Beating of a criminal

[Prydain 1]

European police aren't immune to overreacting(See London subway shooting). To be honest, I don't know why people care so much about a criminal that gets roughed up, especially when the situation looked extremely dangerous. It seems people just have a bone to pick with the police and especially the US police in general due to some kind of brainwashing by the media where they develop preconceived notions about them.

I AM BRAINWASHED, I WATCHED VISIBLE MEDIA THAT SENT FACTS INTO MY BRAIN!!!!

My only disappointment is that cops don't use enough force. The prisons in California are already overpopulated, I would not mind seeing more criminals being taken off the streets permanently.

I remember Cory Booker, mayor of Newark, talking about creating an incentive for his local police to use less force, implying that there is overeagerness to use force and excessive force in a conversation about excessive force on the American talk show, Real Time with Bill Maher, episode 184.

I remember seeing Harvard university professor Henry Louis Gates arrested in what was a pointless and possibly racially motivated arrest that contradicts a 1st Amendment right to the US constitution that allows you to use offensive language towards a police officer without fear of arrest. 1

I remember seeing a man in diabetic shock being taserd by Oklahoma police even though police are required by Oklahoma state law to be trained to recognise specific medical conditions and that includes type 1 & 2 Diabetes, the man was wearing his medical neckless which Oklahoma police are trained to recognise. 2, 3

So no, it isn't about too much or too little force. It is about doing your fucking job you slimey super-proletariat (directed at these specific cops). Being a police officer isn't just about boosting your ego, that last example was a clear example of officers having no defence. Their profession includes being trained to notice the specific medical condition of the victim, if you forget that then you aren't a professional - imagine if your brain surgeon just forgot to wash his hands and you caught MRSA - and you should admit that you only care about the 'looking big-ego lark' and thus you shouldn't be a cop.

This is a big problem, police aren't called pigs, ect for no reason. People these days don't trust the police because if they do something wrong to you they hardly ever get punished, they can get away with murder.

1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Louis_Gates_arrest_controversy

2. http://www.digtriad.com/news/features/article.aspx?storyid=115481&catid=216

3. http://cbs4denver.com/watercooler/cops.tase.diabetic.2.884588.html

Edited August 16, 2010 by Prydain

[Scrub 0]

It all comes down to principles and character, doesn't it? Funny how they've stopped teaching that here in the past decade or two...

[vilas 477]

there are many things that i don't like in US (economical politics without social care, foreign politics and disgusting PMC ), but one thing is good there - law enforcement

i compare it to situation where i live

yesterday there was broadcast in TV, 4 guys beaten man to death

regular bandits from gang killed man

they all get low (so called suspended) sentences or maybe 1-2 years, cause "they not meant to kill him"

guys were regular drunken bandits, victim was average pedestrian

such things in my country we hear almost every day, since liberalism came

when i compare it to US police - i praise US police seeing such movies,

if guy make problems on road, drive drunken, escape police, may kill someone by driving over - they should shot him

and people should not feel sorry for bandits and low breakers (road pirates in this example)

i prefer brutal cop much more than soft delicate cop which let bandit walk free and court which let killers go free

too brutal law is better than too soft when it comes to safety of average citizen, i live in country where people praise for strong law but corrupted politics make punishment lower and lower and you can simply buy being free of charges and policeman won't react cause he is scared too or he has regulation like "if theft is under 200 PLN (50EU) than case dismissed, if theft is under 1000 PLN (250 EU) than we call it lower-danger and do not put to prosecutor office, only by private sue"

definitely European way of cops behavior is bad , US looks much better for me

Edited August 18, 2010 by vilas

[Thunderbird 0]

if guy make problems on road, drive drunken, escape police, may kill someone by driving over - they should shot him

and people should not feel sorry for bandits and low breakers (road pirates in this example)

This is somewhat stupid as taking out the so-called "bandits" will just justify and excuse any murder coming from cops. And will thus make the cops become "murders" themselves. Police forces aren't meant to do that, after all. It doesn't matter the country where you are, even within the worst ones.

