Project Reality - WIP Discussion

[Darkhorse 1-6 16]

Actually, in the battle of Fallujah there was a marine (He later became a sniper but he was just a low enlisted grunt at the time) who picked up an RPG and a bunch of rounds after telling his Sergeant he could operate it. (He lied :D) He then proceeded to launch RPG after RPG into a couple buildings that the insurgents had holed up in.

Generally, a soldier has been trained to use assault rifles, machineguns, grenade launchers, rocket launchers, possibly even sniper rifles. It may take a bit for them to get used to a new weapon, but if, say, your M-16 runs dry and your in deep shit, you can pick up a nearby AK-47, maybe take a second to figure out the safety, but you are then ready to rock & roll.

Edited October 14, 2010 by Darkhorse 1-6

[Smurf 12]

If you look at realism then every soldier can use an enemy weapon but not neccessarily operate it.

If im not wrong, thats a feature from the upcoming BF2:PR release. Only simple "rifleman" classes can be picked up by enemies.

I agree on that with "hi-tech" stuff such as Javelins/Metis , Iglas\Stingers, TWSs, even Carl Gustav and on.

But for disposable rocket launchers as AT-4\RPG and rifles (even snipers\marksman) shouldn´t be any limitation, afterall those weapons are designed to be easy to use (not so much to maintain).

[gazzthompson 10]

The PR team recently released the change log for the PR:BF2, in this they removed the ability to use "special" kits (MG's, heavy AT, snipers etc).

Here is why:

http://www.realitymod.com/forum/f196-pr-highlights/88565-changelog-project-reality-v0-95-features-list-18.html#post1462396

Now of course, this does not mean Arma will have the same type or any system at all like this, but it gives you an idea of the PR management teams thinking on the subject.

[LugNut 10]

The PR team recently released the change log for the PR:BF2, in this they removed the ability to use "special" kits (MG's, heavy AT, snipers etc).

Here is why:

That makes complete sense to me. I could see picking up or destroying kits to keep them from falling back into enemy hands though.

[craig.turner 10]

Another Small Update to show one of the Maps and its progress:

Edited October 14, 2010 by Craig.Turner

[craig.turner 10]

A few more:

Along with a small video from the LAN, and trying out PR: ArmA2 - Beta

http://www.vimeo.com/15744809

.

Edited October 14, 2010 by Craig.Turner

[Binkowski 25]

hi project reality, i have a question. i love what you are doing, but can you please make a pmc addition to your mod??? that would be awesome! make sure you don't forget to make all shotguns able to shoot high explosive shells! thanks :)

[b00ce 160]

The PR team recently released the change log for the PR:BF2, in this they removed the ability to use "special" kits (MG's, heavy AT, snipers etc).

Here is why:

http://www.realitymod.com/forum/f196-pr-highlights/88565-changelog-project-reality-v0-95-features-list-18.html#post1462396

Now of course, this does not mean Arma will have the same type or any system at all like this, but it gives you an idea of the PR management teams thinking on the subject.

I can see this, and fully support it, for say heavy AT (Such as a Javelin, Dragon, Metis etc.) but if you know how to operate an MG, you can extrapolate that knowledge pretty well. It's not like an M249 and a PKM are all that different, the only noticeable differences being the location of things and they'll look similar. Same goes for sniper rifles, if you've ever shot a gun in your life you'll be able to pick up a finely tuned sniper's rifle and shoot decent groupings with it.

I suggest making the other team's weapon aim slower and have a slight shake slightly because the person is not used to it. Adding a shake to sniper rifles, especially for classes that don't use them, would mitigate the issue of someone becoming a 1337 haxxor sniper AND allow for a player to pick up an enemy weapon in desperation & use it semi-effectively in a pinch. It's not like small arms require a PHD in astrophysics to use, they have been designed for ease of use. I think making classes handle certain weapons better than others is far better than removing any possibility of being able to salvage a situation.

