CM Operation Flashpoint 3 announced | "Oops, they're doing it again..."

[solidsnake2384 10]

I meant to say that it was only the first 10 minutes of the game that I watched. Not that the cursing was every other word for the first ten minutes.

I was just so surprised that those ten minutes, which was the beginning of the campaign, included so many expletives.

Maybe they wanted it to be like Full Metal Jacket......?

[4 IN 1 0]

Well that would be an insult to full metal jacket :/

[nethawk 10]

Maybe they wanted it to be like Full Metal Jacket......?

Please don't give them ideas :P

I played Dragon Rising, and while it's not OFP, it's an "ok" shooter, so I was kinda looking forward to atleast try RR, and saw the first ten minutes of gameplay (guess everyone did), I was destroyed. I mean seriously?

I don't mind the swearing, and heroic BS talk, but....a crosshair? no aiming? WTF? running towards your enemy, gunz blazing?....jesus...

It makes me a sad panda, but when even Battlefield and CoD are more realistic then a OFP title, it's a day to lower the flag, and abandon ship.

Good thing only BIS kept at it, with the ArmA series, and while most of us will cry over the title, let's not forget, OFP is just a name, The Content is BIS.

[Innomadic 10]

How one can contemplate creating a clan around a game that only supports 4 players at a time (on an unreliable connection) is beyond me...

Also Sion did say that FMJ, Generation Kill were influences in the "authenticity"...

edit: Perhaps the only thing from DR that BIS can learn from is the terrain, and honestly the terrain was bloody awesome, credit where credits due. Lots of dried up creek beds and undulations in the topography to jump in/behind when taking fire, THAT was good. Pity the rest was sub-standard.

[ricbar89 0]

I laughed pretty hard when I saw this:

[YOUTUBE]auJP1P_4sVk

Although in fairness i think the music was one of the best parts of RR. The theme is pretty catchy.

[JdB 151]

The excessive amount of swearing is ironically one of the only realistic aspects of the game, soldiers swear a lot, especially in combat. Not on radio comms though, so any idea of realism is lost because of the childish implementation of the swearing by extending it to all ranks, and not just the people in the same unit.

[Baff1 0]

How one can contemplate creating a clan around a game that only supports 4 players at a time (on an unreliable connection) is beyond me...

Also Sion did say that FMJ, Generation Kill were influences in the "authenticity"...

edit: Perhaps the only thing from DR that BIS can learn from is the terrain, and honestly the terrain was bloody awesome, credit where credits due. Lots of dried up creek beds and undulations in the topography to jump in/behind when taking fire, THAT was good. Pity the rest was sub-standard.

The shooting mechanics were fine, the movement was fluid. The AI was simple but fit for purpose. There weren't too many keys. The vehicle physics were excellent, the netcode was rock solid, the frame rates didn't drop. The level up system between levels was rewarding.

There are many things about this game that were as they should be and a few things they did that BIS could learn from.

[JdB 151]

The shooting mechanics were fine dumbed down so humans had an enormous advantage, the movement was unrealistically fluid and soldiers could run like a Usain Bolt clone with 45kg on their bodies. The AI was simple but fit for purpose and no challenge what so ever because of the instant-heal packs. There weren't too many keys features. The vehicle physics on the few vehicles that were included were excellent, but not if they engine the game is running on is that of a racing game, the netcode was rock solid. but what else did you expect for a maximum of 4 players, the frame rates didn't drop, because the game lacks detail, and frame rate drop is a no-no for console gaming. The level up system between levels was rewarding fine for CoD players who's only worry when gaming is to show off how much more 1337 they are than everyone else.

I fixed your post for those among us who are not on CM's fanmail list ;)

Edited July 7, 2011 by JdB

[Baff1 0]

Frame rate drop is a no no for all gamers matey not just consolers.

The Frame rate drop in ArmA is not caused by highres textures, it is caused by inferior streaming technology. Poor memory management. OpF DR and RR, both manage it better.