Cops main objective and first priority is to arrest the "bandit" and not take him out.

If you disagree about your justice decisions then establish and carry out demonstrations against'em. Things might perhaps change.

Regards,

TB

[Scrub 0]

Sorry Vilas, don't mean to laugh too hard. But your comment on how you don't like the US not having social-care (when we over here think such a concept is uber-liberal) and then mention how police should be judge/jury/executioner (the ultimate-uber-liberal/fascist), then mention in the middle how all the problems came when liberalism struck. I agree wholeheartedly. Overton Window anyone? lol

I see problems for police come from a few vectors: Tough neighborhoods (especially those with gun bans, only criminals have guns and take over), druggies that are violent, unpredictable, and - for a short time - almost unstoppable, desperately poor areas and gangs.

The problem with police is the person: greed, power, ego, corruption in general I guess... And fear. Basically The Seven Deadly Sins we all face, just with a gun and an excuse.

[vilas 477]

cause you live in countries which had mafia and you used to treat criminals on streets like something normal

for me it is something new from 90s

and i am angry on our soft justice system, which let killers, rapists to be alive and burglars to be free

it is important who strike first, not who strikes back

as you say "so called" bandits : steal, rape, burglar, kill drunken - it makes different for me

if someone shot them , i praise him and for me he is not "so called murder" but "cleaner of dirt of humanity"

police must be strong and react fast and in such way, than gangster, bandit, burglar, murder won't do it again, and "peaceful man can sleep safe"

you cannot give "human rights" to those who not care about others rights to property, live, dignity, health etc.

"(when we over here think such a concept is uber-liberal) and then mention how police should be judge/jury/executioner (the ultimate-uber-liberal/fascist)"

no, for me word liberal means "economy without conscience, no sorrow, just counting money, no respect for weak and poor just for rich corporations, no employee rights, just make more and more and more milions on blood of others, freedom without morality"

so i dont see self denying in my sentence

i believe in one metal band lyrics "help good people to live, help bad people to die"

i dont know why you see liberalism in US law ? for me US is somekind of Police-State when i see movies, broadcast , not liberal,

liberal is Somalia, Mexico, when guy with AK do whatever he wants

i have among my friends lots of policemen, after studies i also went to police, cause i still believe that if someone do bad things to others , he must be destroyed

cause noone can take your hard earned money , steal it, put it to drugs and bordello,

noone can beat old lady on street to take her last money and spend it on new adidas shoes etc.

when my girl walks evening , i wanna be sure, she wont get any trouble from drunken guy in adidas wear etc.

Edited August 18, 2010 by vilas

[Thunderbird 0]

Things aren't just black or white. If we follow your way of thinking then we just fall back into dark ages when women were burned because they were supposed to be witches...

There would no more be any form of presumption of innocence and no real justice. All efforts done through all these centuries to avoid accusing a side with no real evidence will just get vanished like air.

After all, If you feel so frustrated about your country's laws then make things evolve.

Regards,

TB

[vilas 477]

hahahahaha

i call it liberal bulshit, europe gone wrong way in its law enforcement system,

i know some people who dislike police, almost all have some dirt in closet,

one is total liar and never keeping promisses,

second is drunk-driver and drug using, many times speeding 150 km/h on small local street almost killing pedestrian woman once upon a time ,

third was stealing when was young and was in gang,

fourth not pay taxes and cheats his consumers (shop keeper) ,

etc.

if man is honest, he not afraids of system/police (unless system has political law-enforcement like in totalitarian countries in past which hunt not for criminals but for example communists or independence activists or gays/les etc. )

in our political life for example most anti-strong law activist are buisnesmen-politicians who made big money by dirty tricks and cheating

state should be built for honest people, not for "all" including bandits, cheaters, liars etc.

i remember such liberal shit time in my country, policeman afraid to shot to bandit, cause he could be accused of murder (first shout "police i will shot", than shoot in the air, than ... you would be dead on duty), no self defense right (people in the prison who defended themselves), just law for bandits and "give them your money if they treat you and escape"

US way is much better in this area than EU

Edited August 19, 2010 by vilas

[Thunderbird 0]

The complete package regrouping your statements is over-exagerated.

