School shooting in germany!

[red oct 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (second_draw @ April 26 2002,13:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Ex-RoNiN @ April 26 2002,13:46)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">.....Maybe guns should be banned altogether, just like in England.<span id='postcolor'>

and like here in australia. Some looney went on a rampage killing many ppl here in australia & ruined it for everyone else. At least i have the knowledge i won't be a body count in a massacre or maybe.......  <span id='postcolor'>

weapons are banned in England?! i didnt know that. is really every single form of weapon or can you have certian weapons for hunting purposes? personally i think banning all types of fire arms is a totally stupid idea, yea education on how to use them and very strict backround checks that should determin whether or not you can who a fire arm should be a definite must as much as trigger locks, but banning all guns is just stupid, all it becomes like the drug proplem, all the law binding citizens will obey the no guns law, but criminals will still buy and use them for wrong.

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Red Oct @ April 26 2002,21:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (second_draw @ April 26 2002,13:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Ex-RoNiN @ April 26 2002,13:46)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">.....Maybe guns should be banned altogether, just like in England.<span id='postcolor'>

and like here in australia. Some looney went on a rampage killing many ppl here in australia & ruined it for everyone else. At least i have the knowledge i won't be a body count in a massacre or maybe.......  <span id='postcolor'>

weapons are banned in England?! i didnt know that. is really every single form of weapon or can you have certian weapons for hunting purposes?<span id='postcolor'>

Hunters only may own shotguns that can't hold more than 3 shots i think. might even be just 1.

everything else (pistols, revolvers, smg's, ar's, strong airguns(!!) is totally banned.

Even the cops are unarmed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What you call a SWAT team is here the ARU (Armed Response Unit), who are called out when a gun-related crime is reported or when someone plays with his airsoft rifle on the street. As far as I know, the only armed cops are police officers in Northern Ireland and cops at airports.

[Hilandor 1]

yes after the dunblane massacare in scotland i think there was a big change to the handgun laws for sports etc

i think all im legal to use is a .22 air rifle

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

as for wobble's theory of a "death-list" and what not, i'd really like to see your sources on that, 'cos my sources say something different

[red oct 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Ex-RoNiN @ April 26 2002,21:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Red Oct @ April 26 2002,21:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (second_draw @ April 26 2002,13:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Ex-RoNiN @ April 26 2002,13:46)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">.....Maybe guns should be banned altogether, just like in England.<span id='postcolor'>

and like here in australia. Some looney went on a rampage killing many ppl here in australia & ruined it for everyone else. At least i have the knowledge i won't be a body count in a massacre or maybe.......  <span id='postcolor'>

weapons are banned in England?! i didnt know that. is really every single form of weapon or can you have certian weapons for hunting purposes?<span id='postcolor'>

Hunters only may own shotguns that can't hold more than 3 shots i think. might even be just 1.

everything else (pistols, revolvers, smg's, ar's, strong airguns(!!) is totally banned.

Even the cops are unarmed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What you call a SWAT team is here the ARU (Armed Response Unit), who are called out when a gun-related crime is reported or when someone plays with his airsoft rifle on the street. As far as I know, the only armed cops are police officers in Northern Ireland and cops at airports.<span id='postcolor'>

YOUR POLICE DONT EVEN HAVE GUNS?!!! WTF IS UP WITH THAT? whats the poepoe supose to do when a loonitic is about to shoot him?! spit on him?! do they even at the very least get a freaking stun gun?!! what ever happened to the good old dark days in enland? i miss those days

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Ex-RoNiN @ April 26 2002,21:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Red Oct @ April 26 2002,21:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (second_draw @ April 26 2002,13:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Ex-RoNiN @ April 26 2002,13:46)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">.....Maybe guns should be banned altogether, just like in England.<span id='postcolor'>

and like here in australia. Some looney went on a rampage killing many ppl here in australia & ruined it for everyone else. At least i have the knowledge i won't be a body count in a massacre or maybe.......  <span id='postcolor'>

weapons are banned in England?! i didnt know that. is really every single form of weapon or can you have certian weapons for hunting purposes?<span id='postcolor'>

Hunters only may own shotguns that can't hold more than 3 shots i think. might even be just 1.

everything else (pistols, revolvers, smg's, ar's, strong airguns(!!) is totally banned.

Even the cops are unarmed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What you call a SWAT team is here the ARU (Armed Response Unit), who are called out when a gun-related crime is reported or when someone plays with his airsoft rifle on the street. As far as I know, the only armed cops are police officers in Northern Ireland and cops at airports.<span id='postcolor'>

I already feel sorry for what would happen your "lorries" (police) if an "armed" lunatic decided to on a rampage. I mean, you can ban guns, but it is impossible to keep them out of the hands of someone who is determind to obtain them.

