CM Operation Flashpoint 3 announced | "Oops, they're doing it again..."

[ben_s 11]

Yes and no, there were several missions in Operation Flashpoint where you stood guard duty or had downtime..one mission involved you driving across a countryside to a location to set up base camp, then pack up and move out to another location and another to move supplies.

Personally I think things like that is what made the game, sitting on the island at night, hearing of a possible spetznaz sneaking it and looking around while alert as well as the missions where its far wiser to sneak your way through and past (in some cases you have no choice) and the driving around without fighting. I'd have to say driving the truck while listening to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YunE-yvn-JE&feature=related is one of the most memorable things.

I'm going to be blasphemous for a moment, I think that Cold War Crisis, the work of art that it is, was a combination of both BIS and CM, not just one or the other..afterall we have had spritual successors but have they exactly been like CWC?

The campaign lengths are far shorter, you hardly see the variety of mission types, and the character personalities are by comparison very narrow. ( James Gastovski, Robert Hammer, Victor Troska and David Armstrong, hell even Blake) The humor went from a bit amusing to childish.. "She's nice and warm sir, just he way you like her." "speaking of stink what's that smell, you filled your shorts? I don't know, here you want to take a look?" To "Thats not what your sister said" and

I facepalmed when Herrera needed translation for the one Takistani local whom was obviously speaking understandable english

One of the absolute best things about CWC is the memorable characters and how they experienced a wide range of emotions, they actually seemed human

While BIS may have the engine and are advancing to make it, and CM has the name, both are fragmented and likely needed eachother (at the time) to make what was this materpiece, I personally think we will never see anything with the depth that CWC had for some time.

Hmm, I agree. CWC was a great game. I don't know why everyone spams facepalm pics at anyone who goes "CM and BIS working together would be better", because its true.

I have a feeling we're not gonna get another CWC until this dispute between BIS and CM is settled and they get back together to create the first, proper OFP since CWC and RH. I mean, ArmA is good and all. But it really lacks a few things that CWC had. The overall feeling, Now, I do not know if this "feeling" was created by BIS alone, or whether CM helped alot during this proccess. And we, probably shall never find out.

I know most people here will say that CM had no input to the game, but its obvious that isn't true when you look at them side by side. So, Yeah. I highly doubt we shall see something like CWC for a long time, too.

---------- Post added at 08:59 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:57 AM ----------

No it's not. The reason we're having this argument was because something TemplarGFX said on the other forums to justify fpdr 's existence under the name OFP. You're going through this whole song and dance to avoid calling ArmA 2 a sim for some reason. ArmA 2 is a sim game, OFP: DR is not. If ArmA 2 is a genre of it's own, OFP is in the same genre. FPDR is not. I think most people believed that OFP was a sim game until FPDR came out. Now to avoid admitting they've lost something, they try to revise history and rewrite definitions.

And ArmA deserves the OFP name more?

Neither game live up to the OFP name, and neither deserves it IMO. Sorry but, DR... well that needs no explination.

ArmA just doesn't have the campaign, the feeling nor the story. Neither really do fully deserve to have the name OFP stuck on it.

[andersson 285]

If you are judging arma and arma2 on the main campaign only it can explain your views, but as a sandbox military simulator with endless possibilities of creating your own scenarious arma(2) truly are the successors.

So yes, they deserv it. But that is not the big deal, the bid deal is when a shooter takes the name and sell because of the name not the concept.

Come to think about it. What if CM managed to make a proper sequel being a true competitor for arma2 AND use the OFP name. I guess that would have been a serious kick to BIS balls... Luckilly they didnt make it.

Edited September 19, 2010 by andersson

[max power 21]

And ArmA deserves the OFP name more?

Neither game live up to the OFP name, and neither deserves it IMO. Sorry but, DR... well that needs no explination.

ArmA just doesn't have the campaign, the feeling nor the story. Neither really do fully deserve to have the name OFP stuck on it.

ArmA deserves the name more. Absolutely. Way more. ArmA lacks in story feel it but it expands on gameplay, mission editting, and modding concepts.

FPDR expands on...

???