So what? - You suggest to use firearms everytime police officers have to face a complicated situation...

What a great sense of responsibilities...

Despite our mentality and education differences, there is a certain common sense which is the base of everything. You can't act the way you want, you can't do what your "brain" orders you to do, there are some rules to respect... There are some laws to follow.

If you are unhappy of your laws'n rules then simply remind yourself that you live in a sort of democracy which gives you the opportunity to perhaps make things change at a certain degree.

And if you are tired about your country's criminals, nobody stops you from being a Hero and saving your nation from the disease, heh. - Rejoin the police.

TB

[vilas 477]

yes there are differences, when i say that i will not change something/touch something, i am not touching

i know that there are people for whom to say "i will not do something" means nothing

and they very not like law, police

cause for them any promise, any values means nothing, and their philosophy is "do what i want no matter of other's cost"

yes, there is big difference in looking at morality, law between

when police is beating political protestor, economical protester, national/religious violence reasons - it is bad, but when they beat thief, burglar, cheater - for me all is okay

but there was and always will be big difference in attitude to law between those who care about rules and those who not care and do what they want even when cheating, breaking words, stealing, fast driving, drugs use etc .

Edited August 21, 2010 by vilas

[Scrub 0]

Sorry, but you are completely missing the point in your approval of the US LAW enforcement (not opinion enforcement). Our cops are mainly focused on two legal concepts:

1- 'To protect and serve.' That means they can use lethal force if they or others are in danger

2- To 'Bring the accused to justice.' Without regard to other influences, to aggressively capture and bring the accused before a judge and jury to be punished or freed after the issue is UNDERSTOOD.

That is really the bulk of it. Sure there are many more facets of their jobs, but most of them revolve around those concepts. They are not entitled to be the thugs you so revere. You are pushing for a police state, which will only make things worse for you. Freedom only works when opposing forces of government are put in tension, creating an environment that the people can thrive in. A self controlling police force is a thing to be feared on BOTH sides of the law.

I feel bad that you have selfish, corrupt police. Perhaps if your country allowed them to excel, achieve and receive the benefits of their efforts they would instead strive to improve themselves and the world around them, instead of selling out to the highest bidder.. That is what we have here, but we are an evil free-market country that allows/urges people to BE better, rather than FEEL better.

Over here people are BORN with inalienable rights that no state can take away. Fairness is built in as a cornerstone of our country, it is up to the individual to increase or decrease their ability to exercise those rights... Obviously, it's rather hard to do from behind a wall of chrome-moly bars. lol. :D

[vilas 477]

"I feel bad that you have selfish, corrupt police"

courts, not Police

police do job (find evidences) but court not take them under account, cause they are corrupted , judges and "biegli" (experts)

this is cause lawyers in my country are like untouchable cast (family relations, ex-communist special services), they are above law

this small note is not for discussion, just for correcting knowledge

in most countries of the world lawyer is equal to other people, in my not

lawyer you become when you are from lawyer family (exam is passed when you are son of daughter of someone from corporation) and in law they have "immunity" which allows them to lie, cheat etc. and they are judged by "corporation courts" (by friends/relatives)

[Big Mac 19]

I feel bad that you have selfish, corrupt police. Perhaps if your country allowed them to excel, achieve and receive the benefits of their efforts they would instead strive to improve themselves and the world around them, instead of selling out to the highest bidder.. That is what we have here, but we are an evil free-market country that allows/urges people to BE better, rather than FEEL better.