[Guest]

The fact is that England has the lowest count of police murders in the world. That doesnt however say how good they at catching the criminals

[Renagade 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Red Oct @ April 26 2002,21:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Ex-RoNiN @ April 26 2002,21:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Red Oct @ April 26 2002,21:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (second_draw @ April 26 2002,13:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Ex-RoNiN @ April 26 2002,13:46)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">.....Maybe guns should be banned altogether, just like in England.<span id='postcolor'>

and like here in australia. Some looney went on a rampage killing many ppl here in australia & ruined it for everyone else. At least i have the knowledge i won't be a body count in a massacre or maybe.......  <span id='postcolor'>

weapons are banned in England?! i didnt know that. is really every single form of weapon or can you have certian weapons for hunting purposes?<span id='postcolor'>

Hunters only may own shotguns that can't hold more than 3 shots i think. might even be just 1.

everything else (pistols, revolvers, smg's, ar's, strong airguns(!!) is totally banned.

Even the cops are unarmed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What you call a SWAT team is here the ARU (Armed Response Unit), who are called out when a gun-related crime is reported or when someone plays with his airsoft rifle on the street. As far as I know, the only armed cops are police officers in Northern Ireland and cops at airports.<span id='postcolor'>

YOUR POLICE DONT EVEN HAVE GUNS?!!! WTF IS UP WITH THAT? whats the poepoe supose to do when a loonitic is about to shoot him?! spit on him?! do they even at the very least get a freaking stun gun?!! what ever happened to the good old dark days in enland? i miss those days <span id='postcolor'>

Yes lets have trigger happy cops unning about the streets when theres really no need.

As far as i know we have armed responce units usually armed with mp5s and glocks and probably more stuff like snipers etc if the situation called for it.

The most u can get in the UK without a license is a 12 ft/lb air-rifle or a 6 ft/lb pistol though u can get a crossbow or compound bow which is much more dangerous than the airrifle also its if u have a certian gun license u can get a pump shotgun but it can only hold 3 shells including the one in the chamber.

As for this situation im going to be controversial and say why the hell a kids life should be more important than ours, of course discounting emotional trauma suffered by parents and relatives etc

discuss

[ralphwiggum 6]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Wobble @ April 26 2002,20:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">and it has nothing to do with guns.. or their availability or lack there of.. if you want to kill someone bad enough, you can get a gun no matter where you are..  guns are to other countries like cocane is to the US.. supposidly hard to get and goverment is all over it... but can be attained with almost minimal effort on any given weekend.<span id='postcolor'>

i see you are getting defensive!

for counter example, JPN has really strict gun laws and never heard a JPN highschool kid going on rampage with a gun. but there were case with sashimi knives.(long and used for cutting fishes)

[timmy 0]

damn this is bad, worse than colubine. I remember around the time befor columbin wed average a school shooting about every two months here in the US, but after columbine, they virtually ceased except for one or two.

[Wobble 1]

for counter example, JPN has really strict gun laws and never heard a JPN highschool kid going on rampage with a gun

here is another example

in 1987 all forms of guns were banned in South Africa, it has the stricties gun laws IN THE WORLD. In 1990 the rape, murder, assualt and robber rates began to increase, by 1995 South Africa had the highest crim rate in the world.

Right now it has the 4th highest.  the US has the 15th, "russia" is 11, lebanon 3rd columbia is 1st with cuba being a close second..

[advocatexxx 0]

In other words you're saying banning guns results in more crime. Hmmm, interesting hypothesis.

If I'm not mistaken, I believe in Switzerland everyone is issued an assault rifle at the age of 18 (or 21 ?). Also, if I'm not mistaken, I believe that country has a very low crime rate.

Can anyone confirm this ? Do we have some obese Swiss girl here who could also perhaps yodel for us ?

Seriously.

[LordZach 0]

don't know anything about Switzerland but there is a city in Georgia, Chickisaw or something, where the head of the household is required by law to own a gun and they have an extremely low crime rate. i'd try to dig up an article but i saw it on the news about a year ago

[Wobble 1]

In other words you're saying banning guns results in more crime.  Hmmm, interesting hypothesis

im not saying that.. that is what the numbers show in that particular case..  I dont know the gun laws of those other countries..

I just know that criminals can always get guns.. and taking them away from the people who would need them (the victims) just makes the criminal's job less hazardous.

not to say that has anything to do with the situation in germany. thats just sad shit.. period.. but gun laws probably made no difference one way or another in that situation

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (advocatexxx @ April 26 2002,23:42)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">In other words you're saying banning guns results in more crime.  Hmmm, interesting hypothesis.