If you sped up the soldiers run in ArmA, this would not make their movement more fluid. It would only make it faster. ArmA in CQB is clunky. You step left, you stepped a little bit too far so you step right to get that sweet spot aiming out the window, but you stepped a little bit too far right, so you lean a bit... in OpF DR and RR, it's fluid. You get it exactly the way you want it, first time every time. No piddling around. Fluid, like crysis, like Quake, like Rainbow Six, like GR.

This is realism. I do the same in real life. I do not collide with door frames, catch my gun on the wall while turning round etc. (At least not when I am sober).

I too would have preferred more vehicles in RR, but that really doesn't change that they have got it right in a way that so many games have but ArmA 2 still hasn't.

The level up system allows you to develop your characters inbetween screens. It's a tried and tested game mechanic as old as Dungeons and Dragons. It has little to do with online bragging and lots to do with resource management and character development as a means to maintain intrest in a game and add replayability to it. It's an incentive system.

The netcode with only 4 players is noticeably superior to the netcode in ArmA 2 which plays through it's campaign with only 4 players also.

I would certainly agree that the heal mechanic, while more playable than ArmA's really isn't as satisfying to use due to ArmA's great animations.

It is however, fit for purpose. It keeps the game rolling. While I enjoyed the RR campaign, I didn't enjoy it so much that I would be willing to keep saving and loading all the time all through it, each of the very many times I got shot.

Edited July 7, 2011 by Baff1

[ACPL Jon 68]

Baff, You're a troll, aren't You?

I'm one of those unique few, who didn't completely wipe their ass off with this game, but what You did write is unacceptable, not to say "utter bullshit".

How dare You comparing this mediocore CORRIDOR\ARENA SHOOTER to the open game world with civilians, animals, dynamic lightning (!), dynamic weather, dynamic viewdistance, every object destructable, every vehicle drivable IN EVERY MOMENT, NOT ONLY IN ONE GAME MODE, with EPIC editor and which easily runs fluidly with around 200-300 units (if we don't talk about epic scripted mission engines like Domi) on the map with a 2 year old PC, producing many scripted and non-scripted events, letting You play comfortably up to 40-50 players... how... how dare You?

This shit games You mentioned "handle memory better"? Are You f... kidding me? I saw it running on the PC unit which can run ArmA 2 on medium settings in battles and missions much much bigger (up to 150 AI's in coop with ~20 players) then those in DR\RR. RR? Guy had to reset the coligation every time to don't have a slideshow, comp was running loud like a tractor and he had to turn the game to medium settings so it runs kinda smooth. Even with that it was 10 times more clunky (movement) and "too far to the right, one step too many to the left" and similiar problems which You accuse ArmA 2 of. It's not fluid like You say (it's a lie), not to mention YOU CAN'T CROUCH THROUGHOUT THE RELOAD ANIMATION ;] unless You move. That's realism? That's bullshit sir.

Don't even try to mention "RR can do X better then ArmA 2" because it can't, except reload animations and having fun within 30 minutes (if You can accept it's numerous problems and limitations) opposed to arma which is better for longer and more engaging sessions. Even ragdoll isn't better, I saw arms sticking through the wall and stuck in the doors, also it has been changed from kinda-good game-beta state (youtube videos from previous E3 or some other "con").

And well, that pretty much sums up my outburst. I can't stand when people post things far from truth acting like it's all the opposite :)

Edited July 8, 2011 by JonPL

[froggyluv 2136]

Hehe, he did the exact same thing for DR.

Game, or little that I played of it was utterly forgettable. That first convoy mission and following bridge attack mission in which I found you couldn't move 5-10 M away from where your supposed to be - was all the hand holding I needed to see. Some people like being led and told what to do I suppose, no surprise that people who support Arma would not find appealing.

