Project Reality - WIP Discussion

[gossamersolid 155]

If they got a license for RV3 and released the game for free, they could do what they wanted.

The point is that a game is a game, a mod is a mod. When the mod requires a game to play, I expect that I will be able to play the mod the same way I play the game that it's built on.

No they have not created a new game, are you on crack? They have taken previously made gamemodes, renamed them, slap a BF2-esque HUD with reskinned BAF units (plus some of their own) and put it into a package. That's not a new game, that's a mod... which is what this is.

[cole 0]

be prepared for a law suit.

ztVMib1T4T4

[hellfire257 3]

A law suit for making a mission? How pathetic and low can you possibly get?

[galzohar 31]

The lack of quality missions imo is not up to blame of the mission makers. And yes, I know that by the community's standards there are plenty of "quality" missions out there, but that's only because they're simply way better than a lot of other missions that are being released. Not because they are truly good, judged by the eyes of someone looking at it as if it was a complete game you would normally buy. Of course since it is free, and even moreso since it is Arma that we all love, we let things slide and play stuff even if they aren't the best, since it's still Arma which has no other games that really compare to it in any way.

Now before you get angry and say there are lots of awesome missions out there, think for one second: What if missions were released after thorough testing by a large team? What if after release they would actually get played by a large enough player base to actually get relevant and useful feedback to fix whatever might be wrong with them? Today even the biggest, most popular missions IMO don't actually get the amount of testing and feedback one needs in order to end up with something truly awesome. To really get something brought to a level where everything just works right, game is challenging enough, cannot be abused in any way, bug-free and at the same time is actually fun, you simply need a larger tester/player base than any existing mission currently has. Of course this isn't to blame on the mission makers. There are currently more missions than players! So even the best/most popular missions don't truly get the testing they need to get perfected.

If PR can change this, that alone will make them a success IMO. Not the British soldiers or vehicles, not the new islands, and definitely not the improved STHUD. Just polished, balanced, bug-free gameplay that anyone (or at least anyone capable of not playing idiotically) can enjoy. If they can pull that off, I'll be more than happy, and the rest won't really matter so much. Of course whether they can or can't is yet to be seen.

[maddogx 13]

Well, I see no point in discussing this any further, and frankly I'd rather sign up to the PR forums (done) than continue following this poo flinging contest.

In the wise words of Suma:

Regarding the people telling you vocally what you should and should not do, well, you can do the same that has proven extremely healthy to us during development:

Dogs bark but the caravan goes on.

[hund 0]

Damn galz, when the hell did you start making any sense?

[Pfhaota 11]

Coming from the PR-BF2 community I can say that PR has a healthy modding environment. A lot of different "community" factions with models, maps, voice acting and so on, were created through the work of independent community teams, not the official [DEV] team, and then integrated into the official mod. I'm quite sure that if you create a good, quality mission the PR-team would gladly integrate it into the mod with the proper credits given.

[st_dux 26]

You see, the way I look at it, PR have essentially taken the RV3 engine and created a new game with it. By strict definition it is a mod, yes, but in essence it is presented as a new game, which is what counts.

This is where much of the community seems to fundamentally disagree. It's a mod: It doesn't really offer more than any other total conversion mod (though what it offers may indeed be novel), and most importantly, it requires another game (ArmA II) to play. Really, calling it a new game is just disingenuous.

@galzohar:

Let me see if I got this right: The entire ArmA community is not a large enough testing base for the production of quality missions/addons/whatever, but a subsection of that community, the PR players, somehow will be. How does that work?

[rangerpl 13]

Oh well it looks like I won't be playing PR.

[jumpinghubert 48]

Damn wuff wuff

who cares..

@RangerPL

congrats and bye

[craig.turner 10]

The fact that you just referred to it as "the STHud we use" is amusing, I must say.

As to your comments about the PRA2 one being "a little better (if anything)", heh.

My apologies fully, in my haste to post whilst under bombardment from the other posters, I should have worded it:

edit: - Apologies ........The Squad HUD we use is also 100% ours, and if anything is a little better for our Gameplay style.

which I have edited, I used the term STHud, as it was commented by someone about it, and referring to it as such.