If I'm not mistaken, I believe in Switzerland everyone is issued an assault rifle at the age of 18 (or 21 ?).  Also, if I'm not mistaken, I believe that country has a very low crime rate.

Can anyone confirm this ?  Do we have some obese Swiss girl here who could also perhaps yodel for us ?

Seriously.<span id='postcolor'>

The crime rate is basically non existant. I got my Appt in Lausanne and I can assure you that it is one of the safest spots on earth. But this could also be due to the reason that it is a very rich country in general. Poverty doesnt realy exist! The crime rate in Switzerland is mostly due to gangs from the Eastern-block that travel through Europe doing their dirty jobs!

And yes, after military service everyone is obliged to take his rifle home with him.

But this thesis that "more guns on the road" limit crime rate is the biggest.... on earth! The example with the US on place 14 has something to do with is financial power to provide security services (e.g. police) not because it allows everyone to have guns.

I havent heard one strong argument yet why it would be of any help if everyone would have a gun. I cant even imagine what it means to be a police-officer in a country where everyone has a gun. I dont see the advantage? Oh, is it because the 23 year old neighbours son can support the police and surprise the gangster from behind? Oh shoot a burglar once he comes through the window?

The problem right now in europe is that we have broad open boarders and from any side we got illegal gangs coming in to make money. Especially those gangs from russia have no morals at all. This is where most people can buy their guns, a pumpgun isnt allowed at all in Germany, only ordinary hunting rifles! But even a incident of 18 dead people makes doesnt realy make our statistics comparable to those of the US

Statistics about student shootings in the US (strange Site though)

[Wobble 1]

I havent heard one strong argument yet why it would of any help if everyone would have a gun. I cant even imagine what it means to be a police-officer in a country where everyone has a gun. I dont see the advantage?

the problem is.. the police dont show up till AFTER the crime.. if the criminal is still there they may catch him.. but between the time he shows up and the time you call the police and when they arrive (assuming you even get to call) there s a LONG time where its nothing between the criminal you and/or your family except what YOU can do..

if a criminal wants to kill you.. there is nothing the police can do about it except *maby* catch the guy AFTER the crim.. i.e. your dead..  if you have a gun in your house at least you have SOME measure of control over your own destiny..

even the police themselves say.. that they can really prevent a crime.. only hope to catch the criminal after the crime.. and to me that is just not good enough..

if there was a cop within 30 seconds of my house all the time that could show up instantly in the event of an emergency.. then well that would be different..  but thats not the way it is.. and it never will be..  cops and great and all but 99% of the time WHEN IT MATTERS its just you and the criminal(s).. and either your going to be unarmed and leave your life in that hands of a criminal.. or yer gonna have a fighting chance..  i choose the latter

I cant even imagine what it means to be a police-officer in a country where everyone has a gun

cops get called on criminals.. criminals dont follow laws.. criminals wuldent follow no-gun laws..  

and I imagine a cop would be perfectly at ease around a innocent responsable citizen, weather they own a firearm or not.. because they are not a threat.. accept to a criminal.

I cant even imagine what it means to be a police-officer in a country where everyone has a gun

imagine how a criminal feels.. knowing everyone has the means by which to effectivley defend themself, insted of just being helpless sheep they can push around

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

That is true that criminals dont follow gun-laws. But there are criminals and there are criminals. Some criminals become it unintentionally, simply being drunk, problem with the neighbour...stuff like that, children that love to hold the gun of the father in their hands while they are away.

And most criminals here have a different moral border. They want to brake into cars, sell drugs or steal stuff in houses, but carrying a gun brings the whole crime to a different level. Now if those criminals would be used the fact that everone wears a gun (maybe even the guy you want to rob) of course you take a gun too. Of course we have criminality here, but it doesnt escalate that often that people get killed.

The same is true for chasing criminals in their cars. We can watch the stuff filmed from helicopters in the US (on Sky or so). The end is very often that the criminal feels trapped and the result is often that civillians get, hurt, police gets hurt...or the criminal gets killed. THis means, catching the criminal is more important that protecting civillians!

Take a rest click here, tun on sound (doesnt load longer than 3 sec)

[Die Alive 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (LordZach @ April 26 2002,16:58)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">don't know anything about Switzerland but there is a city in Georgia, Chickisaw or something, where the head of the household is required by law to own a gun and they have an extremely low crime rate.  i'd try to dig up an article but i saw it on the news about a year ago  <span id='postcolor'>

I've seen this as well, and it was in Georgia, dont remember the town or county, but I do remember seeing on TV a few years back.