[nodunit 397]

Hmm, I agree. CWC was a great game. I don't know why everyone spams facepalm pics at anyone who goes "CM and BIS working together would be better", because its true.

That time has come and gone, even if the two managed to somehow get together there would most likely be many restrictions in place, funding to further advance the game might even be cut shorter if the publisher is allowed the control, in short, BIS getting together with CM would more than likely be a disaster.

[ben_s 11]

ArmA deserves the name more. Absolutely. Way more. ArmA lacks in story feel it but it expands on gameplay, mission editting, and modding concepts.

FPDR expands on...

???

Fair point, I should have made my point clearer that neither ones really fully deserve the name OFP...

[nettrucker 142]

That time has come and gone, even if the two managed to somehow get together there would most likely be many restrictions in place, funding to further advance the game might even be cut shorter if the publisher is allowed the control, in short, BIS getting together with CM would more than likely be a disaster.

I agree with that. could we immagine an OFP/ArmA with no ME, no dedis, no PVP, and the list is just endless. BIS did right to stay away from CM.

Just my 2 cents.

kind regards

[Richey79 10]

The campaign lengths are far shorter, you hardly see the variety of mission types, and the character personalities are by comparison very narrow. ( James Gastovski, Robert Hammer, Victor Troska and David Armstrong, hell even Blake) The humor ... One of the absolute best things about CWC is the memorable characters and how they experienced a wide range of emotions, they actually seemed human

You describe the weaknesses we've had in the more recent Bis games - particularly in the SP campaigns - very well. A lack of the right sort of humour and knowing when to take things seriously. A poorer sense of timing and less human elements.

I don't know why this change of tone for the worse. A result of the first game's success? Because the world has changed and Bis wanted to make games reference more contemporary conflicts? Bis as a company has more people and a different dynamic? As a more amateurish outfit, they could get away with taking more risks and a more human approach?

I have a feeling we're not gonna get another CWC until this dispute between BIS and CM is settled and they get back together to create the first, proper OFP since CWC and RH.

You really think CM is in any way, shape or form similar to the company it was in 2001?

The question of how Bis' games would be different if they were to collaborate with any big-budget publisher is one we can't answer. I personally think we'd be reading threads like this if they were to give up their operational freedom.

The only real changes would be that they would give up control of their own PR, they'd suddenly be forced to stick to completely arbitrary, short deadlines (remember the early German release of Arma 2 to see how well that goes), and a bean-counter would be in charge of deciding which features were left in and which out. Oh, and forget seventeen full, free patches for Arma 1 and continuing to patch features into Arma 2 after the release of OA... .

[nodunit 397]

You describe the weaknesses we've had in the more recent Bis games - particularly in the SP campaigns - very well. A lack of the right sort of humour and knowing when to take things seriously. A poorer sense of timing and less human elements.

I don't know why this change of tone for the worse. A result of the first game's success? Because the world has changed and Bis wanted to make games reference more contemporary conflicts? Bis as a company has more people and a different dynamic? As a more amateurish outfit, they could get away with taking more risks and a more human approach?

I'm not sure, I see plenty of bricks (emotionless macho men) on console games and starting to see them in one of my favorite series is somewhat disturbing, the conflict I'm fine with, I just wish the characters had more personality again..To see some fear, a playful side that isn't juvenile, perhaps some sadness and lament at the loss of a friend..OA, great of an addition as it is, and nice that the single player is diverse..just lacks humanity, everyone is in such a rush to get into the thick of things, you rarely if ever see much emotion..and the swearing, why all the swearing, I only recall a few swears in OFP and it was just Damn.

Edited September 19, 2010 by NodUnit

[Zipper5 74]

Fair point, I should have made my point clearer that neither ones really fully deserve the name OFP...

Ouch. You think the developer that created OFP doesn't deserve the name OFP? That's kind of harsh...

The difference here is that ArmA is ArmA. It does not have the name OFP, therefore to say that it does or does not deserve the name isn't right because it doesn't have it, and won't have it. It's it's own game, it's own brand. CM's OFP titles actually have the name and advertise it as an OFP game, and due to how they do not live up to the expectations of the name at all any more, they're the only ones in this situation that you can say don't deserve the OFP name, and I'd agree with you. ;)

Edited September 19, 2010 by Zipper5

[PuFu 4591]

Average Age of players on RR forums:

http://community.codemasters.com/forum/off-topic-discussion-1336/426484-average-age-players.html

:D

[Sith 0]

You really think CM is in any way, shape or form similar to the company it was in 2001?

