British and dutch plane spotters found guilty

[KingBeast 0]

The group of 12 British and two Dutch plane-spotters arrested on spy charges in Greece are found guilty as charged.

BBC News

[Intruder 0]

Bummer

They were charged with spying, yet they were unlikely to be spies cos they were actually plane spotters! If they were spies, who do they think they were spying for?

[KingBeast 0]

Yeah silliest thing though is tht the informatin they gathered and what is subsequently being relted to "spying" was all publicly available. So these sad plane spotter geeks are going to face jail sentences for being nerds

[Damage Inc 0]

Why would anyone want to spy on Greece?

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

To find out about the secret ingredients in the Greek-salad and Souflaki recipe

[KingBeast 0]

Exactly

[hkg3 0]

Yeah Greece that place of massive technological breakthroughs, where secret things are worth spying on, mind you with all that topless birds on the beach you would have thought that birdspotting would have been the better option.

I can see it now,

"HK you are accused of being a planespotter",

"what have you to say in your defence"?,

"planespotter!, don't make me laugh i'm a spy"

Spy in my book sounds that little bit harder and much more glamorous than Planespotter!!!

[John C Flett 0]

Can't say I'm too sorry for them. The jump from planespotting to spy may seem a bit far but these guys took stupidity above and beyond the call of duty.

When they started they were warned that following Sept 11th extra security measures were being taken and they were to cease there activities.

So they went back.

And they were taken in and warned explicitly that if they returned to the airbase they would be charged with spying.

So they went back.

If they'd been arrested with no warning they'd have fair reason to complain but after two warnings and the strongest possible caution its kind of hard to imagine why any sane person would repeat their actions.

The sentence may be a bit hard under the circumstances but they can't say they weren't warned.

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

Like John C Flett said, they were taking the piss and got the proper bollocking for that.

If you get told explicitly not to take notes and not to take pictures and not go into restricted areas, and you do just that and get caught, then what the hell do you expect?

Only because they are British and Dutch, doesn't mean that they are innocent. I read the messageboards on BBC, some people try to turn this into a UK vs. Greece thing. Absolute rubbish, in Greece (like every other proper democracy) the judiciary(sp?), ie. the Courts, are TOTALLY and ABSOLUTELY independent from the government and the people etc. It is the court's decision, nobody else's.

As for who would spy on Greece, just look at a bloody map! We are right at the edge of the EU. We have semi-hostile countries to our North and to our East, hostile countries to our South-east, South and South west. If you look at the Eastern Mediterranean region, we have the second most sophisticated military and the 3rd largest as well. There's plenty of people that would love to know where we have holes.

As for the planespotters, I personally believe they are guilty of stupidity and breaking security at an important airbase and hence endangering national security. Please also be aware that two of the planespotters were at a Turkish airbase a year ago, on official invitation from the Turkish government. Considering the state of affairs between Greece and Turkey, this is something that has to be considered. I personally didn't expect them to get acquitted because of UK pressure, but I have to say that I am pleased that the courts didn't cave in and listened to the evidence only. Serves them bloody right.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

From what I have read elsewhere during the last half an hour I must admit that those British people consistently disrespected orders! And to accuse greece of being a country without law is ridiculous. If you need the thrill then pay for it!

(still I dont think they went spying, but what were they doing?)

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Albert Schweizer @ April 26 2002,22:03)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">From what I have read elsewhere during the last half an hour I must admit that those British people consistently disrespected orders! And to accuse greece of being a country without law is ridiculous. If you need the thrill then pay for it!

(still I dont think they went spying, but what were they doing?)<span id='postcolor'>

They weren't charged for spying anyway in the end.

I think it was merely "collection of classified material", or "illegal collection of information" or something like that. I'll have a look around and see.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

Die Gruppe ist schon vor ihrer Verhaftung mit der Militärpolizei zusammengestoßen: in Tanagra bei Athen, unter dem Verdacht, verbotenerweise fotografiert zu haben. Sie sind offenbar bei einem hochgeheimen Fliegerhorst bei Megara gewesen, der auf keiner Touristenkarte verzeichnet ist. Zudem hat Paul Coppin gute Kontakte in die Türkei, dem Intimfeind der Griechen. Das letzte Mal ist er im Mai dort gewesen und hat mit "führenden Militärs" gesprochen, behaupten die Griechen.