It should also be noted that I believe the M136 AT4 and RPG-7/ 18 are light AT. For starters, instructions on the use of the M136 are printed on the launcher tube, and pretty much all US soldiers are given familiarization "training" on the operation of enemy weapons (Just in case they need to use them.) so using an RPG isn't out of the question. The story on the top of the page where a US soldier picked up an RPG, lied to his squad leader about being trained to use it when he wasn't, and used it with great effect is a great example. It seems that the most training you need with these weapons would be familiarizing yourself with the sights and the trajectory of the round (This goes for all weapons too), which you have to do in game regardless of whether you pick it up from a dead guy or spawn with it. This can be done on the fly I suppose.

Just my 2 cents.

Edited October 14, 2010 by b00ce

[craig.turner 10]

I like this idea a lot ;)

I suggest making the other team's weapon aim slower and have a slight shake slightly because the person is not used to it. Adding a shake to sniper rifles, especially for classes that don't use them, would mitigate the issue of someone becoming a 1337 haxxor sniper

[Monkey Lib Front 10]

Mastiff and maps are looking great, although i'm probably right in thinking i'll be down bovi before this gets to public release. (Start ATR Bassingbourn in 4 weeks :) )

[craig.turner 10]

Mastiff and maps are looking great, although i'm probably right in thinking i'll be down bovi before this gets to public release.

You may see me indeed then, I'll be at Bovington waiting for you ... lol. :D

[Monkey Lib Front 10]

LOL, back to hibernation i go.

PS do i get to go on VBS if i'm going CR2 Crewman?

[craig.turner 10]

LOL, back to hibernation i go.

PS do i get to go on VBS if i'm going CR2 Crewman?

You may, but its not actually in the courseware yet, although the D&M school are using it in their Simulators now, for CR2 Driver training.

I'll be one of your Warrant Officers at the CIS School when you get here ;)

[gazzthompson 10]

I can see this, and fully support it, for say heavy AT (Such as a Javelin, Dragon, Metis etc.) but if you know how to operate an MG, you can extrapolate that knowledge pretty well. It's not like an M249 and a PKM are all that different, the only noticeable differences being the location of things and they'll look similar. Same goes for sniper rifles, if you've ever shot a gun in your life you'll be able to pick up a finely tuned sniper's rifle and shoot decent groupings with it.

I suggest making the other team's weapon aim slower and have a slight shake slightly because the person is not used to it. Adding a shake to sniper rifles, especially for classes that don't use them, would mitigate the issue of someone becoming a 1337 haxxor sniper AND allow for a player to pick up an enemy weapon in desperation & use it semi-effectively in a pinch. It's not like small arms require a PHD in astrophysics to use, they have been designed for ease of use. I think making classes handle certain weapons better than others is far better than removing any possibility of being able to salvage a situation.

It should also be noted that I believe the M136 AT4 and RPG-7/ 18 are light AT. For starters, instructions on the use of the M136 are printed on the launcher tube, and pretty much all US soldiers are given familiarization "training" on the operation of enemy weapons (Just in case they need to use them.) so using an RPG isn't out of the question. The story on the top of the page where a US soldier picked up an RPG, lied to his squad leader about being trained to use it when he wasn't, and used it with great effect is a great example. It seems that the most training you need with these weapons would be familiarizing yourself with the sights and the trajectory of the round (This goes for all weapons too), which you have to do in game regardless of whether you pick it up from a dead guy or spawn with it. This can be done on the fly I suppose.

Just my 2 cents.

PRs decision to completely remove ability to use them was because most if not all of what you said is not possible to implement in BF2 , and as i said if some sort of system does come to ArmA assume it will be more complex and realistic like you have suggested.

hi project reality, i have a question. i love what you are doing, but can you please make a pmc addition to your mod??? that would be awesome! make sure you don't forget to make all shotguns able to shoot high explosive shells! thanks :)

PMCs wont be PR:ArmAs goal for a long time, if ever. expect focus on other teams first.

Though some community members are making a faction to implement into PR:BF2.