All and all, I'd say CM is done for the most part with their attempts at a mil/sim, *erhm*, tac shooter, *cough* army shooter. The game seems to have missed their sales mark and user base is pretty disgusted.

Ah well, just another crouton in the salad bowl of life...

Edited July 8, 2011 by froggyluv

[Baff1 0]

I think if you enjoyed games like ArmA or Battlefield, then RR is pretty much pitched squarely at your alley.

A solid army game title.

DR was an OK game,better than expected even. But this one for me is signifcantly better than that. a good one.

Baff, You're a troll, aren't You?

If I am, that would make you a fanboy.

If you think for a moment that I post on these forums to elicite your angry responses rather than to express my opinion to people who have a good idea of what intrests me, you have lost the plot.

Decently priced playable LAN games are too few and far between for me to start ignoring games of this genre becuase i get trolled for liking it on the ArmA forums.

Obviously I held very low expectations for game built on a racing car engine designed for consoles with 512 RAM to make a game with enormous streaming world maps. But credit where credit is due. What they did is very good. Technically speaking, even if the art design is not to ones tastes.

I'm actually very impressed with the RR engine. It's not some peice of crap, it's a well developed piece of technology that has been used in a good many top selling titles.

Codemasters is a big company these days, they can have put a lot of man hours into that engine.

And yes, there are a few things it does much better than ARmA does. Get over it.

It's not like you have to get butt sore about it. You can list a gazillion things that ArmA does better than it if you so please. We all can.

Memory management is not one of those however. ArmA streaming technology is slightly sub par. WoW, RR, Crysis, Fallout... they all do it better.

You can greatly mitigate this and enhance your ArmA experience by using more RAM, RAM Drives and Solid State Drives as I do.

I'm suprised that you feel ArmA has fluid movement. CQB in ArmA is the games weakest point, it's just not fluid enough. You really feel the clunks.

This is a pretty commonly stated shortcoming of the ArmA series. I think if you could get past your outrage of someone not joining in your Codemaster bashing for just one moment you may be more inclined to agree.

Edited July 8, 2011 by Baff1

[maturin 12]

WoW, RR, Crysis, Fallout.

Only one of those games comes remotely close to shouldering Arma's burden. You don't get called a troll for making valid criticisms, you get called a troll for making baseless assertions calculated to hit sensitive areas.

[Baff1 0]

In this thread you pretty much get called a troll for anything short of calling for codemasters deaths.

My comments are not designed to hit your sensetive areas. You are simply being over sensetive. Neither are my assertions baseless. Thank you very much. I make the effort to explain them in detail, complete with multiple examples where possible.

This thread is just the worst the ArmA community has to offer, that's all.

You know, I thought as you did. But in the end, it's not the burden that counts, it's the gamplay.

If those others do more with less, or do enough with less, that's O.K. in fact that's more than OK, that's smart.

I fully recognise that ARMA for example really pushes the boundaries of my PC power, and I love it for that, but on the otherhand, everything RR does, it can do in 512 RAM. On a console.

It's no slouch technologically.

Despite that ArmA processes more than games designed for lower specs, console games and Wow for example, it simply does not do it as well. Their streaming technology is far more seamless.

If ArmA is shouldering too large a burden... then that is not something to cheer about.

It's a compromise ArmA makes for larger more open maps that games with smaller maps don't really have to.

Or at least, you would think this is the case... until you play the original OpF flash, or a fan made map that is nothing like so burdensome and the same sorts of memory performance is experienced.

Others engines do streaming better.

There are not many areas of ArmA that on their own are outstanding features of excellence. ArmA's primary strength, is not the superiority of any one feature, but the sheer number of features it includes.

So don't be "sensetive" please. if I point out area's where ArmA can see improvement or is surpassed by it's competition. There are very many of them. Try and remember this game is a complete package.

Edited July 8, 2011 by Baff1

[solidsnake2384 10]

DR was an OK game,better than expected even.

