Editing, Expanding and Modifying Domination

[Ringosis 10]

Uhm, you wouldn't have to catch anyone, as it would happen everytime someone is revived. Deal with it for now, and wait for D4 instead. Die less, and it shouldn't be a problem ;)

I don't really have a huge problem with that. I mean most of the time it's the difference between respawning at a mobile HQ 50 yards with all your weapons away or being revived with all your weapons.

What I mean about catching people is people who are committing suicide so that they can be revived. As long as they are accidentally dying I still think that is better than the other options...either constantly having to manually refill your ammo or not having revive at all.

I just can't figure out how he's disabled it, I'm a bit of a novice editor.

Also, excuse my ignorance but what's D4?

[Tankbuster 1733]

Or, don't use revive. It's a nice idea poorly implemented and this saved layout thing is just one of it's problems.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

@Ringosis:

D4 = Domination4, which has its own revive system. Hopefully it addresses a few other issues as well. Like, making it painful to die. Dieing should be a problem, never a solution. If you manage to get killed 50 yards from the MHQ something is terribly wrong with the style of play. I don't use revive, and still I've been forced to remove the save layout feature. Domination style backpacks and mg nests are other heavily exploited features I've had to remove. Also forget about teleporting in my edit.

The gameplay you're describing is my pet hate about the game mode. Now, it can be played well if on a closed server. Once you open it up to pubbers they tend to ruin everything, despite being part of the plan. Asking them nicely does not work. Forcing it down their throat does seem to have an effect - they'll quit if they can't handle it (fine by me), or they'll change their gaming style and be more of a team player than a soloist (that would be brilliant).

We had 3 lifters, now reduced to only 1. We adapted without problems, slowing us down a little in the process - which imho was a good thing. Domination was always very feature rich, which I think is part of what make it popular. I think a better approach to "rules" would be having to select between sets of rules, but never allow all of them. I.e. HALO or teleport, but not both. Revive or respawn at MHQ, but not both. No rule selection should make anything impossible or overly easy (overly easy is what the defaults are currently), but annoying enough to make it hurt when things go wrong. Unfortunately there are always those who are there only to wreck the game, deliberately or by simply being new to it. Deliberately grants a ban. Being new to it, maybe ourselves are to blame for not teaching them, and... Accidents do happen :) Instant jumpflags at cleared targets (makes planned attacks impossible, even if you want to), unlocked enemy vehicles (when lead in tech, no army would allow this, completely nuts in my view), and being too hardware oriented (gunships and planes) is what killed the default (typically hosted) game mode for me.

For D4, I'm hoping for some more balanced (by default at least) options, so that experienced players can actually have fun again when mingling with inexperienced players. Some of us wants to join a populated server, but can't because we know the gameplay there is typically ruined by 14yo who jumps into the next target with guns blazing.

Hmm, maybe a voting system to change the rules on the fly? And the semantics of the rules change depending on players there? Close up the convenientness as the playercount grows? Vote always HALO? Fine. But altitude you HALO from will increase with number of players. From a real HALO altitude (I'm using it), doing it will be anything but convenient.

I don't know, just thinking out loud here. Feel free to disagree. I just happen to not enjoy how it plays out especially on public servers anymore.

[chiefredcloud 10]

Like, making it painful to die. Dieing should be a problem, never a solution.

I'm curious as to what you mean by this?

I don't use revive, and still I've been forced to remove the save layout feature.

Our clan (AGE) uses Revive with one purpose, "Noone is left behind" in a "Team" effort.

Also forget about teleporting in my edit.

We use Teleport but I've had mixed feeling here myself. I mean the game has to flow and IF all the choppers are parked in the field, this leaves it kind of aquared to get out there. We do not use Parchuting except from air assets.

Now, it can be played well if on a closed server. Once you open it up to pubbers they tend to ruin everything, despite being part of the plan. Asking them nicely does not work. Forcing it down their throat does seem to have an effect - they'll quit if they can't handle it (fine by me), or they'll change their gaming style and be more of a team player than a soloist (that would be brilliant).

Pubs CAN a problem but there are plenty of GOOD players also. So I guess it comes down to whether you want a Private/Closed server or public server. AGE has both.

We had 3 lifters, now reduced to only 1. We adapted without problems, slowing us down a little in the process - which imho was a good thing.

We cut down to one lifter also and locked ALL combat air assetes. However, ALL members have access to ALL vehicles and we allow access to pubs based upon review of their participitation and input from members that have played with them.

HALO or teleport, but not both. Revive or respawn at MHQ, but not both.