Edited October 15, 2010 by gazzthompson

[Smurf 12]

PRs decision to completely remove ability to use them was because most if not all of what you said is not possible to implement in BF2 , and as i said if some sort of system does come to ArmA assume it will be more complex and realistic like you have suggested.

Thank god... or BIS and PR Devs for that.

Though some community members are making a faction to implement into PR:BF2.

About something like that, i will ask again:

How much of BF2:PR will\can (due engine\license issues) be ported to A2:PR?

_____

OFF: Now I have to have the balls to install BF2, the 2 patches and the 3GB of PR..... goddammit, Im to lazy...

[ebanks129 10]

That map looks awesome:p ahaha

[galzohar 31]

Regarding the island, the town looks awesome, but is the hill/mountain going to remain as plain as it is now? Currently it seems like there is absolutely no cover for someone moving in on the village from the top of the hill/mountain.

Also, you may want to set your view distance to maximum when taking screenshots, even if you drop to 1 FPS it's not like anyone can see your FPS in the screenshot ;)

About picking up enemy weapons, please don't go too crazy on this. Giving a lot of sway to someone because "he's not a trained sniper" is silly, because the main skill of the sniper is not putting the sights on target (that is pretty damn easy, at least at the prone position with a bipod), but rather actually adjusting for range (and wind IRL but that can't be implemented realistically in the game) so that the bullet hits where you're aiming the sights. Also I bet if one is trained to use an M16 he shouldn't have a hard time holding an AK-47 steady. Bottom line is I hope PR doesn't go excessive on this in the name of balance and in the expense of realism.

[ebanks129 10]

There is going to plenty of rocks for cover and a bumpy terrain if you know what i mean. Pics arent at a high vd simply because they were just some quick pics for a mini update;) but will do next time! (fps doesn't drop at 10k vd btw, well for me at least. we'll see how testing goes. so far good.)

[galzohar 31]

Sounds nice

[gazzthompson 10]

About picking up enemy weapons, please don't go too crazy on this. Giving a lot of sway to someone because "he's not a trained sniper" is silly, because the main skill of the sniper is not putting the sights on target (that is pretty damn easy, at least at the prone position with a bipod), but rather actually adjusting for range (and wind IRL but that can't be implemented realistically in the game) so that the bullet hits where you're aiming the sights. Also I bet if one is trained to use an M16 he shouldn't have a hard time holding an AK-47 steady. Bottom line is I hope PR doesn't go excessive on this in the name of balance and in the expense of realism.

The PR team have numerous military personnel who's sole purpose is advise the team on matters such as this, assume with ArmA's more flexible engine that a more realistic system (if any system at all on this subject) is implemented.

[Wolfstriked 11]

Add in just a bit of dispersion for a sniper rifle is incentive to not pick it up unless your also a trained sniper.Would take a few shots more then normal to pick off a target at distance as it would be in real life yet the rifle will be normal in close range since the dispersion there will be minimal.For a machine gun that has added weight you could add in a good amount more of stamina depletion if your not trained with it and some dispersion also.Grenadier kit could have adjustable GL sights disabled?You could then use alot of skill with first shot as gauge and you adjust manually.

[Inkompetent 0]

Dispersion could very well be added. Most of the other stuff is config-dependant, but dispersion can always be added through fired eventhandlers when using unfamiliar systems.

[Wolfstriked 11]

Deviation,will it be implemented also in Arma2?I like it in PR:BF2 but find its too excessive.Not the time you have to wait but the amount of dispersion that happens if you dont.Pointing a weapon at a person at close range and seeing the bullet impact the floor feels wrong.It should be semi noticeable at medium range and long range excessive.

[yanhchan 10]

I'd glady Pay for PR...I mean I already paid for BAF...haha PR will surpass anything that BIS releases in terms of DLC for the future

[Binkowski 25]

I'd glady Pay for PR...I mean I already paid for BAF...haha PR will surpass anything that BIS releases in terms of DLC for the future

not cool.