Obvious troll.

It was expected to have PvP, a mission editor, demo before release, free roam, dedicated servers, detailed vehicle interiors, and animations on all platforms but I know im missing other things. You cant even look around while driving/flying a vehicle! If you cant even do that then you know CM just didnt try or rushed things.

If having less features is better than expected, then DR is just awesome!

I cant talk about RR since I didnt play it and I didnt even bother with it (I already had Arma 2 CO, no point in getting RR) but from the reviews and reactions from it, its probably shit

For console gamers yes DR a good game. Probably as close to a simulator as they can get but its not a OFP. Shouldve just been called Dragon Rising.

[Nicholas 5]

I can't help but to agree. I bought Dragon Rising on Steam when it was $5.00. And it wasn't that bad. I never played past the first mission, but I played in the editor for a while and it wasn't that bad.

Although, it definitely was not as good as ArmA. ArmA is still, in my opinion, still 100x better and true to the original Operation Flashpoint.

I am still a Bohemia Interactive fan, but I don't have Codemasters. The GRID and the DiRT series are good games. And their attempt at Operation Flashpoint wasn't that bad.

But as I said, the original OFP and ArmA are 100x better. Both games have their ups and downs.

Edited July 8, 2011 by Nicholas

[Innomadic 10]

No, DR is smooth because there is NO detail. The grass is 1 dimensional, does not interact with the player at all, has extremely low detail and is the ONLY kind of grass in the game. Ground textures are an abysmal mess of undefined greens and brown.

Gameplay mechanics are fluid because they're complete BS. You can't sprint sideways and shoot accurately, its impossible. Enemy movement is also just as poor as they can switch between strafing left and right without so much as a blink to avoid bullets.

PvP didn't work, full stop. DR forums confirm this, you lie.

Also vehicles physics were excellent? Excuse me? You can't turn a corner in a Humvee without spinning out of control. Again, lies.

Weapon unlocks and perks? Please, Arma isn't CoD, no one here limits weapon selection to those who have played the game for a certain amount of hours unless you're an avid Armory player.

The terrain is the only thing that can be done better in Arma. That is ALL. There is NOTHING else that Arma doesn't currently do better.

edit: GRID is a poor sequel to V8 Supercars, absolutely poor.

[jw custom 56]

I think if you enjoyed games like ArmA or Battlefield, then RR is pretty much pitched squarely at your alley.

A solid army game title.

DR was an OK game,better than expected even. But this one for me is signifcantly better than that. a good one.

If I am, that would make you a fanboy.

If you think for a moment that I post on these forums to elicite your angry responses rather than to express my opinion to people who have a good idea of what intrests me, you have lost the plot.

Decently priced playable LAN games are too few and far between for me to start ignoring games of this genre becuase i get trolled for liking it on the ArmA forums.

Obviously I held very low expectations for game built on a racing car engine designed for consoles with 512 RAM to make a game with enormous streaming world maps. But credit where credit is due. What they did is very good. Technically speaking, even if the art design is not to ones tastes.

I'm actually very impressed with the RR engine. It's not some peice of crap, it's a well developed piece of technology that has been used in a good many top selling titles.

Codemasters is a big company these days, they can have put a lot of man hours into that engine.

And yes, there are a few things it does much better than ARmA does. Get over it.

It's not like you have to get butt sore about it. You can list a gazillion things that ArmA does better than it if you so please. We all can.

Memory management is not one of those however. ArmA streaming technology is slightly sub par. WoW, RR, Crysis, Fallout... they all do it better.

You can greatly mitigate this and enhance your ArmA experience by using more RAM, RAM Drives and Solid State Drives as I do.

I'm suprised that you feel ArmA has fluid movement. CQB in ArmA is the games weakest point, it's just not fluid enough. You really feel the clunks.

This is a pretty commonly stated shortcoming of the ArmA series. I think if you could get past your outrage of someone not joining in your Codemaster bashing for just one moment you may be more inclined to agree.