As stated above, we allow HALO from air assets not from flag poles. We do allow Teleporting but many of us have mixed feelings on this. Revive is as I stated above. We feel it is essentual for Team Play. Respawn stays by the venue that sometime you are playing by yourself or, as you stated above, with pubs that do not share your sense of reviving or team work.

Unfortunately there are always those who are there only to wreck the game, deliberately or by simply being new to it. Deliberately grants a ban. Being new to it, maybe ourselves are to blame for not teaching them.

We agree on both of these. I can remember my start at this. My clan members had to put up with a LOT on my behalf. Constant Revives were at the top of the list. Their patients and help got me here today. So ArmA 2 did not become just another game catching dust on the shelf. As for those who would willing ruin any gaming experiance for the honest players. Well I can't say here WHAT I think should be done to them here.

Hmm, maybe a voting system to change the rules on the fly? And the semantics of the rules change depending on players there?

I strongly disagree with only in that if you have 20 players online, you have a chance on having 20 different views of how it should be. Our clan sicusses these items between the ArmA 2 Clan players and if neccissary the upper ranks. We set our servers up as WE see fit. Your welcome to play or go some where else. We try to be fair by NOT banning players without trying to talk to them first (in most cases, not all). But we do not take manure from anyone with regards to OUR servers. Players can and ahve asked for reviews of their bans in our forums. Some lifts have been granted, some have not. Each is reviewed on an idvidual bases.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Dieing: It's a problem when you have to wait for a while to get back into the game. It's a solution to obtain new equipment fast when respawn timer is only 20 seconds (non revive). Or take off 25 points from the score each time you "suicides". Make it hurt. Xeno saw this when he made PMR for ACE, and many hated it :p

What I don't like about revive is that it isn't revive but reanimate or resurrection of the dead. There are many cases where revive should not kick in, instead of kick in on everything. Although it does enhance teamplay, it also speeds up the game far too much. In revive games, everyone takes far too wild chances. So I just don't play them anymore.

We cut down to one lifter also and locked ALL combat air assetes. However, ALL members have access to ALL vehicles and we allow access to pubs based upon review of their participitation and input from members that have played with them.

I'm against this practice (but I understand it), which unfortunately I see more and more of. It's better to use "only_pilots_can_fly" and occupy those slots yourselves when needed. Pilots should have other restrictions though. Could probably say the same about tank crews. I'm just sooo tired of this engineer crew and medic pilot nonsense that goes around. Total freedom is only good on paper.

I strongly disagree with only in that if you have 20 players online, you have a chance on having 20 different views of how it should be. Our clan sicusses these items between the ArmA 2 Clan players and if neccissary the upper ranks. We set our servers up as WE see fit.

Uhm, yeah, that's the idea of voting ;) Warfare and Armex has voting systems. The idea is that when solo you can vote to enable easier options. With D4 it appears also the enemy will be on the move. A voting system might enable the lone player to forfeit the current target and put everything on hold, i.e. only doing side missions for a while until someone else shows up. They can then continue this. When the third player shows up, #2 and #3 may outvote #1 and start up the main target system again.

Of course feel free to setup what you want, but I'd like the default options to be balanced. I.e. you can by default choose between teleporting or base HALO or none of them, but never both. If you want both, then you have to edit the mission, but then it is a hack instead of stupidity supported by the mission itself. Other missions use restrictions, and it doesn't make them worse.

Forcing you to select what kind of aid asset you want to have available, forces you to solve missions in a particular way (= fun and challenging). Having both allows for more stupid gameplay than desired (= boring and annoying).

Your welcome to play or go some where else.

And that's what I do. I enjoy more doing surgery strikes using guerrilla tactics solo on our own server than play on public servers. There are a lot of these one player servers around. Probably for a reason. Domination just isn't a challenge anymore, it's a mayhem shootout with nothing to loose. At the same time you don't want to make it completely unplayable for the solo joiner either.

A concept I've toyed with is variable respawn time based on number of players. I.e. respawn time = 6 or 10 * number of players (maybe max 20 min 240). Solo, you get a 6/10 second respawn. 30 players, suicide solution may be a hard choice with a 3/5 minute respawn, because it now hurts doing it. There is now something to loose by dieing, like in any good game. I used a two minute fixed respawn in Domino/ACE2. People at first hated it, but adopted, and got used to it. Some players left, but those who stayed played much more cautiously, trying very hard not to die. Versus the 20 second respawn - there is really no cost on dieing.

