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xeno426

More Thermal Scopes and Zeroing

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The PP-19 Bizon has a flip up rear sight with 2 settings, 50 & 100 metres.

I'm not sure about reflex sights and their zeroing. I'll take a look and see what I can find.

Ok, I'm a little bit surprised (I shouldn't be really) but reflex sights work in virtually the same way as normal scopes. For example some of the EOTech sights can be adjusted by 1/2" (0.5 MOA) at 100 yards for each click. The Kobra sight is less precise and can be adjusted by 1.1" (1.1 MOA) at 100 yards. From what I've read, they can be adjusted for any range the individual rifle is capable of.

If it was me, I'd set the Kobra sights in 100 metre increments up to the rifle's maximum range. The Western sights such as the EOTech, I'd set those to 50 metre increments up to the rifle's maximum range.

1 last quick edit, information is sketchy at best about the sights used by the G36C. However, I've found out that the G36C shares it's sight system with another H&K rifle, the SL8. According to the SL8 manual, the flip up sights have 2 settings, 1 set at 100 metres and the 2nd set at 300 metres. This would make sense as the G36C is a CQB rifle.

Edited by Moggy

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Ok, that's helpful. Still need info on the M14 and Sa-85 variants.

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The Sa-58 or Vz-58 is very similar to the AK-47. It's sight can be set to 800 metres (bit optimistic) in 8 x 100 metre increments.

Now the M-14 comes in 2 versions, we have the M-14 with the AimPoint scope and the DMR. With a normal iron sight the maximum effective range is 500 yards according to the manual. However with the scope fitted, the effective range is increased to about 800 metres. The scope used by the M-14 (a COMPML2), looks to have 8 settings (4 MOA max, each click .5 MOA). I'd go with 8 increments of 100 metres each for simplicity.

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You don't normally rezero an aimpoint or similar every time the distance changes. Normally done with sniper rifles.

You zero at f.e. 200m ( i think it's written at which distance the sight should be zeroed ) then you calculate the distance and the bullet drop by the size of the reticle ( dot ).

AKs have the 800m setting for "long range "artillery" suppresion fire. Due to the bullet drop and speed it's useless to aim at targets beyond 300m.

@ Moggy

The G36 scoped sights are self explaining like the PSO ones.

Center=200m Circle=400m downwards=600m and 800m.

http://www.remtek.com/arms/hk/civ/sl8/reticle.htm

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Thanks for the information Enforcer, so the AK's at longer ranges are used for suppresion fire. That does make sense to me.

I was looking for information on the rear iron sight settings for the G36C. Unfortunately there isn't a great deal of information around but I did learn that it shares it's sights with the H&K SL8 rifle so I gathered the information for that rifle instead (pages 33 & 34).

http://pdf.textfiles.com/manuals/FIREARMS/hk_sl81.pdf

Edited by Moggy

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So, should I not do zeroing for holo and red-dot sights?

And is the Mk.17 generally similar to the Mk.16 settings?

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Normally not. Weapons equiped with these sights are not meant to be used beyond 200m ( under normal circumstances > missing magnification ).

The Mk.16 and 17 share the same sighting system, but also they can be zeroed but are not intended for repeated re-zeroing.

An acquaintance told me when he was with the Bundeswehr he zeroed his rifle ( ironsights ) to a higher setting and aimed low when a target was closer. Faster that switching the knob and reacquiring the target.

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I can understand Enforcer's points about zeroing on the battlefield but I disagree. 2 questions pop into my mind;

Does a soldier (snipers aside) adjust his sights on the battlefield?...Probably not.

Can a soldier adjust his sights on the battlefield?...In most cases yes he can.

Also, what if you're firing on a range in game? Personally I'd like to have the ability to be able to adjust for elevation if the sights are adjustable in real life. I was trained on the Lee Enfield No.4, at ranges of 300 yards and below I'd use the battlesight, at ranges above 300 yards, I'd use the leaf sight.

As a compromise Xeno, you could make the zeroing mod for holo and red dot sights a seperate .pbo file.