-=Die Alive=-

[Wobble 1]

But there are criminals and there are criminals. Some criminals become it unintentionally, simply being drunk, problem with the neighbour

well.. there are drunk drivers and just plain BAD drivers aswell.. but nobody wants to ban cars..

children that love to hold the gun of the father in their hands while they are away

thats the parents problem, the rest of socity shouldent suffer just because some idiots are not smart enough to effectivley lock up a firearm when they are gone..

And most criminals here have a different moral border. They want to brake into cars, sell drugs or steal stuff in houses, but carrying a gun brings the whole crime to a different level. Now if those criminals would be used the fact that everone wears a gun (maybe even the guy you want to rob) of course you take a gun too.

If a criminal is going to commit a crime they think could involve direct interaction with people I.E. robbery, rape, burglery.. etc etc.. they WILL be armed.. regardless of weather they think the victim is or not... in fact I doube any sane criminal would risk a confrontation with someone they are sure has a gun.. because they are betting their life on the HOPE that they are better with a gun than their victim.. and that would be gutsy to the point of insanity.

The end is very often that the criminal feels trapped and the result is often that civillians get, hurt, police gets hurt...or the criminal gets killed. THis means, catching the criminal is more important that protecting civillians!

actually we chase so aggressivley because MOST of the time the person runs because they have something with them at the time that is incriminating.. guns.. drugs.. a dead body.. whatever.. the problem with just arresting them later is that they have time to get rid of that shit.. which is not good.. so in that case yes, catching a criminal that probably is running for a good reason justifies the potental risk..

of course there are cases where its just a drunk idiot.. or a dumb kid.. or whatever.. but thats the exceptio, not the rule..

plus if criminals ran.. and we let them go.. they woul ALL run..

Take a rest click here, tun on sound (doesnt load longer than 3 sec)

I may have to kill you now.. 3 long years it has taken me to get the fucking hamster dance out of my head.. now its back.. uuggh!!

[KingBeast 0]

The murder of 17 people at a school in Germany has prompted new debate over gun laws in several European countries.

In Germany, lawmakers approved a government proposal to tighten weapons laws, by coincidence just two hours after the massacre.

The proposal, which must go to the upper house, requires a licence to carry gas-powered and blank pistols, banned several kinds of knives completely, along with separate storage of guns and ammunition

In France, politicians began taking a long look at gun laws last month after a man wielding two Glock semiautomatic pistols and a .357 Magnum shot dead eight city officials in the Paris suburb of Nanterre.

Even Switzerland is reconsidering its gun laws, which are the most relaxed in Western Europe

[Tovarish 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Wobble @ April 26 2002,23:36)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">columbia is 1st with cuba being a close second..<span id='postcolor'>

Right....and damn near every patrol car has an AK in the trunk, so it has nothing to do with the cops being outgunned by the criminals.

[Renagade 0]

Great, more knee-jerk lawmaking there

BTW a pet peeve of mine is that ur a criminal if u have let ur dog poo in public,streaked across a football game,bought alchohol for minors and other trivial laws so what im saying is that the  use of the word 'criminal' is really too broad a word to describe certain ppl.

[KingBeast 0]

You are a criminal if you wear an anorak and look at planes flying around

[Wobble 1]

well, its hard to designate "murderer" when were talking about them BEFORE they actually commit the act.. so "criminal" is about all I could call it.. well in my house.. it would be "a body"

as for the sudden gun law legeslation crap over there.. its a kneejerk reaction ( and a stupid one)  for fear of public outcry the govs are saying "ohh look were are gonna do something about this"

just like after columbine that fat nitwit Rosie Odonal(sp) comes on her talk show the next day and decrys "anyone who owns a gun should be thrown in jail"

times like this people fear that they are gonna be blamed.. so they do something.. ANYTHING to say "look im doing something" oftin without any real thought.. and lots of times it ends up biting them in the ass

look at the example here in germany.. no was could this kid have LEGALLY gotten these guns.. so the law doesent in any cause/apply/change ANYTHING at all.. but what do they do.. change laws that didnt effect it in the first place..

its like somebody falling to their death from a city building.. and as a result they lower the speed limit on that road.. doesent make any sense..

now if this kid had legally attianed this weapon through a loophole in the law or something.. that would be one thing.. but the case that is not.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KingBeast @ April 27 2002,04:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You are a criminal if you wear an anorak and look at planes flying around <span id='postcolor'>

I am fed up with you! You are wasting your time here chitchating in this forum while the world desperately waits for your Mod. We are not getting younger and soon I will be to busy (too employed) to play OFP and then.........?

Well you can imagine the desaster!