Omfg consolemasters hacked his account :eek:

[solidsnake2384 10]

I went on the CM RR forums and in the thread on remaking CWC a CM fanboy said theres no graphical enhancement from CWC and CW Rearmed 2 even when a video was shown to him the changes of it.

Again, im so glad Im a PC gamer.

[dmarkwick 261]

I fully recognise that ARMA for example really pushes the boundaries of my PC power, and I love it for that, but on the otherhand, everything RR does, it can do in 512 RAM. On a console.

It's no slouch technologically.

I think the main issue is not what it can do in 512mb, but what it cannot do compared to the much older Operation Flashpoint original. The new one is simply a linear shooter, nothing more. Literally, nothing more. Great graphics, carefully molded situations, led from one game area to another game area with no scope for breaking out, is the anathema to the capabilities of OFP.

And OFP worked in a hell of a lot less than 512mb. A good looking linear blast but with no real replayability or flexibility? Great for some.

Despite that ArmA processes more than games designed for lower specs, console games and Wow for example, it simply does not do it as well. Their streaming technology is far more seamless.

Fallout 3 might be the only game I'd agree has better streaming technology. But you know, it's only visual, and by "better" I mean appropriate for the game. I know that F3 has some amount of logic in moving gameworld characters about, but I would say that it pales into comparison compared to the detailed AI abilities of ArmA2, where a battle 5km away can be simulated as though you were there to see it.

None of the above happens in (the new) OFP. It just leads you about to shoot things, which better games can do better.

Edited July 8, 2011 by DMarkwick

[nettrucker 142]

So don't be "sensetive" please. if I point out area's [where ArmA can see improvement or is surpassed by it's competition. There are very many of them. .

Dude ArmA has no competition, at least for the time being. It's not a perfect game but it's lightyears ahead of any other crappy wargame you find on the market.

Now you can call me a fanboy, I'm not taking offence.:D

kind regards

[instagoat 133]

Dude ArmA has no competition, at least for the time being. It's not a perfect game but it's lightyears ahead of any other crappy wargame you find on the market.

Now you can call me a fanboy, I'm not taking offence.:D

kind regards

I agree with this. I think you could almost go as far as calling Arma a genresetter, much like GTA is not entirely a game series, but a genre. (As the makers of Saints Row have claimed.)

On top of that, it´s also completely alone in its niche. The only games Arma is competing against are earlier releases. A2 competed against A1, while A1 was released too late for OFP having a chance to compete against it. OF:DR was an attempt to tap into the genre of open world battlefield simulator, and it failed.

RR isn´t even in that genre anymore, instead occupying the same niche as the more recent Ghost Recon games. Tactical shooter or something.

I don´t know how well Arma would handle competition. It could either be for the better, causing BI to try and evolve the concept further, or it could shoot the whole thing down because the competing games are just that much better. That´s all hypothetical now though... Arma 3 seems to have some improvements, but right now I´m not sure if it´ll be radical enough to be interesting to the casual gamer market (which is small on PC platforms too, at least compared to the console market.)

[Baff1 0]

I went on the CM RR forums and in the thread on remaking CWC a CM fanboy said theres no graphical enhancement from CWC and CW Rearmed 2 even when a video was shown to him the changes of it.

Again, im so glad Im a PC gamer.

The fanboys on that sight are just like the fanboys on this sight, and indeed fanboys everywhere.

---------- Post added at 01:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:52 PM ----------

Dude ArmA has no competition, at least for the time being. It's not a perfect game but it's lightyears ahead of any other crappy wargame you find on the market.

Now you can call me a fanboy, I'm not taking offence.:D

kind regards

While that may be so, there are plenty of other wargame titles that I play. I still enjoy them.

Some of them are most excellent indeed. Some of them are pretty good, some of them are just fleeting fun.