Check the hard core missions. When you die, you're out. The cost is huge. Obviously you can't have this in a persistent mission like this, but I don't see why it has to remain the complete opposite. In Dominatrix/ACE1/Arma1 I used revive, but you only gained a life for every 4 you revived, you only lost a life when respawned, but you only got 4 lives per remaining target! Convenience suicide - not a solution ;) If you were out of lives, you spawned as seagull, and if you rejoined the cost was loss of all score.

Basically, there is too much convenience programmed into the mission, available at all times. I sincerely believe that if we had to pick between them it would improve gameplay.

Another thing I think could be fun, is not to deny certain abilities to anyone/most, but instead make them more annoying. I.e. repairing of base facilities should be done in 30 seconds by an engineer (but he have to keep doing an animation to do it). Everyone else can actually do it, but it will take a lot longer time to do it. Maybe a grunt does it in 3 minutes, while a sniper or pilot does it in 5 minutes. Another example: FO can call for fire wherever he is, but everyone can call for fire from the MHQ. Or, engineers can build a cover in 10 seconds, assistants in 30 seconds. Everyone else can build a cover in a minute but will also have default damage (less sturdy). So instead of too many truly unique abilities, instead make them less unique but instead have other side effects. Makes engineers and FOs make things easier if around, but doesn't make anything impossible if they're not, just less convenient.

Again, just thinking out loud here :)

[Ringosis 10]

I know exactly what you mean Carl, but that is exactly why I don't play on servers. I usually play on a Lan with my house mates (4 of us) or with a few friends online. So the issues your talking about aren't really a concern to me. I don't have to deal with people who want to use every crappy tactic in the book to get the highest score. We play the way we find fun, so leaving in exploits like the revive thing isn't a problem, because we just don't use them.

When I was talking about the 50 yards thing, what I meant was that the times we use revive the most are on side missions and in those situations you can park the HQ pretty close to the target. It's not that we are dying a lot, it's that the HQ is that close to the target. (maybe not 50 yards i was enumerating for effect)

You know what I've done which I think is an excellent workaround for the lifters problem? I added a C130 with the load script as the sole lifter. It forces team work. You can't just get in a chopper, pick up a vehicle, fly it out to the target and then get into it. Instead you need to put the vehicle in the Hercules, fly it out, drop it, return to base and then fly out to the vehicle.

I also altered the arrays to make game ending hardware (Apaches, TUSKs, A10s) much less likely, this achieves exactly the outcome you're looking for, ie less big guns/more teamwork without removing the fun stuff completely.

---------- Post added at 01:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:22 PM ----------

I know exactly what you mean Carl, but that is exactly why I don't play on servers. I usually play on a Lan with my house mates (4 of us) or with a few friends online. So the issues your talking about aren't really a concern to me. I don't have to deal with people who want to use every crappy tactic in the book to get the highest score. We play the way we find fun, so leaving in exploits like the revive thing isn't a problem, because we just don't use them.

When I was talking about the 50 yards thing, what I meant was that the times we use revive the most are on side missions and in those situations you can park the HQ pretty close to the target. It's not that we are dying a lot, it's that the HQ is that close to the target. (maybe not 50 yards i was enumerating for effect)

You know what I've done which I think is an excellent workaround for the lifters problem? I added a C130 with the load script as the sole lifter. It forces team work. You can't just get in a chopper, pick up a vehicle, fly it out to the target and then get into it. Instead you need to put the vehicle in the Hercules, fly it out, drop it, return to base and then fly out to the vehicle.

I also altered the arrays to make game ending hardware (Apaches, TUSKs, A10s) much less likely, this achieves exactly the outcome you're looking for, ie less big guns/more teamwork without removing the fun stuff completely.

What I don't like about revive is that it isn't revive but reanimate or resurrection of the dead. There are many cases where revive should not kick in, instead of kick in on everything. Although it does enhance teamplay, it also speeds up the game far too much. In revive games, everyone takes far too wild chances. So I just don't play them anymore.

I don't use revive like that. I've turned off the revive option completely. We have it so that the only way to revive is by dragging the player back to a Mash. This makes reviving someone much more of a risk, it also makes it much slower (dragging aint quick)

I don't know, just thinking out loud here. Feel free to disagree. I just happen to not enjoy how it plays out especially on public servers anymore.

I don't disagree with you at all if you're trying to balance the game around random unknown players, but I'm not, so could someone tell me how to turn save gear back on? :P

---------- Post added at 01:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:34 PM ----------

Oh actually, I've been trawling around trying to find this but maybe someone here can help me.

