amazes how everyone is bashing each other and jumping to conclusions without playing the mod.

[Rak 0]

Well I can't wait for this mod. Hopefully it'll be picked up by the community.

[NoRailgunner 0]

PR Mod will fail or not - depending on how much people will like these PR agreements + gameplay. :yin-yang:

[ray243 11]

UK_Force;2010563']There will be nothing "technically" stopping you do this no.

Of course you may do what you want in the editor' date=' and in private for your own use as per the EULA....

However the EULA, and the Signed Legal Agreement with Bohemia - will mean you can not make these available to the public.

This is the same for the whole of the PR Team. ie even the Developers MUST sign this individual Legal agreement, before they work on PR: ARMA2.

This means providing non offical servers with "bits" of PR, Missions to the public with "bits" of PR etc etc will NOT legaly be allowed.

All of our Assets, as per the Legal Agreement have had to be watermarked, and covered under the legal agreement we have in place. Otherwise the spread of BAF assets would be ridiculous for Bohemia.

The only way to "release" missions for PR, is via speaking with our team.

The only way to "legally" run a server with ANY PR assets, is via signing for a server licence - where you will then agree to the terms and conditions to allow you to run a PURE PR Server.

Failure to do this will mean you are in violation of our EULA, and also will put you in a Legal problem with Bohemia.

.[/quote']

Thanks for replying.

[hund 0]

Now, now calm down everyone. I think it is just a clash of cultures. Arma fanboiz are just used to being able to mess around with everything they get their hands on, so when someone says they can't do that they get a little upset, thats all.

I am sure it will turn out alright for everyone. The fanboiz will take a look under the hood once they get the addons, but the integrity of the mod will stand, at least on the servers where it is needed the most. There will certainly be "bootleg" servers (I can't believe I'm using that term in arma) but they will be closed to all but a few select people of a gaming group/clan/whatever.

Edited August 25, 2011 by Hund

[craig.turner 10]

On a decent server spec with low Pings, its fine.

Again a lot depends on pings and the actual server specs, which we have trialled various specs to test them (Details of which will follow)

For the release we will have 4 official PR servers running, all are high spec and will cover most parts of the world, apart from Asia, as one dropped out last min.

To run just these servers for the first 4 weeks, will hopefully ensure decent amounts of players on them, which in turn will give us good feedback.

Thats bad for LAN-Server on LAN Parties with no internet conncection, will there be a legit work around?

Nope, the LAN Factor has already been taken into consideration, and it will have no effect on hosting/running a LAN server at all.

.

Edited August 25, 2011 by Craig.Turner

[Bee8190 10]

Maybe because its new that a mod works with such restrictions Oo

Maybe becouse PR team wants to ENSURE its played as THEY intended?

PR Mod will fail or not - depending on how much people will like these PR agreements + gameplay. :yin-yang:

I see no single reason why PR should fail, PR-BF2 has a huge fan base and no doubt will be any different with PR-arma2.

If anything it will be the player base that failed, perhaps as in arma current MP situation.

UK force, PR team and all PR contributors;

You did absolutely amazing job from in my opinion dying BF2 game and brought new life to it by creating PR-BF2 mod, with teamwork and tactical necessity to survive to an extend i yet to see in any other game to date.

I've been anxiously waiting for this mod, knowing that the scale of arma combined with PR gameplay would bring the ultimate combat experience, where team work and proper tactics applied ensure the team survival.

Reality mod is not just a mod, in my eyes it is a team fighting as one huge clan.

PR until I die!

[hund 0]

PR until I die!

I can help you with that.

See ya on the servers ;D

I would however beg to differ that PR is the ultimate combat experience. It has too many systems to ensure that everyone tows the line. Surely that game Arma is the ultimate combat experience, at least when everyone tows the line (which happens rarely because there are absolutely no systems to ensure such a thing).

Edited August 25, 2011 by Hund

[craig.turner 10]

lol, I will let you continue to discuss, we have work to do to get this BETA release out now ;)

.

[Bee8190 10]

@Hund

I sure am looking forward to friendly match ;) although as you might know in PR teams operate as number of squads, so you better don't come alone as you might soon be looking for rage quit button:p

Edited August 25, 2011 by Bee8190

[hund 0]

Ain't so such thing as a friendly match, noob. ;D

[galzohar 31]

UK_Force;2010708']It amazes me how nearly 80% of this thread is spent discussing how/why and the legalities of ripping this MOD apart to use as people want' date=' instead of discussing the actual Mod itself.