Gimme a break most cops in America are so crooked it's beyond sad. In small towns it's more low key to shaking down small time pot dealers and robbing them of their drugs and money for their own use,but in a lot of big cities police corruption is even more rampant. Back in the old days whole precincts of cops would be on the mobs payroll. Edited August 23, 2010 by Big Mac

[DenisRUS 10]

There is corruption in USA police? Why? They got no money? They dont have union which protects them even from The Black Overlord?? Just dont get it.. I thought corruption in USA police is in history... Hm..gonna rewatch Serpico then.

[Big Mac 19]

There is corruption in USA police? Why? They got no money? They dont have union which protects them even from The Black Overlord?? Just dont get it.. I thought corruption in USA police is in history... Hm..gonna rewatch Serpico then.

You obviously haven't been around very long or lived a sheltered life if you think police corruption in the US is just in the history books.

[DenisRUS 10]

You obviously haven't been around very long or lived a sheltered life if you think police corruption in the US is just in the history books.

well i thought all this cameras everywhere and computer systems solved problem a bit. Guess i was wrong.

So local shopkeepers need to pay cops a rent like in good old days?

And if you got to jail your friends in PD can make your a favor and you ll get out soon?

How many off the police officers are corrupted do you think? 30%?

I'm just curious caz it absolutely bizarre for me that USA still has such problem

P.S. Just 2 small videos about our police

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59-gh1Q-V4M&feature=related

In the beginning of the operation guys from SWAT missed the car with the criminals with the car with odinary ppl cas numbers on the plate was the same) But it didnt help bad guys and they got what they deserved in the end.

Edited August 26, 2010 by DenisRUS

[Big Mac 19]

well i thought all this cameras everywhere and computer systems solved problem a bit. Guess i was wrong.

So local shopkeepers need to pay cops a rent like in good old days?

And if you got to jail your friends in PD can make your a favor and you ll get out soon?

How many off the police officers are corrupted do you think? 30%?

I'm just curious caz it absolutely bizarre for me that USA still has such problem

Yea they say the same for murder too but it still happens. You're an idiot if you think every cop out there is squeaky clean. I've met more crooked cops than honest ones. Also there are different levels of corruption, it's not all serpico type BS.

A cop uses his lights to get out of waiting at a red light is a form of police corruption. A cop who shakes down a dope dealer and says to him "Gimme your dope and money and I'll turn ya loose." is a form of corruption and yes it happens more often than you think.

As I said you either haven't been around very long or have lived a sheltered life. I've seen it growing up and my uncle who is a cop he's seen it too, he kicked a lot of of guys out of Narcotics for shaking down drug dealers, stealing drug money,etc.

BTW The shop keepers never paid the cops rent, they paid the Mob money for "Insurance" which meant if they paid on a certain amount on a weekly basis they mob wouldn't bust up their shop and more often than not their legs. It's called extortion. Maybe in Russia the cops did that, but not so much in the US.

Edited August 26, 2010 by Big Mac

[vilas 477]

corruption, i am surprised, i thought that US police is well paid, not afraid of bandits , so they are clean, i am very surprised

[Thunderbird 0]

P.S. Just 2 small videos about our police

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hkb2Q...feature=search

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59-gh...eature=related

What an excessive and unnecessary use of force. They aren't better than the US, though.

Regards,

TB

[vilas 477]

what a good treatment of killers and robbers, read first WHAT they have done, they robbed and killed

they get not enough what they deserved, but always people who have other meaning of what is honest or right (for example lie, not keep promises, break rules), will be against police and for bandits

keeping dangerous bandits like killers cannot be delicate

if someone defends bandit (killers, robbers, burglars, rapist, cheaters) , for me is ***

criminal do not respect honor, dignity, pain of victims, and we should not respect their pain, dignity etc.