Edited by Moggy

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is this mod ACE2-compatible, or is this feature included into ACE2?

(I haven't played with ACE2 yet)

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I have not made any adjustments to make this ACE-compatible. Use it in ACE at your own risk.

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M16/M4 carrying handle sights have like 15 adjustments from 300-800, and don't have a constant number of adjustments between each 100 meter (IE there's 4-5 clicks from 300 to 400m, but 2-3 clicks from 600 to 700). Been a while since I've played with one, and haven't got to play with a rail system carrying handle to know if it's different. But frankly, I'd be happy with 50m adjustments from like 300-600, then a 700 and 800. At those ranges you're not really trying to hit a person with iron sights anyways.

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That's the problem, having never used a M4 or M16 all I can do is try to interpret the data I can find. With the L98 rifles, the rear sight is adjustable from 100-500 metres in 5 increments by use of a simple wheel you can turn with your thumb behind the sight.

Another factor to consider, is the view range in game. With ironsights I can barely see a human target at 700-800 metres anyway, so what SCfan is saying about the range settings makes sense to me. I find with the 5.56mm round the bullet moves around a lot after 600 metres in game, even when coupled to a scope like on the Mk.12 SPR it's difficult to hit a human sized target at ranges above this.

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Does anyone have any info on the sights used by the AKM and MG36?

Edited by Xeno426

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New updates to the Zeroing mod. The AKM has been left as-is and the MG-36 has been given the default 100x800 zoom in the absence of proper information.

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The MG36 shares it's sights with the other G36 rifles fitted with Holo sights, so it'll have the same settings and increments as those. The AKM's sight settings in game is correct, 800 metres at 8 100 metre increments.

Edited by Moggy

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the default zeroing value for grenade launcher is 400m and unchangeable. But it matches neither the crosshair sight nor the iron-sight.

Edited by msy

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I have an error message everytime I use a savegame :

"cant play/edit content deleted"

After check, that message originate from each of your mod I use :

-tgw_lav25des_rep

-tgw_strykerfix

-tgw_thermal

-tgw_zeroing_anzins_aim

Any ideas ?

Should I use another mod for compatibility ?

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The problem seems to be from the Zeroing mod, though I am not sure what.

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Hi Xeno426, I just yesterday came around to play with your mod and noticed the same problem with savegames. I deleted the preloadAddons part in the config and it works now. I only use zeroing_anzins.

Some info about it's function can be found here, no idea why it does show the error when the addon is active though. Seems to work fine without that part.

And thanks again for your work and including Anzins :)

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Hmm, I'll have to remove those lines and release a cleaned-up version of my mods. Was it just the PreloadAddons entry? You didn't have to delete the CfgAddons entry?

[EDIT]

Nevermind, I fixed it. See first post.

Edited by Xeno426

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the default zeroing value for grenade launcher is still 400m and can not change. And the value is mistaken in iron sight.

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The zeroing add-on is great, but some observations. First, all sights can be zeroed in some way, but this does not mean that all sights are meant to be adjusted on the fly on the battlefield. Sights such as the ACOG RCO and Elcan RCO are meant to be zeroed on the range at 100m, then the BDC (bullet drop compensating) reticle used in the field for range holdover. Changeing the zero is not just a matter of reaching up and rotating a knob with your fingers like on some sniper rifle scopes. Example of the USMC RCO reticle below:

ACOG.jpg

more detailed explanation here: http://www.mcrdpi.usmc.mil/units/wftbn/schools/CMC/docs/STUDENT%20OUTLINES/Sustainment/CMC%2041R%20Introduction%20to%20Rifle%20Combat%20Optic%20(RCO)%20SO.doc

Note that the top point of the red chevron is the 100m aiming point and inside point of the chevron is the 200m aiming point.

Now you might say just set your zero to 100m at mission start and leave it alone and then everyone can be happy, but there are two issues:

1. While BIS has provided us all we need to realistically use BDC recticles, their zeros are sadly off. The ACOG, for example, needs to be zeroed somewhere between 100m-200m for the range marks on the reticle to work properly. Being able to change your zero to 200m is helpful, as this is closer to correct, but it still seems slightly off. The Elcan RCO (Mk. 17) also appears to be off, and I'm sure others are, as well.