[/quote']

How are you amazed? They do not yet have any bugs, gameplay or balance issues to discuss! Once those are available (hint hint), they will be discussed to death, a lot more than any discussion of legality. Trust me on this one! :)

[dslyecxi 23]

The STHud we use is also 100% ours, and if anything is a little better.

The fact that you just referred to it as "the STHud we use" is amusing, I must say.

I find it interesting that for the actual original PR mod, the BF2 HUD was taken away for "realism" purposes. Come ArmA2 time, and looking at what the ArmA2 community has done and what has proven successful for it, your team decided to rip off STHUD rather blatantly. Same color scheme, same HUD location (both of which differ from PR:BF2, which one would assume would be the root inspiration for PR:A2 content). But hey, whatever - the concept of such a HUD is not unique; the particular way ours works, which is group-only, without terrain, and with a name list, is. How much that has been copied by the PR:A2 version remains to be seen. Whether any credit re: inspiration will be cited for the obvious aspects that have been copied from our HUD likewise remains to be seen.

As to your comments about the PRA2 one being "a little better (if anything)", heh. We aimed to make STHUD do one particular task very well, and it has accomplished that magnificently. I won't nitpick the differences that I've seen so far (the "new" stuff seems like fluff features to me, but YMMWV), but I can simply state the following - the one thing that STHUD will always have over PRA2 is that any person in the world using ArmA2 or Operation Arrowhead has the opportunity to use STHUD with any mod set that they feel like playing, without restriction, whenever the fancy strikes them.

Can't quite say that with a restricted modset like PRA2, eh? ;)

[MadTommy 0]

The fact that you just referred to it as "the STHud we use" is amusing, I must say.

I find it interesting that for the actual original PR mod, the BF2 HUD was taken away for "realism" purposes. Come ArmA2 time, and looking at what the ArmA2 community has done and what has proven successful for it, your team decided to rip off STHUD rather blatantly. Same color scheme, same HUD location (both of which differ from PR:BF2, which one would assume would be the root inspiration for PR:A2 content). But hey, whatever - the concept of such a HUD is not unique; the particular way ours works, which is group-only, without terrain, and with a name list, is. How much that has been copied by the PR:A2 version remains to be seen. Whether any credit re: inspiration will be cited for the obvious aspects that have been copied from our HUD likewise remains to be seen.

As to your comments about the PRA2 one being "a little better (if anything)", heh. We aimed to make STHUD do one particular task very well, and it has accomplished that magnificently. I won't nitpick the differences that I've seen so far (the "new" stuff seems like fluff features to me, but YMMWV), but I can simply state the following - the one thing that STHUD will always have over PRA2 is that any person in the world using ArmA2 or Operation Arrowhead has the opportunity to use STHUD with any mod set that they feel like playing, without restriction, whenever the fancy strikes them.

Can't quite say that with a restricted modset like PRA2, eh?

oh dear.. point scoring is it. :rolleyes:

The difference should be obvious to someone of your experience, the difference is the end goal. But i'm not going to get it to that, the goal of PR has been stated so many times i won't waste my time trying to explain it to you.

According to your argument every game since the 1st FPS has ripped of it's predecessor in some way or another. PR are very aware of the similarities.. it works well so why reinvent the wheel, they wanted a similar HUD so they made one from scratch, you should take it as a compliment. ;)

Edited August 25, 2011 by MadTommy
typo

[hund 0]

Hehe, Dslyecxi is getting all nasty. I never knew you had it in you. :D

(I'm kidding. I knew).

[maddogx 13]

The fact that you just referred to it as "the STHud we use" is amusing, I must say.

I believe in their case the "ST" stands for "squad tactical".

And didn't we already cover this topic a while back? Frankly, I'm getting sick of all the posturing, condecension and outright petulance coming from this community. How's about we just discuss the mod until it's released?

[dslyecxi 23]

I believe in their case the "ST" stands for "squad tactical".

I doubt it - the options list is as "squad radar". It is what it is, and playing word games won't change that.

And didn't we already cover this topic a while back? Frankly, I'm getting sick of all the posturing, condecension and outright petulance coming from this community. How's about we just discuss the mod until it's released?

Apparently we all have things that we're sick of re: the PR/A2 crossover conversations.

[dmarkwick 261]

Do we have any idea how many potential servers have applied for licenses?