A little better, meant "for our gameplay style"

Again a rush post, which is never a good thing to do.

Apologies, no offence meant what so ever

.

[*LK1* 10]

Funny how the discussion starts to heat up here as soon as someone starts talking of restricting what players can do with a mod. Of course the ability to open up a mod and look inside is great for addon makers to learn from others - that's how many people learn and it raises the overall quality of the modding community.

On the other hand, a mod team is well within its rights to release their content under a restrictive license. No one here is entitled to do anything with the addons they download - the ability to reverse engineer something does not mean that everyone is allowed do whatever they want with it. For example, if PR were to release their mod under a Creative Commons by-nc-nd (attribution, non-commercial, no derivatives) license, people could still pick it apart at their own leisure, but modifying it and releasing a derivative version would be forbidden.

instead to have something of low quality as many addons/mods posted on armaholic which they are completely explorablenow we will have an excellent mod made by pro which, oh sorry guys:(, which is not modfiable. deal with it.

:)

[galzohar 31]

@galzohar:

Let me see if I got this right: The entire ArmA community is not a large enough testing base for the production of quality missions/addons/whatever, but a subsection of that community, the PR players, somehow will be. How does that work?

If the entire Arma community would combine efforts to play and provide feedback on even just one mission things would have been much better. But most missions are not played by most players, so your comment makes very little sense.

If the subsection of the community that will play PR will be much bigger than any subsection that plays any other mission, then yes, that works just great for PR and for the players that want to enjoy it. Of course, again, it is yet to be seen whether or not this will actually be the case. My hopes are for it to be the case since I want to play something polished (on all aspects) just for once.

[gossamersolid 155]

instead to have something of low quality as many addons/mods posted on armaholic which they are completely explorablenow we will have an excellent mod made by pro which, oh sorry guys:(, which is not modfiable. deal with it.

:)

So you are saying that all the mods posted on armaholic are not made by people with professional quality?

shut the fuck up...

[dmarkwick 261]

It seems this thread has become an embarrassment to the ArmA community. Which is a shame as it may well be the first port of call to any PR member deciding to see what we're all about.

[st_dux 26]

@galzohar:

Fair enough, but I don't think it's accurate or fair to say that there is no polished custom content made for ArmA. There are many mods and missions that have been playtested by many people and are in quite a nice state right now. Look at ACE for example, or Domination if you'd like a mission. PR may turn out quite polished and well supported as well, but I don't see this as being some sort of revolutionary first within the community. In my opinion, this community has a long history of creating great content. Sure, there might be some things that aren't as well-polished as others, but when everything is free and freely shared, a bit of inconsistency isn't such a high price to pay.

[*LK1* 10]

FPDR.

That's just wrong. We can't even share missions we've made?

Why is release in speech marks?

seriusly, can you just move from an optic to another 1?

pr, you can like the fact or not, is brand not only a mod. excessive?arguable.

they dont want to see their logo behind the biggest bullshit that a casual map maker can do.

i give you a suggestion, you guys are free to cry until the release and even before. but after that, whenyou think that is enough, just give it a try. despite all the restrictions, you might like it anyway.

[DaVca 0]

UK_Force;2010563']There will be nothing "technically" stopping you do this no.

Of course you may do what you want in the editor' date=' and in private for your own use as per the EULA....

...

The only way to "release" missions for PR, is via speaking with our team.

.[/quote']

tldr: I cant create a mission and play it with few friends unless it was before approved by your team? OLOL

Go ahead then. Unless you only use PR content and make it for PR only then your fine. If you choose to ignore the warning, be prepared for a law suit.

Internet drama! I like those...

if all that is true then all I have to say is:

“When life gives you PROJECT REALITY, don’t make MISSIONS. Make PROJECT REALITY TEAM take the MOD back! Get mad! I don’t want your damn MODS, what the hell am I supposed to do with these? Demand to see THOSE GUYS manager! Make PROJECT REALITY TEAM rue the day it thought it could give Cave Johnson RESTRICTIVE FANMODS! Do you know who I am? I’m the man who’s gonna burn your house down! With the ARMA MISSIONS! I’m gonna get my engineers to invent a combustible ARMA MISSION that burns your house down!â€

[Pfhaota 11]

It seems this thread has become an embarrassment to the ArmA community. Which is a shame as it may well be the first port of call to any PR member deciding to see what we're all about.