Bla Bla Bla, I know you cant read that but I tell ya. First of all the judge cant just drop an incident like that because it wasnt the first time they got caught. In fact they have also entered the high security area of Megara.

Furthermore has Paul Coppin (one of the Brits) good relations with Turkey (as you know the Phantom-enemy of the greeks) where he is supposed to have met with representatives of the military!

I think that Greece is not going too far here considering the fact that the Uk is deciding next week about the new Anti-terror law which allows it to throw any suspicious person without a british passport into jail for unlimited time without trial! Now the louder you shout over there in the UK the more you will hear an Echo. It is once again one of those boomerang stories that might come flying back one day!

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

I can read it perfectly (hab' immerhin 'nen Realschulabschluss von 'nem Karlsruher Gymnasium )

I didn't know the story about Megara

Where did you find this?? Link PLEASE!!

As for Turkey, they are not our phantom enemies, they are real ones. Well, as real as NATO members can be real enemies. The fact is that Turkey keeps provoking us (1994 we almost went to war! and that its basically a cold war between us and them, just like US and SU (what a coincidence how these abbreviations relate to each other ) were. Only since the earthquakes have the tensions reached a sudden low point.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

With Phantom I meant that the whole conflict appears somehow surreal for the rest of Europe. What do you fear? You are a part of the EU and they want to become one! The war is over people, cypris will keep its Berlin Wall for the next 50 years!

Berlin Online News

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

What are we afraid of?

http://www.mod.gr/english/index.htm

Go to "Borders Sovereignty Stability".

It is a lengthy read, but it should make clear what we fear. Also bear in mind WHEN that incident happened!!

[rpc007 0]

SAS SAS SAS... time for some SAS,    that would be weird, Britain at war with Greece, anyways.... i dont think they should have been arrested for espionage, maybe trespassing on government property or something

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

well, I dont realy know if they were finally charged for "espionage", maybe they were just accused with it in the begining of the trial!

[Wobble 1]

their guilty of being idiots, thats for sure. especially after sept 11.. when somone tells you to not tresspass on their base and do that shit.. and you turn around and do it they will either think:

A: your amazingly stupid.

B: you have some deeper goal in what your that makes the risk justified..

...

[Warin 0]

*blinks*

Stop the presses! I totally agree with Wobble. think this has to be a first.

If you are told NOT to do something, and you continue to do it, you forfeit all rights to complain when you get slapped down for being such a twit.

[KingBeast 0]

Six British plane-spotters found guilty of spying at a military air show in Greece are preparing to fly home after launching an appeal against their convictions.

A Greek judge ruled the Britons and two Dutchmen, who each received three-year jail sentences after being found guilty of espionage, could go home pending their appeal hearing.

Downing Street said the prime minister had discussed the case with his Greek counterpart, Costas Simitis.

"The government has always believed the response to this case has been disproportionate and will continue to give the defendants and their families as much help as it can," Tony Blair's official spokesman said.

Stephen Jakobi, director of Fair Trials Abroad, said the verdicts would have wider repercussions.

"I've forecast all along that if the Greeks got this one wrong the shock waves would be felt throughout Europe."

Stupid people mayhaps, but 3 years is waaaaay too harsh if you ask me. And they are all old (30-40 or older

[rpc007 0]

only 3 years for espionage? hmmm... come to america and be guilty of espionage and we'll fry ya!

[Tex -USMC- 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (rpc007 @ April 27 2002,03:18)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">only 3 years for espionage? hmmm... come to america and be guilty of espionage and we'll fry ya!<span id='postcolor'>

or if we like you, we'll botch the investigation and a lawyer with his shit together will get you off on a technicality

[KingBeast 0]

I think its incredibly stupid calling it espionage. Every single item of info the spotters collected was already available to the general public and can easily be found elsewhere. Its just a stupid geeky hobby and these people are going to be in a foreign jail cell for 3 years.

Personally I think that sucks and i feel very sorry for those people.

[Guest]

Wanna bet that they aren't going to sit off the three years in jail? The use of them as leverage in trade negotiations or something similar is far more useful then keeping a group of morons in jail.

[KingBeast 0]

Well we will just have to wait and see really. Even being in a foreign jail for a few weeks or months would be horrible enough.