[noubernou 77]

UK_Force;2010603']No' date=' hence I said EULA & the Legal Agreement with Bohemia

ie, The BAF stuff will be covered by the agreement

The EULA will cover our assets as "our responsibility" .

PR: ARMA2 is not an addon we have created to be stripped apart by the community as they wish, its a PvP game mode - hence we want our work protected.

The whole reasoning for PR: ARMA2 was to enhance the MP area, and keep it simple with not having to worry about 6000 addons to play on a server.

There always seems to be a huge debate around this area, when actually its quite simple, we don't want our work ripped apart - that is our decision.

realitystudios, which is our commercial side also has these assets available for the Game industry, and this is another reason for preventing them being ripped out.

It has been proven over the years, that one of the main problems with ARMA2 [u']Public[/u] MP, is the fact that Mods/add ons are stripped apart, diluted with other mods, making 1 - it hard for the public to play on the server, and 2 - possible errors when combining mods which throw up errors/bugs on the servers.

PR is attempting to come at this at another angle, and be able to provide ONE Mod that is simple to join and play PvP, without all the problems I have mentioned.

If you do not agree, or like this concept then please look elsewhere for something that may suit your style of gaming.

Its all about choices, which surely is a good thing. :D

.

Cool, but nothing your EULA says (it can say it, doesn't mean it works ;)) can stop anyone though from running PR unmodified with additional content, and probably little could be done seriously about making post initialization modification to your functions to allow additional content. You are giving away the product for free, and as long as no one is making profit off of it, including yourself (you aren't right, because you know, that violates BIS's EULA for using this platform ;)) I doubt you'd have very little recourse to go after someone. As long as people are not redistributing your content specifically they aren't harming you, and since you are not making any money off of this it'd be very hard to collect damages on diluting your name/trademarks or whatever you think additional content would cause.

Cool that you are trying to make a "pure" game mode, but trying to lock it down is going to fail horribly in this community, because thats not what it has been about for a lot longer than PR has been around.

[BeerHunter 0]

WTH is all this rambling about using other mods with PR??

All those different mods on various servers are a major contributing factor as to why ArmA2 online is a shambles.

PR brings a simple solution. If you have it you can play. If you don't , you can't.

No need to go searching for and/or waiting for various mods to download and install before you can even JOIN a server.

[maddogx 13]

Apparently we all have things that we're sick of re: the PR/A2 crossover conversations.

That much is clear, as evidenced by the number of needlessly aggressive posts that pop up in this thread whenever an official announcement is made. It's almost comical.

For lack of a better word, I'm sensing a lot of "butthurt" from certain elements of the Arma2 community with regard to PR. It seems that the combination of "doing things differently" (monolithic mod, no new "toys" out of it) and getting a comparatively large amount of support from BI (special licenses, access to DLC MLODs), aswell as coming from a BF2 background gets people backs up around here and turns an otherwise helpful and friendly community into something else entirely.

I don't think there's a single other thread in this forum that entices such a nauseatingly self-entitled, dickish and condescending elitism from the Arma2 community quite as regularly as this one does (perhaps with the exception of the DR/RR thread). Like I said before, I'm sick of it, and to be honest also a little embarrassed.

Edited August 25, 2011 by MadDogX

[hund 0]

I wouldn't take it too seriously tho, dude. It's internet people being internetty.

[st_dux 26]

It seems that the combination of "doing things differently" (monolithic mod, no new "toys" out of it) and getting a comparatively large amount of support from BI (special licenses, access to DLC MLODs), aswell as coming from a BF2 background gets people backs up around here and turns an otherwise helpful and friendly community into something else entirely.

No one is up in arms because a mod is doing things differently, nor does anyone care that PR comes from a BF2 background. This community has always embraced creative modification of the ArmA engine. We might not all like all of the mods that are offered, but by and large, this community recognizes the value in the free exchange of ideas, missions, addons and mods; it is this exchange that enriches both the content that is available to players and the knowledge that is available to developers to create even more.

The problem is not the freedom of the exchange of ideas; it is the attempts to restrict that exchange through draconian license agreements and mandatory exclusivity. This runs counter to the spirit of openness that has been the hallmark of the ArmA/OFP community and the mechanism by which mod developers have shared knowledge and combined efforts leading to the robust set of content and resources we all enjoy today. I believe this attitude of exclusivity, more than anything, is what rubs people the wrong way when it comes to PR in ArmA.