law system is to protect good people from bad people

to give good people silent sleep , not being robbed , raped, murdered

police is arm to make it true

for me bandits should be threaten like that , cause many time police has a lot of evidences but waits and collects them, they know whom they search for, they not search for nice babies

but dangerous ruthless bastards which only by mistake are called humans

cause they not respect other people right to life or health (for example those who make others to be on wheelchair after beating man after robbing)

i have one friend who has a friend on wheelchair, 4 drunken bastards wanted his mobile and MP3, he defended, he was beaten and had spine broken ... they should be killed

and only scum can defend bastards like them against policemen

police is arm of law , if it is corrupted, it is wrong, cause it should be clean, clean, but strong

violence when it comes to race of man, religion etc. is wrong, but not for robbers and killers and those who rape , not even saying about pedophiles :/

policemen cannot be delicate cause he may die on duty, when he will be slow, polite, someone can stab knife in back (we had such case some months ago, policeman kindly informed hooligans not to throw trash can into public transport tram, second hooligan came to his back and stab knife in back, if he acted from beginning like this police on movies, he would be alive , bandits do not respect delicate people , they think that if someone is polite, he not deserve respect calling it "sucker")

philosophy of bandits is violence and police must answer to it in right way, otherwise bandit will kill him without respect

Edited August 26, 2010 by vilas

[DenisRUS 10]

vilas what about Russian mafia? Is it still strong in Poland like it was in 90s? In the place where i live we get rid from most of this scum years ago. Heard that some of these bastards emigrated with there families to the Eastern Europe just not to get in jail/get shot down here.

Big Mac dude, i have never been in USA so the only source of info for me is National Geografic channel where USA police is shown in very good aspect. Seriously.

I am not an idiot who lives in fantasy land or vault dweller. As i said it just bizzare for me and Vilas that you still have such problem cas your propaganda shows that everything is ok. Simple.

Just for lols http://ifun.ru/view/142322 At least your police have no problem with..eh..supplies;-)

Edited August 26, 2010 by DenisRUS

[mosh 0]

Everybody hates cops until they get robbed,raped, shot at, etc. Then they dial 911.. I personally think anyone who says they dislike cops in general maybe has a bad habit of breaking the law.

911 is better for ambulance and fire department. If you need to use it to call the police in one of the instances you described, you're in trouble. That's what CCW is for...

Also, I do know several cops who are good friends of mine, and they will admit the 'above the law' mentality is widespread in their respective forces.

Well most cops don't think they're the shit and are very professional. Besides how would they know didn't have a gun? This guy just ran from the cops and put countless people's lives in danger if I was a cop I would have my gun drawn too because if someone is capable of what this guy did then they capable of killing a cop. So unless you were there then you nor any one else can say if they were in the right or not. I personally believe that this guy was lucky he didn't kill anyone and that he wasn't shot. Stop being a Monday morning quarterback..

I actually agree with you here... While I do really think they overreacted, I was being a Monday morning quarterback and talking about something I know little about. I can admit that... ;)

[vilas 477]

i heard that Putin make order in Russia, mafia ? they not "so eye-sticking" as before, i heard that Sicili too, but probably all now "legalize stolen money" so now "mafia" is "owner of restaurants" and etc.

maybe they moved, for sure then not "easy to spot" like it was in 90s because of "dress code, to show that i am big gangsta"

the real problem is in law-system creators, cause even in parliament we had a lot of criminals, so they write law legislation , for others like them

those fat cops are great, hahahaha

how they PASS routine sport exams every year ???

Edited August 26, 2010 by vilas

[Big Mac 19]

Big Mac dude, i have never been in USA so the only source of info for me is National Geografic channel where USA police is shown in very good aspect. Seriously.

I am not an idiot who lives in fantasy land or vault dweller. As i said it just bizzare for me and Vilas that you still have such problem cas your propaganda shows that everything is ok. Simple.

Well then if you never been here then why are you trying to dispute someone who lives here? It just makes you look like an idiot.

Propaganda? As a Russian you shouldn't talk about such things...

Just for lols http://ifun.ru/view/142322 At least your police have no problem with..eh..supplies;-)

These are called donut cops because all they do is guard the dunkin donuts or write tickets. Edited August 26, 2010 by Big Mac

[vilas 477]

dont they have every year sport exam ?

Edited August 26, 2010 by vilas