I'm not the sort of person to play one title to the exclusivity of all others.

There are also some wargames that I consider to be every bit as good as the ArmA series, Men of War and Company of Heroes for example, Total War. H&D2.

I don't feel ArmA 2 to be ahead of these titles. Diferent, yes, ahead.. no.

I do feel that the Codemasters OpF series is in direct competion with ArmA as it is squarely targeted at the same audience. As such it will raise the bar and force it's rival to raise theres.

It doesn't have to "win" or be the best to improve the genre for everyone. It just has to compete.

In my opinion there is room inthe market for far more than two titles like this.

I can't help but wonder what has happened to Novalogic.

Edited July 8, 2011 by Baff1

[nettrucker 142]

I agree with this. I think you could almost go as far as calling Arma a genresetter, much like GTA is not entirely a game series, but a genre. (As the makers of Saints Row have claimed.)

On top of that, it´s also completely alone in its niche. The only games Arma is competing against are earlier releases. A2 competed against A1, while A1 was released too late for OFP having a chance to compete against it. OF:DR was an attempt to tap into the genre of open world battlefield simulator, and it failed.

RR isn´t even in that genre anymore, instead occupying the same niche as the more recent Ghost Recon games. Tactical shooter or something.

I don´t know how well Arma would handle competition. It could either be for the better, causing BI to try and evolve the concept further, or it could shoot the whole thing down because the competing games are just that much better. That´s all hypothetical now though... Arma 3 seems to have some improvements, but right now I´m not sure if it´ll be radical enough to be interesting to the casual gamer market (which is small on PC platforms too, at least compared to the console market.)

I personally believe that ArmA isn't a game which appeals to the casual gamer and it never will. Furthermore I believe that you gonna love ArmA or hate it. If you get hooked than it's going to be very hard to like other fps. I played from COD to MOH . . . Vietcong all kinds of wargames but i can't get the same satisfaction out of other mainstream games. Moreover I'm happy that BIS is sticking to their roots without being tempted to develope games for a quick buck.

What I hate in CM is their business ethics. They'll never see one single cent from me. I will never support a company which is screwing over their customers and drop support after a month of release. :mad:

Look at the CM forums man . . . a dozen post per day, the community is split in people liking RR and people really disliking it. The devs are gone and not even answering 1 single question. Not that they did much better before. Anyway OFP is dead since a long time . . . let's say since CM took over. I think they deserve what is happening over there.

Once more it was a hell of a fail and you know what it gives me an immense satisfaction, when reading CM forums on a daily basis.

cheers

p.s.

I do feel that the Codemasters OpF series is in direct competion with ArmA as it is squarely targeted at the same audience. As such it will raise the bar and force it's rival to raise theres.

It doesn't have to "win" or be the best to improve the genre for everyone. It just has to compete.

In my opinion there is room inthe market for far more than two titles like this.

I disagree on your statement. Given the direction OFP has taken it might be considered a direct competition to COD or MOH but not ArmA. And for the fact of raising the bar, imo the opposite happened. They stripped down the OFP franchise from everything that the game stood for in the past and made it great . . . so much for raising the bar.

I'm happy for you that you like the new OFP franchise, at least you didn't waste your money on something that is not even subpar to the original which has been developed 10 years ago.

Currently there's no other infantry based wargame that can compete with ArmA and it's scale.

Just my 2 cents (keep the change)

regards

Edited July 8, 2011 by nettrucker
added post scriptum

[froggyluv 2136]

I do feel that the Codemasters OpF series is in direct competion with ArmA as it is squarely targeted at the same audience.

CM's series is DOA -sorry, but it's over.

Saying CM targets or appeals to the same market as Arma is like saying a McDonalds Big Mac appeals to the same market as a top gourmet chef -hungry people.

You lack nuance of thought if you really can't see the difference. And honestly some people only want a simple burger at times (or always) and thats fine - just please stop confusing the two.