This should basically round up the discussion. I'm not going to get involved in all the mud slinging around here, but it's rather endearing to see people project some sort of squishy "perfect romance" plot on BIS' and CM's work on CWC (which was less than a quarter of its development cycle, mind you), wishing for the two quarreling lovers to hook up again. Cute, but ultimately somewhat naive.

Only a very small number (if any) of the CM staff involved with BIS/CWC back in 2000-2001 still works for them. 10 years is a hell of a long time in game dev country, and many people in creative positions rarely spend even half that timeframe at one single company. You move on, looking for different projects and opportunities at different companies. There is no absolute and persistent entity behind the name "Codemasters", or even BIS for that matter (although we have a few hardliners :p). While it might come as a bit of a surprise to some of you, the same thing also applies to the latter company. All elements of the BIS team have seen changes small and large between the development of CWC, Resistance, Elite, ArmA, ArmA II and Arrowhead.

And it's a good thing, as it fuels innovation, fresh ideas. It might not always work out as well as you hoped, but that's one of the risks of working in a dynamic and creative industry. You meet inspiring new people, you learn, you create something beautiful together, you move on. There are so many factors flying in and out of this process, it's nearly impossible to identify and secure all ingredients for "the perfect project".

[nodunit 397]

Average Age of players on RR forums:

http://community.codemasters.com/forum/off-topic-discussion-1336/426484-average-age-players.html

:D

That's vague, 18 or under could mean anything..and besides, many of us were in early, mid or late teens when we played Operation Flashpoint, I know twenty to thirty year old men that play battlefield and cal of duty games with gusto. Age isn't something worth slander for this type of situation.

And less than a quarter? Well I guess I'll be taking my head out of my bottom then.

And finally, thats quite a story..I recall reading the one from the old website but it wasn't as in depth as this.

Edited September 19, 2010 by NodUnit

[Zipper5 74]

Great post, Sith. I remember back then, before Codemasters. Hell, before, OFP was just called Flash Point and it was gonna be published by Ubisoft. I think that may have turned out even worse in the future if you look at what they've done to their Tom Clancy games. :p

To be honest I don't believe that if CM and BIS were working on DR or RR it would have suddenly made everything magically better. I think CM would have become the exact same sorry excuse for a company they are now and probably do the same damage to the OFP name, just this time BIS would have been legally obligated to put up with it...

[PuFu 4591]

Mind you i am 24 now, and have played OFP since its demo release. Bought all the releases out there, including the Goty. With simple math, i was 13-14 back then.

Still, what i want to point out though is that the most of the members around here today where not over 18 back then. Still, i think you can't really compare what was going on in terms of gaming 10 years back with what is going on today. Most of ppl my age got to play on a HC, or at least from DOS prompt.

I don't want to start another argument about the age here, but a very simple comparison puts A2 average player around 28-30 years old IRC.

Most of kids today haven't got to play anything else besides the mainstream games released for consoles, they have no comparison to make with games that changed or defined this entertainment sector.

The most wanted feature of all for todays game is graphics. Not the amount of features available, re-playability, innovative gameplay, storyline etc. I guess one of the reasons is the lack of time each one of us has to put into this hobby. There is a lot easier to open the console, play some *insert generic mainstream here* for 30 mins or so, then go to bed or watch a movie.

For me at least, it is very important what is the target audience for a game developer company, especially of that has multiplayer..That way i will know what to expect from it (different players have different expectations, and it is age related as well, since as i have already said, younger lads, although some might be very mature and alike, cannot compare with say, rainbow six - the one released in 1998)

PS: great post Sith.

Edited September 19, 2010 by PuFu

[ProfTournesol 956]

Mind you i am 24 now, and have played OFP since its demo release. Bought all the releases out there, including the Goty. With simple math, i was 13-14 back then.