While it's not the most pleasant read, I'm well aware that the ARMA community is much more than name calling. :)

-P

[*LK1* 10]

So you are saying that all the mods posted on armaholic are not made by people with professional quality?

shut the fuck up...

no you simply have misunderstood. i didn't said all, but many. 50/60% in my opinion. simply because many things are not made by guys with lot of experience in modding. dont be a madman funboy. just take it easy.

[franze 196]

It's becoming quite evident here that we have some major disagreements going on here. For now, here's what I'm going to say: PR has their mod, and they are going to include these rules with it. Regardless of what you think about those rules, it is still their mod. Some people are OK with that, others are not. While I may vehemently disagree with the rules that the PR mod team is using, it is in the end, still their rules. It is up to individual members within the community to decide whether or not they will agree to those rules.

Now, we can either drop that subject entirely, or we can start handing out some vacations. I would hate to hand out some vacations because a number of you are good community members with good standing; however, this dead horse has been beaten to it's component atoms. You've made your point. Move on.

To the PR team members: This community has many talented artists, scripters, coders, and developers, and many of you at one time were one of them as well. When you denigrate them, you denigrate yourselves as well as the entire community. Remember, at one time you, too, made "crap" addons. We all have to start somewhere.

If this thread gets any more derailed then it's going to be closed and the guilty parties will be punished.

[mondkalb 1087]

instead to have something of low quality as many addons/mods posted on armaholic which they are completely [...]

:)

So you are saying that instead of contributing content that is not on par with the quality BIS produces, one should not contribute at all?

If that is the case, how about you stop contributing to these forums until your posts gain in substance and quality that lives up to at least the level of common sense. Hows that?

:rolleyes:

And regarding this whole PR Yay/Ney debate. It will be released as free content. Argument settled and all other arguments rendered invalid.

[rangerpl 13]

Well, looks like we're all going to have to play PR despite their rules since it's not like we have other quality add-ons to play.

Whatever shall we do?? I wish the modding scene for ArmA 2 was larger!

[craig.turner 10]

@ Franz, I am not sure when I have said that PR are all super Developers, and that we look down on "crappy" add ons ---- far from it ??

Guys I am not sure there is any need for all this hostility is there?

The reason we are doing things this way is because we want to have ONE Mod, that can be ran as MP, and ran in such a way that it keeps MP Alive, which has worked fantastic in BF2.

By "controlling" the MOD, we still average over 200 players 24/7 on servers - average.

Nearly all the other BF2 Mods, have closed down, and the ones remaining are not server populated.

If we can bring something like this to ArmA2 then for those that want it, its a plus point for everyone.

If it fails with the community here, it fails, and we will happily run with it in the PR Community, which will populate the servers anyway from the outset.

Missions - if you want a mission, released and playable on the servers, it just needs running by the team to check it fits in with the gameplay modes, and we will add it to the Mod, with Credits of course.

Like BF2, we will also fully embrace Community work, in the same way we have always done ....... again, controlled it will simply ensure it is smooth, and fits in with PR well.

We are merely trying to do something different in ArmA2, as what has been attempted before to really bump the whole MP scene has not worked yet, and maybe this just might ?

I am sorry if you guys do not see that, it is clearly better if PR refrains from posting in these forums, as it is causing people to become very wound up about something that in essence is a "game", which you can either play or not.

All information on PR: ARMA2, as always, can be found on our site

www.realitymod.com

@ a Moderator as far as PR is now concerned you may close the thread if you wish, as we will not be updating PR in these forums anymore.

Edited August 25, 2011 by Craig.Turner

[Pfhaota 11]

@ a Moderator as far as PR is now concerned you may close the thread if you wish, as we will not be updating PR in these forums anymore

This is a sad decision. While there's been some hostility I think that PR needs to market it's progression on THE site for ARMA. If only, to mention new releases.