2. The bigger problem: zero is reset every time you switch to backup/CQB sights. For example, I might start a mission with Mk. 16 w/ACOG RCO and set the ACOG to 200m (from TGW 300m default) so I can aim on the fly using the BDC reticle, but if I switch to the red dot sight and back, the ACOG will be reset to 300m. This means I have to adjust the zero of the ACOG every time I bring it up (I always switch to CQB sights when not in aiming mode), when I should never have to adjust it at all. With Anzins add-on this problem is extended to other sights, like the Elcan MGOs on the SAW and M240 (and here the TGW default zero of 400m is even more wildly off from the intended 100m zero for the BDC reticle).

While I don't know actual practice in the field with Russian optics like the PSO, but what I've read suggests they are meant to be zeroed once and the reticle marks used for holdover for range.

svd_ret.jpg

In my opinion, the only firearms that should have on-the-fly zeroing are those with adjustable iron sights or magnifying daylight/night optics that do not have some form of BDC reticle (e.g.

US sniper rifle scopes, thermal scopes and nightvision scopes, except NSPU which may have some form of BDC).

Those with BDC reticles should have their zeroes fixed at the correct range for the BDC to work as intended.

Edited by akd42

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the default zeroing value for grenade launcher is still 400m and can not change. And the value is mistaken in iron sight.

That's because it can't be changed. Launchers (missile or grenade) cannot use the zeroing function.

---------- Post added at 05:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:29 PM ----------

The zeroing add-on is great, but some observations. First, all sights can be zeroed in some way, but this does not mean that all sights are meant to be adjusted on the fly on the battlefield. Sights such as the ACOG RCO and Elcan RCO are meant to be zeroed on the range at 100m, then the BDC (bullet drop compensating) reticle used in the field for range holdover. Changeing the zero is not just a matter of reaching up and rotating a knob with your fingers like on some sniper rifle scopes.

Can you make a list of sights that should not realistically be changeable in the field, along with what they are commonly defaulted to? I can split the mod up between a realistic version and everything having a zeroing ability. This would replace the current Aimpoint/non-Aimpoint split I currently have going.

1. While BIS has provided us all we need to realistically use BDC recticles, their zeros are sadly off. The ACOG, for example, needs to be zeroed somewhere between 100m-200m for the range marks on the reticle to work properly. Being able to change your zero to 200m is helpful, as this is closer to correct, but it still seems slightly off. The Elcan RCO (Mk. 17) also appears to be off, and I'm sure others are, as well.

I might be able to fix this. It's probably related to distanceZoomMin/Max.

2. The bigger problem: zero is reset every time you switch to backup/CQB sights.

I noticed this as well. While I can't fix the issue where the game forgets your zeroing whenever you switch to/from backup sights, I can easily set the default zeroing to 100m, though.

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Can you make a list of sights that should not realistically be changeable in the field, along with what they are commonly defaulted to? I can split the mod up between a realistic version and everything having a zeroing ability. This would replace the current Aimpoint/non-Aimpoint split I currently have going.

When I get a chance, I will try, but it might be easier to just make a list of the ones with optics that should have "field zeroing". I can't think of any guns with iron sights-only in the game right now that shouldn't have any easy adjustment, save for pistols and the small "sidearm" SMGs, so that's a big portion of the list right there.

I might be able to fix this. It's probably related to distanceZoomMin/Max.

If there is not a generic fix, you might be able to set a fixed zero to correct the problem on a weapon by weapon basis (as I mentioned, a 200m zero on the Mk. 16 EGLM RCO is closer to accurate for range with the BDC). Take a look at RobertHammer's HK416 pack. I think he gave his ACOGs a fixed zero of 189m (but they are not the same as BIS reticle).

I noticed this as well. While I can't fix the issue where the game forgets your zeroing whenever you switch to/from backup sights, I can easily set the default zeroing to 100m, though.

Depends on the particular sights involved.

Edited by akd42

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