Still, what i want to point out though is that the most of the members around here today where not over 18 back then. Still, i think you can't really compare what was going on in terms of gaming 10 years back with what is going on today. Most of ppl my age got to play on a HC, or at least from DOS prompt.

I don't want to start another argument about the age here, but a very simple comparison puts A2 average player around 28-30 years old IRC.

Most of kids today haven't got to play anything else besides the mainstream games released for consoles, they have no comparison to make with games that changed or defined this entertainment sector.

The most wanted feature of all for todays game is graphics. Not the amount of features available, re-playability, innovative gameplay, storyline etc. I guess one of the reasons is the lack of time each one of us has to put into this hobby. There is a lot easier to open the console, play some *insert generic mainstream here* for 30 mins or so, then go to bed or watch a movie.

For me at least, it is very important what is the target audience for a game developer company, especially of that has multiplayer..That way i will know what to expect from it (different players have different expectations, and it is age related as well, since as i have already said, younger lads, although some might be very mature and alike, cannot compare with say, rainbow six - the one released in 1998)

From my point of view, at 24 you're still a kid.

[PuFu 4591]

From my point of view, at 24 you're still a kid.

Thank you, i take that as a compliment :P

[Zipper5 74]

OA honestly looks like overpriced waste of space. It has a few nice features. But meh, not alot good about it as far as i've seen.

Not that many new games really seem worth the price they're making you pay.

Guess you don't actually want OA then, Ben. :rolleyes:

For the record, OA has more features on its own than DR did and RR will. Says a lot, no?

[ben_s 11]

This should basically round up the discussion. I'm not going to get involved in all the mud slinging around here, but it's rather endearing to see people project some sort of squishy "perfect romance" plot on BIS' and CM's work on CWC (which was less than a quarter of its development cycle, mind you), wishing for the two quarreling lovers to hook up again. Cute, but ultimately somewhat naive.

Only a very small number (if any) of the CM staff involved with BIS/CWC back in 2000-2001 still works for them. 10 years is a hell of a long time in game dev country, and many people in creative positions rarely spend even half that timeframe at one single company. You move on, looking for different projects and opportunities at different companies. There is no absolute and persistent entity behind the name "Codemasters", or even BIS for that matter (although we have a few hardliners :p). While it might come as a bit of a surprise to some of you, the same thing also applies to the latter company. All elements of the BIS team have seen changes small and large between the development of CWC, Resistance, Elite, ArmA, ArmA II and Arrowhead.

And it's a good thing, as it fuels innovation, fresh ideas. It might not always work out as well as you hoped, but that's one of the risks of working in a dynamic and creative industry. You meet inspiring new people, you learn, you create something beautiful together, you move on. There are so many factors flying in and out of this process, it's nearly impossible to identify and secure all ingredients for "the perfect project".

Good post, That clears alot of it up. Thanks for that.

p.s. The computer downstairs has a Intel Pentium Core2 E2160, @ 1.80 GHz.... Thinking of taking out it out with its MB and PSU to put in mine. (thinking) So.. Hopefully will get around to playing A2 properly.

---------- Post added at 03:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:17 PM ----------

Guess you don't actually want OA then, Ben. :rolleyes:

For the record, OA has more features on its own than DR did and RR will. Says a lot, no?

Well, OA would be nice. But I've not seen enough features to make it worth the money it costs over here. I mean, BAF price as well as the game. Once the price lowers its worth it im sure. But not at the price it is here. 20 quid plus the whatever ammount for BAF... Once it all lowers so the total price is 20 quid or so... Then I will.

Just, Overpriced for what little it brings. Considering community mods also added most of the features before hand. Though, I will still most likley get it. Once i've upgraded. But, Just a bit overpriced.

[ProfTournesol 956]

Thank you, i take that as a compliment :P

You can. I meant that the age doesn't really matter, but the maturity does. Ben_S is very young and i don't share his point of view most of the time, but he seems very mature. And (very) young people are more (too much ?) mature nowadays than they used to be before.

[andersson 285]

Well, OA would be nice. But I've not seen enough features to make it worth the money it costs over here. I mean, BAF price as well as the game. Once the price lowers its worth it im sure. But not at the price it is here. 20 quid plus the whatever ammount for BAF... Once it all lowers so the total price is 20 quid or so... Then I will.