Does anyone have any idea how to add an init line to a mission reward? I'd like to add a UAV terminal to the base and make one of the possible rewards the AH6 UAV, I just don't know how to get the UAV to sync with the terminal without it being placed at the start of the missoin.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

The problem with the revive exploit is that you don't have to do anything to activate it, it happens automatically. Maybe exploit is a bad word for it, pure and simple bug may fit better :)

I don't know, but I'm betting playersetup and playerspawn and crate scripts would be the place to look. Search for what the action actually says to find the files where they are added to the crates, then backtrace to see how it's disabled (#ifdef related or "AIVer" in versionstring or something like that), and fix it. Sorry, unable to check much further.

If you don't have a text editor that easily lets you search through files, get one. UltraEdit (payware) or Notepad+ (freeware) are the most commonly used, and both have Arma language and syntax files available from other places.

Forget about the AH-6X ULB, I don't think anyone has been able to get it to work in MP. Even the MQ-9 UAV is highly problematic, and scripts needs to be built from scratch to make it work properly (modules are pretty much unusable).

[Flightster 10]

Hi,

Are there any 2.29 / 2.54 versions of Domination that support Chernarus? I've tried using the dom maker included in the last versions (links posted by Tankbuster) but there seems to be an issue with the Chernarus versions it created.. To be more precise: The Halojump does not work and neither does the "time parameter".

So I'm basically looking for a working 2.29 / 2.54 version on Chernarus that I can modify into BAF versions..? Prefferably AI..

[Strikor 10]

I can vouch for the MQ-9 being highly problematic. I have it on mine but you need to click the map several thousand times until it gets to its destination. I have not tried the AH-6X but it would probably be even more problematic.

I have not seen any recent Chernarus versions but I also do not server hop much. While it would be a lot of work, you might be best off just making a new conversion to Chernarus.

[Flightster 10]

I honestly wouldn't even know where to start, lol.. My knowledge of the Domination script is pretty basic:

- edit intro

- edit side / main mission rewards

- edit ammo crates

- change vehicles

- change units

- change flags

- ...

So I know how to change the look of it, but not the functionality.. I'll probably will have to go with 2.11 then, seeing as that is the last chernarus version that I know of.

[kdjac 19]

I honestly wouldn't even know where to start, lol.. My knowledge of the Domination script is pretty basic:

- edit intro

- edit side / main mission rewards

- edit ammo crates

- change vehicles

- change units

- change flags

- ...

So I know how to change the look of it, but not the functionality.. I'll probably will have to go with 2.11 then, seeing as that is the last chernarus version that I know of.

Check out Bushlurkers guide to converting domination

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=93010&highlight=domination+islands

[ArmaholicBR 10]

Just a noob question, but when I open a Domination with Editor and modify it, once I save and load it again everthing goes back to default...my changes are gone!

Any way to save your changes in editor? Thanks!

[KC Grimes 79]

Just a noob question, but when I open a Domination with Editor and modify it, once I save and load it again everthing goes back to default...my changes are gone!

Any way to save your changes in editor? Thanks!

What changes are you making? Making sure you are saving, backing out of the editor completely, then starting the correct mission.

[Srinidhalaya 10]

Been searching to no avail, mainly because my eyes are starting to cross.

What files do I need to edit to change the artillary.

Playing AI build

-Need to restrict artillary to Forward Observers only

-Each FO needs a seperate artillary with the default options...3 salvos...ect

I would also like the ability to restrict who can call air drops.

I don't nessisarily need the exact coding, just point me to the correct files.

Thanks a million, and sorry if this has already been addressed, I just cannot find the posts, too many threads come up in search feature.

[Tankbuster 1733]

In i_client, look for a variable called "d_canuseartillery". Like wise for a variable called "d_cancall airdrop"

*variable names may be approximate. :)

[Srinidhalaya 10]

*Two Thumbs up!*

Any Idea on the seperate artillary?

[Tankbuster 1733]

mmm sort of. Domination code allows you to add menu items (addaction) to vehicles and players, you might be able to call the artillery script from the MHQ vehicle that way. That's in i_client too, if I remember correctly.

[Srinidhalaya 10]

One more, I posted on Xeno's post about this one, but I'll put it here too....

What is the possibility to adding civilians to the mix?

-In main target AO; 5 civilians that must be rescued in addition to default operations.

-If 15 civilians are killed throughout the entire mission; Mission Failure.

-Civilians must be rescued and transported back to either the base, or captured village.

-Civilians removed (deleted) once rescued for preformance.