Just, Overpriced for what little it brings. Considering community mods also added most of the features before hand. Though, I will still most likley get it. Once i've upgraded. But, Just a bit overpriced.

Its worth it believe me. Its, more or less, the features that were missing from VBS2. Proper FLIR, lasers on weapons, NV in scopes (not possible to use NV-goggles and look through scopes), back-up sights for CQB, backpacks, deployable weapons, better radar, countermeasures, ULB + scripting commands + things I missed.. Not mentioning the units, islands and missions.. And you get that for a price less than a normal game.

It can still be expensive if your short on money, but if you compare what you get and what you pay its worth it no doubt.

[ben_s 11]

Its worth it believe me. Its, more or less, the features that were missing from VBS2. Proper FLIR, lasers on weapons, NV in scopes (not possible to use NV-goggles and look through scopes), back-up sights for CQB, backpacks, deployable weapons, better radar, countermeasures, ULB + scripting commands + things I missed.. Not mentioning the units, islands and missions.. And you get that for a price less than a normal game.

It can still be expensive if your short on money, but if you compare what you get and what you pay its worth it no doubt.

Ok .... I will rethink my thoughts over... But I still think its overpriced for what little it gives you that the community doesn't already give for free.

[PuFu 4591]

Anyways, by far the best deal is the CO pack.

OA : 30EUs - Sprocket

A2: 35 EUs - Sprocket

CO(A2+OA): 40 EUs - Sprocket

@Tournesol:

While i agree, the people like Ben_S, Zipper5 etc are the exceptions.

And i don't really agree with the fact that younger people nowadays are more mature than persons same ages say 20 years ago..

Anyways, lets just skip the subject for now

Ok .... I will rethink my thoughts over... But I still think its overpriced for what little it gives you that the community doesn't already give for free.

That is true to some extent. Even though some engine limitations are hard to go around by the community. So the features in OA makes community work easier, so they can bring even more to the table than before.

Edited September 19, 2010 by PuFu

[ben_s 11]

Anyways, by far the best deal is the CO pack.

OA : 30EUs - Sprocket

A2: 35 EUs - Sprocket

CO(A2+OA): 40 EUs - Sprocket

@Tournesol:

While i agree, the people like Ben_S, Zipper5 etc are the exceptions.

And i don't really agree with the fact that younger people nowadays are more mature than persons same ages say 20 years ago..

Anyways, lets just skip the subject for now

Hmmm, OA+BAF pack is still going to be alot of money (for me). Hence why I will see things as overpriced when you wont. lol

OA+BAF is going to be about £35, which Is still too high for me. :P

I will wait for a steam deal or something.

---------- Post added at 03:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:50 PM ----------

That is true to some extent. Even though some engine limitations are hard to go around by the community. So the features in OA makes community work easier, so they can bring even more to the table than before.

Yeah, I never got into modding A2... So those details go over my head. But, Yeah, I guess your right there.

[CW001 10]

Hmmm, OA+BAF pack is still going to be alot of money (for me). Hence why I will see things as overpriced when you wont. lol

OA+BAF is going to be about £35, which Is still too high for me. :P

I will wait for a steam deal or something.

---------- Post added at 03:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:50 PM ----------

Yeah, I never got into modding A2... So those details go over my head. But, Yeah, I guess your right there.

OA + BAF is ectually £23 , if I recall correctly.

http://www.play.com/Games/PC/4-/15502389/Arma-II-Operation-Arrowhead/Product.html

OA is £15 at Play (with free delivery!!!1), and BAF is £7 or thereabouts on Sprocket:

http://tinyurl.com/3yg94r2

And is it just me or does the soldier guy on the top left of sprocket look hilariously constipated?

Edited September 19, 2010 by CW001
WTF happened thar?

[andersson 285]

I remember that CM wasnt allowed to use Operation Flashpoint 2 as that implied a sequel, which it wasnt, and thats why they came up with Operation Flashpoint: Dragon Rising. What happened to that considering the number 3 in RR? Just wondering.

http://www.joystiq.com/2009/02/28/codies-new-operation-flashpoint-not-a-sequel-original-dev-in/