-If enemy attempts to retake a village, 10 civilians spawn and must be relocated.

-Civilians should be neutral to both sides until "rescued" and in transport.

[Srinidhalaya 10]

// is artillery operator

d_can_use_artillery = ["RESCUE","RESCUE2"];

// can call in air drop

#ifndef __TT__

d_can_call_drop = ["alpha_1","charlie_1","echo_1"];

#else

d_can_call_drop = [];

#endif

This is already set up in my mission, but everyone can still use it. So this is not the solution I'm looking for. I did read that in AI versions, everyone can use, but I haven't found the information on how to change that.

[Tankbuster 1733]

Ah, yes, it's because you're using AI version. You either need to find the #IFDEFAIvers parts that control that, or not use AI version.

[Srinidhalaya 10]

I've done quite a bit of searching through damn near every file (notepad ++ WOOT!!), #ifdef __AI__ only shows up in x_setup. So I looked at every line that had 'arti', and found several that referred to ' !(ACEVER) ' which I assume is "not" ace version, but I've tried every line I could find, and no luck.

NOT using AI ver isn't an option, and allowing all users to have the ability isn't either. Any other hints? ;)

OK, I found it. Here it is....

In the x_client folder

x_setupplayer.sqf

Line 557 starts with

if (d_with_ai) then {

[] spawn {

Here it begins to defines the __AI__ version of the game for each client player

A few lines down you see

if (!(__ACEVer)) then {

d_player_can_call_arti = true;

d_player_can_call_drop = true;

This is where it allows all players to be able to drop artillery. Just add some comment lines (//) to exclude some coding, and make it look like this...

// if (!(__ACEVer)) then {

// d_player_can_call_arti = true;

// d_player_can_call_drop = true;

// __pSetVar ["d_ari1", _p addAction ["Call Artillery" call XGreyText, _scriptarti,[1,D_AriTarget],-1,false]];

// __pSetVar ["d_dropaction", _p addAction ["Call Drop" call XGreyText, _scriptdrop,[],-1,false]];

// call _callvecari1;

// call _callvecdrop;

// } else {

// [1] execVM "x_client\x_artiradiocheck.sqf";

// execVM "x_client\x_dropradiocheck.sqf";

// };

_p addRating 20000;

["d_p_group", group player] call XNetCallEvent;

//} else {

The "//} else {" at the end is important to exclude as well (took me a few tries before I realized this), but I left "_p addRating 20000;" and "["d_p_grou...." because I have no idea what they do. The lines just below this edit, which the last "else" that was commented out define, restrict artillary to FO's and air drops to team leaders.

I hope I didn't confuse anyone, I'm not a good teacher...

Edited December 2, 2010 by Srinidhalaya
SOLUTION!

[Tankbuster 1733]

There ya go! Well found. :)

What you've just done is pretty much the same method for chaning lots of other stuff in this mission. In other words, now you've learnt that, the rest is (a bit) easier.

Here's another trick for you..

When you want to change something in the game, it may be that the action you want to change happens before or after some text is shown to the players. If you can find where the game generates that text, you can often work backwards to find the actual code you want.

[Srinidhalaya 10]

Yeah, just time consuming. Next I'm adding a seperate menu action "call artillary" for each FO so they don't share, and then integrating civilians into the Main Target, as mentioned a couple of posts back. Should be entertaining...

[Tankbuster 1733]

I've modified my Domination so much I can't remember what it looks like unmolested. :) When I fiddled with the arty, I remember that everyone who could use it had two share the two barrages available. I assume you are trying to separate them?

---------- Post added at 04:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:01 PM ----------

Yeah, just time consuming.

Also, if you can recruit a code genius into your team, it helps an awful lot. I'm lucky, I've got two decent coders on board.

[Srinidhalaya 10]

I assume you are trying to separate them?

Yes, When I get off work, Im gonna get started on it. I assume I can just create a seperate "Menu Action" for the second observer and have it call on a duplicated/renamed artillery.sqf script. It sounds easy, I hope implenting it is too :)

No such luck on the coders, I start talkin shop/code and I just confuse people... lol

I do have a person who is interested in it, but has no experience. I actually do a lot of java script, line logic, pcl, and block logik programming at work for an energy managment system installer, so I understand how it works. Specific syntax for the arrays is different, but I learn quick.

I'm also thinking of integrating a different spawn system, where you spawn in a C130 that lands at base, and then takes off after a few minuites and flys by the AO incase u wanna para jump, then circles map waiting for next respawn. Lots of todo's on the list...

:)